Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Hybrid Bicycles
Reload this Page >

Hybrid or Roadie?

Notices
Hybrid Bicycles Where else would you go to discuss these fun, versatile bikes?

Hybrid or Roadie?

Old 11-27-12, 11:11 PM
  #1  
newbikermtb
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hybrid or Roadie?

I'm new to the biking world and picked up a cannondale trail 6 about 2 months ago. It comes with standard 26 X 2.1 MTB tires, and I've finished 2 X 200kms brevet rides on this bike.

I think it's time to up the game and attempt a 400KM brevet next month, but then I am thinking a MTB will be too much of a drag as my average speed during the first and second Brevet has been 13 and 14.38 miles per hour respectively.

I was considering replacing my tires with slick ones so as to save myself some money, but I am being recommended to buy a hybrid bike instead - something like a Trek 7.1FX or Trek 7.3FX that will add at least 3 miles per hour more to my average speed.

Any thoughts/suggestions from members here will be greatly appreciated.

Should I buy a hybrid or just go for a roadie - My understanding is that the hybrid is only to save money by not buying a roadie... is there any sense in buying a hybrid, when 6 months down, I might be looking for a roadie to attempt a 600 km brevet ?

Thanks

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
cannondaletrail6.jpg (95.4 KB, 28 views)
newbikermtb is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 11:24 PM
  #2  
creonte
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Sounds seriously like you should get a road bike.
creonte is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 01:28 AM
  #3  
a1penguin
Senior Member
 
a1penguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,190
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
If you want to get maximum speed gain, a road bike will give you more speed. Why? The riding position is more bent over and you have smaller profile and lower wind resistance. Road bike provide several hand positions and are more comfortable because you can change your riding position. Second, road bike generally have better and often narrower wheels. Road bikes are 23 or 25 mm wheels, while hybrids will often be 28mm or wider. And the wheel rims will be lighter and you need less energy to accelerate. The gearing on a mountain bike is very different that typical road bikes.

As you pointed out, hybrids are generally less expensive than road bikes. Perhaps you could put narrower slicks on your mountain bike and call it a day. I think that slicks on MTB should be comparable to hybrid, but a road bike might be faster. Do a few rides on your MTB, and then put some slicks on it and compare the speeds. If you think you are going to want a road bike in 6 months, a hybrid is a waste of money, unless you can find a used one that you could resell.
a1penguin is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 03:04 AM
  #4  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
for randonneuring (brevets), I'd be looking at a road bike like a surly long haul trucker something with longer wheel base relaxed geometry, and lugs to hold racks for the gear you need to travel with on long trips. the majority of modern road bikes are totally setup as race bikes, for speed in a peloton or time trial sprinting, and not as long distance bikes. one cue to look for at a road touring bike is how much room between the rear wheel and the seat tube, the race bike will have the bakc wheel right up against the seat post, while the touring frame will have 2-3 inches of clearance.. also a touring-oriented bike like the long haul trucker will let you mount a bigger tire, a lot of race oriented frames barely have room for a 25mm, and for randonneurring, you want a 28 or 32, but a /good/ one like a Continental Gatorskin, or a Vittoria Randonneur or Randonneur Hyper.

absolutely for sure get a proper fitting at the bike shop, find a fitter familiar with randonneur riding where you're riding for 2-3 days all day in a row, proper fit is critical.
pierce is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 07:37 AM
  #5  
SlimRider
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,804

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by creonte View Post
Sounds seriously like you should get a road bike.
Originally Posted by a1penguin View Post
If you want to get maximum speed gain, a road bike will give you more speed. Why? The riding position is more bent over and you have smaller profile and lower wind resistance. Road bike provide several hand positions and are more comfortable because you can change your riding position. Second, road bike generally have better and often narrower wheels. Road bikes are 23 or 25 mm wheels, while hybrids will often be 28mm or wider. And the wheel rims will be lighter and you need less energy to accelerate. The gearing on a mountain bike is very different that typical road bikes.

As you pointed out, hybrids are generally less expensive than road bikes. Perhaps you could put narrower slicks on your mountain bike and call it a day. I think that slicks on MTB should be comparable to hybrid, but a road bike might be faster. Do a few rides on your MTB, and then put some slicks on it and compare the speeds. If you think you are going to want a road bike in 6 months, a hybrid is a waste of money, unless you can find a used one that you could resell.
Originally Posted by pierce View Post
for randonneuring (brevets), I'd be looking at a road bike like a surly long haul trucker something with longer wheel base relaxed geometry, and lugs to hold racks for the gear you need to travel with on long trips. the majority of modern road bikes are totally setup as race bikes, for speed in a peloton or time trial sprinting, and not as long distance bikes. one cue to look for at a road touring bike is how much room between the rear wheel and the seat tube, the race bike will have the bakc wheel right up against the seat post, while the touring frame will have 2-3 inches of clearance.. also a touring-oriented bike like the long haul trucker will let you mount a bigger tire, a lot of race oriented frames barely have room for a 25mm, and for randonneurring, you want a 28 or 32, but a /good/ one like a Continental Gatorskin, or a Vittoria Randonneur or Randonneur Hyper.

absolutely for sure get a proper fitting at the bike shop, find a fitter familiar with randonneur riding where you're riding for 2-3 days all day in a row, proper fit is critical.
+1

Hey there, Newbikermtb!

A hybrid is just a bike with a combination of road bike and mountain bike features. You already have a mountain bike. You now can have the best of both world's by purchasing a road bike.

I would agree that for long distance, a touring road bike, with a longer wheel base, and a more relaxed geometry, would be your best candidate for a road bike. Most touring road bikes are made of chromoly steel and will most likely last for decades. Therefore, the wisest choice would be a touring bike that has functional and reliable components.
SlimRider is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 02:25 PM
  #6  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
I would agree that for long distance, a touring road bike, with a longer wheel base, and a more relaxed geometry, would be your best candidate for a road bike. Most touring road bikes are made of chromoly steel and will most likely last for decades. Therefore, the wisest choice would be a touring bike that has functional and reliable components.
indeed, yay for steel. My 1975 Motobecane, all Reynolds 531 double butted, lugged and hand brazed, still rides like a new bike (a /nice/ new bike). its been beat to crap.
pierce is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 04:19 PM
  #7  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I can't imagine doing 125 miles on a mountain bike or hybrid. I would recommend a road bike but not necessarily a touring bike unless you'll be loading the bike with a lot of heavy gear. There are a quite a few road bikes that come in a relaxed geometry with taller head tubes for a more upright position and a longer wheelbase for less twitchy handling. Just to name a few there's the Felt Z series, Cannondale Synapse, Trek Domane, Specialized Secteur or Roubaix (the carbon fiber version.) I just bought a brand new Roubaix and it's a pretty sweet bike. I have it setup in a more upright position than pictured below.


Last edited by Dunbar; 11-28-12 at 04:26 PM.
Dunbar is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 04:35 PM
  #8  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Brevets are multiday events, culminating in 1200km (750 mile) mega-rides that have to be completed in 90 hours (3.75 days). You need to carry everything you need on these (the brevet provides water at regular intervals but not much else). you don't need full touring/camping gear (they have hotels along the way for brief sleep stops) but you'll need various layers of clothing as you'll be riding at night, and energy bars etc (they do have a few en-route drops where they will bring your bag-o-goodies to replenish your supplies). you also should have a toolkit, spare parts, tubes, tires, etc.

a light rack is highly recommended...
pierce is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 05:23 PM
  #9  
SlimRider
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,804

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It would be convenient if you could find a road bike that could be equipped with a nice rack...

I don't think most road bikes come rack or fender ready...

However, almost all touring bikes are equipped in such a manner!
SlimRider is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 05:26 PM
  #10  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by pierce View Post
a light rack is highly recommended...
Couldn't you use one of these mounted to the seat post? There's nothing wrong with touring bikes but they aren't really intended for speed.



Last edited by Dunbar; 11-28-12 at 05:32 PM.
Dunbar is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 05:48 PM
  #11  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
brevets aren't about speed, they are about distance. typical brevet out west here, at least, has monster hills, so you'll want triple-ring gearing. this also says trekking/touring bike to me.

I think you'll find something like the surly long haul trucker would be a /perfect/ randonneur bike.

The roubaix style bikes are road racing bikes, while they are more relaxed than a criterium bike, they are still pretty short compared with a tourer.

a 58cm LHT has a 1067mm wheelbase. a 58cm roubaix elite has a 1029mm wheelbase, 38mm or 1.5 inches shorter.

pierce is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 03:49 AM
  #12  
johnread
Senior Member
 
johnread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 104

Bikes: Surly LHT, Pashley Guv'nor, Pilen Sport, and other stray pups

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I love these types of threads where we are seeing the great diversity in bikes! (BTW Dunbar, that is an awesome looking Roubaix!) I started with a Specialized Sirrus Limited (same frame as Dunbar's road bike version), and enjoyed the technology of the carbon frame and the road componentry. But ultimately, it handled a bit too quick for me - a bit twitchy for my recreational/fitness style. So I found a Specialized Crux Elite at my LBS and really appreciated the drop handlebars and wider tires. It's one of Specialized's cyclocross race bikes, but it's more comfortable (for me) than the Sirrus Limited, but still plenty fast on the road. I upgraded the tires to Schwalbe Marathon Supremes, and now this bike is just about perfect.

Specialized also makes the TriCross series, which began life as a cyclocross line, but has morphed into a "do everything" bike, with more relaxed geometry, rack and fender eyelets, etc. I think it could be the world's perfect bike for me if I ever get tired of the Crux.

Or maybe I should adopt the N+1 standard and begin a collection!

The Sirrus Limited:


... and the Crux Elite:
johnread is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 01:16 PM
  #13  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,317 Times in 827 Posts
Hybrid = flat bars + wider 700c tire capacity. a 'Cross bike' also uses that wheel size, but Drop bars.

Road bike, drop bars but not the capacity for wider tires. more like the Race Bikes.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 01:49 PM
  #14  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
there are plenty of hybrids with 26" tires too. specialized expedition and so forth.

btw. you left out 'trekking bike' aka long distance touring bikes, which are 700c that can take 35c or so tires but typically have either drop or 'trekking' bars, usually wide range triple gearing, but really aren't what I'd think of as hybrids.
pierce is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 06:22 PM
  #15  
Talldog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 463

Bikes: Several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Hybrid = flat bars + wider 700c tire capacity. a 'Cross bike' also uses that wheel size, but Drop bars.

Road bike, drop bars but not the capacity for wider tires. more like the Race Bikes.
Gawd, I wish the term "Hybrid" .... and these types of analyses, as pertaining to the bikes, would disappear from the face of the earth. I cannot imagine a moniker more lame for my favourite type of bike.
Talldog is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 06:28 PM
  #16  
SlimRider
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,804

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
Gawd, I wish the term "Hybrid" .... and these types of analyses, as pertaining to the bikes, would disappear from the face of the earth. I cannot imagine a moniker more lame for my favourite type of bike.

So Talldog,

Would you prefer not to classify it with a name, or would you choose another name altogether?
SlimRider is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 06:47 PM
  #17  
Talldog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 463

Bikes: Several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
So Talldog,

Would you prefer not to classify it with a name, or would you choose another name altogether?
Well ... there is my point exactly. Why the obsession with classifying "it" or pigeon holing it with a name in any way. People tweak all kinds of bikes to suit their needs. In recreational cycling, there is no significance to classifying categories whatsover.
Talldog is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 06:49 PM
  #18  
SlimRider
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,804

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
Well ... there is my point exactly. Why the obsession with classifying "it" or pigeon holing it with a name in any way. People tweak all kinds of bikes to suit their needs. In recreational cycling, there is no significance to classifying categories whatsover.
Well that sounds like a fair enough opinion!
SlimRider is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 07:07 PM
  #19  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
its handy to have a common vocabulary to describe things....

A: oh cool, you ride a bike? what kind?
B: um, its a flat bar 700c bike with medium tires and triple ring gearing.

or...

A: oh cool, you ride a bike? what kind?
B: a hybrid
pierce is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 07:35 PM
  #20  
SlimRider
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,804

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pierce View Post
its handy to have a common vocabulary to describe things....

A: oh cool, you ride a bike? what kind?
B: um, its a flat bar 700c bike with medium tires and triple ring gearing.

or...

A: oh cool, you ride a bike? what kind?
B: a hybrid
Yeah, I see your point...

Duh...But what if it's a flatbar, 26", double compact, with a suspended fork?

Last edited by SlimRider; 11-29-12 at 07:42 PM.
SlimRider is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 08:19 PM
  #21  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Yeah, I see your point...

Duh...But what if it's a flatbar, 26", double compact, with a suspended fork?
Attached Images
File Type: gif
kboom[1].gif (25.5 KB, 165 views)
pierce is offline  
Old 11-29-12, 09:04 PM
  #22  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Duh...But what if it's a flatbar, 26", double compact, with a suspended fork?
Converted mountain bike probably best describes it for "pedestrians."
Dunbar is offline  
Old 12-02-12, 05:29 PM
  #23  
Skinner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Id say get a road bike sized for a "French Fit"

THE FRENCH FIT

This fit is so named because of its legacy in the traditions of endurance road riding such as brevet rides and randonneuring. However, the French Fit isn't merely about touring, riding long, or even sitting more upright. It is about getting the most out of a bike that fits larger and provides much more comfort to the neck, back, and saddle position.While the Competitive Fit generally puts you on the smallest appropriate frame and the Eddy Fit sizes up a bit or raises the bars, the French Fit puts you on the largest appropriate frame. While this bucks some current conventional wisdom - and is, in fact, the least commonly used position of the three we espouse - it is still the position advocated by some of cycling's wisest and most experienced designers, who also happened to be riders who like to go fast and far with an ideal amount of comfort.

This fit features a taller front end (with a larger frame and/or head tube extension and stem), handlebar to saddle drops that are much closer to level, and favors riders who are looking to ease stress on the neck and back, ride as long and as far as they like, and are not concerned with the looking like an aggressive professional. In comparison to the Eddy Fit, the rider has even more weight rearward and a slightly more upright position such that "hands in the drops position" is close to the Competitive Fit's "hands on the hoods position." Some may say that this was not how modern race bikes were "meant" to fit but we have learned that the French Fit's size up tradition works great on the most modern bikes.

By increasing the frame size we raise the bars without radical riser stems and still create balance and proportion with respect to the important knee-to-pedal dynamic. It is important to remember that as frames get larger the top tube effectively shortens. This means that the longer top tube on a larger frame is appropriate because as the bars come "up" and the ratio of saddle to bar drop lessens, the rider achieves a "reach" from the saddle to the handlebars that is just right!

We recommend this fit for riders who really want to be comfortable and fast over longer distances. Please note that the French Fit disregards all emphasis on stand over height (standing with the bike between your legs and your shoes flat on the ground) because the French Fit school believes that this measurement has little actual value regarding fit. An ideal compromise for those who can't shed their concern regarding stand over height is the choice of a "sized up" compact design to achieve a higher relative handlebar position.

Nevertheless, a French Fit can work with traditional, non-sloping frames as well. As an example, a person who might ride a 55cm or 56cm frame to achieve the Competitive Fit, might ride as much as a 59cm or 60cm in the French Fit. While bikes in the French Fit are not the racer's fashion they tend to look elegant, well proportioned, and ride like a dream.
(copied from competitivecyclist.com fit calculator)

Thought it might be useful if you are looking for long distance specific bike.
Skinner is offline  
Old 12-02-12, 05:40 PM
  #24  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Skinner View Post
Id say get a road bike sized for a "French Fit"

(copied from competitivecyclist.com fit calculator)

Thought it might be useful if you are looking for long distance specific bike.

indeed. sounds exactly like that Surly I posted earlier in this thread.
pierce is offline  
Old 12-05-12, 03:19 PM
  #25  
kaliayev
Gouge Away
 
kaliayev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BFOH
Posts: 984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
A sport/tourer would be a better frame than a bike built for fully loaded touring like the LHT. There are a number of rando web sites and you can get a better idea of what the experience is like, what kind of gear you will need, and the type of bikes people use and how they build them up. The Long Distance section here is also a good source for endurance riding.
kaliayev is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Exemonium
Hybrid Bicycles
18
05-11-13 06:23 PM
albireo13
Hybrid Bicycles
53
04-04-11 12:09 PM
gbiker
General Cycling Discussion
8
08-22-10 07:45 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.