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Trainer causing poor shifting

Old 11-10-20, 10:21 PM
  #1  
yourrealdad
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Trainer causing poor shifting

Hello,

I have a Cycleops Hammer and after much wasted time I think I have concluded that the trainer itself is not allowing for correct shifting .

Has this been anyone else's experience?

I have a long story, but I am tired and have spent all day messing with it, but short story is my bike will not shift correctly on the trainer, but is smooth as butter with a regular road wheel in the stand.

Thoughts?

Thank you
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Old 11-11-20, 09:40 AM
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unterhausen
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Which cassette are you using on the trainer? Transfer the one from your wheel? Otherwise that could be the issue.
What bike are you using?


Cycleops has a website with a popover that doesn't go away on my browser. Nice web design.
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Old 11-12-20, 10:45 AM
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You don't say what your setup is on your bike vs. the trainer. Are you even using the same number of speeds? Same brand?

Assuming you are compatible, the likely cause is spacing of the cassette on the trainer. A second less likely cause is your derailleur capacity, but that would only happen if again you aren't using like and like.

Most people don't know that the spacing also changed for 11sp hubs. They are 131mm instead of the old 130. It doesn't sound like much but causes issues with shifting if the extra 1mm isn't accounted for if you have mismatched components. If you are all 11sp you should be good though.

And then there is thru axle, an entirely different standard, and on and on...
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Old 11-14-20, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
Hello,

I have a Cycleops Hammer and after much wasted time I think I have concluded that the trainer itself is not allowing for correct shifting .

Has this been anyone else's experience?
I just got a Kickr and it turns out my shifting is crap too. The last 3 or 4 sprockets are noisy, as if cross chaining, but not consistently. On the road, my gearing is, as you say, ďbutteryĒ. My only idea so far is that the 11-28 that comes with the Kickr isnít machined as smoothly as the Ultegra cassette, but I donít think thatís a likely explanation. Iím mostly just writing so that you know you arenít alone, and to tell you that I appreciate knowing from your post that I am not the only one with shifting problems.
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Old 11-15-20, 10:33 AM
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Maybe it would be better if they charged less and did not include the cassette so people could buy what they want. I have the Kickr Core and it does not come with a cassette. Everybody has their own preferences for these things, and even beyond preferences not everybody has 11sp Shimano either. I happen to still use 10sp Campy and that isn't compatible with anything else and I had to DIY my cassette to make it compatible.
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Old 11-16-20, 08:58 AM
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One of the reasons I bought the Kickr Bike. I donít have to mess with the alinement of my derailleur. An I have main difference gearing setups for the different routes I ride on Rouvy.
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Old 11-16-20, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Wiser View Post
One of the reasons I bought the Kickr Bike. I donít have to mess with the alinement of my derailleur. An I have main difference gearing setups for the different routes I ride on Rouvy.
Yea, but if you get the alignment right it shouldn't be any further issue. I haven't touched mine for two years now.
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Old 11-16-20, 04:11 PM
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Ed Wiser
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The problem would be once you have the derailleur set up for that cassette. An you have a different cassette on your bike wheel it will need to be adjusted when you take it off the trainer. Why many people keep a bike on their trainer all winter long. I did this when I retired I sold my car that I drove to work and bought the Kicker bike. It allows me to have a bunch of different compact setups for different rides. As so many indoor rides have a lot of hills an mountains in them.
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Old 11-16-20, 06:31 PM
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No, that's not what you do. The trick is to get your derailleur/cable set so that it shifts perfectly on your wheel, then align the cassette(s) on the trainer so that it lines up with the derailleur using spacers. Then you can freely swap without adjusting. Mine works perfectly this way and I even have a klugey setup on my trainer with a Shimano cassette spaced out for Campy 10. And it doesn't have to be quite perfect as long as it isn't noisy. If you have standard Shimano 11 setup it should be really easy to accomplish even without additional spacers as there is no extra space on the freehub. With Shimano 10 you need a 1mm spacer behind the cassette, with Shimano 9 I think it is the 1.8mm spacer. With my Campy 10 the 1mm worked. If it is still off, try adding .2mm behind the cassette. If you need to subtract .2mm you may need a .8mm to sub for the 1mm if that's what you have. But again, 11sp should just work. 11sp is 131 spacing, 10sp is 130, that's where the 1mm spacer comes in. 9sp is shorter still so you need 1.8. You can't run 10sp on a 9sp freehub because the 10th cog doesn't fit. That extra 1mm on 11sp was snuck in there by Shimano since the wheel would still fit a 130 spaced frame without anybody noticing, even a stiff aluminum frame. I have an old Cannondale frame that is 128 spaced that came with a 126 wheel. 126 was standard at the time, but this was the transition to 130 spacing so this frame would work with either wheel,

Cassettes have to have tight tolerances otherwise indexing wouldn't work well.

Last edited by zacster; 11-16-20 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 11-16-20, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
The trick is to get your derailleur/cable set so that it shifts perfectly on your wheel, then align the cassette(s) on the trainer so that it lines up with the derailleur using spacers. Then you can freely swap without adjusting.
Would a derailleur setup for an 11-32 on the wheel apply interchangeably for an 11-28 on a trainer? Or would there be a spacing/size difference that could cause derailleur to rub?
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Old 11-17-20, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jno View Post
Would a derailleur setup for an 11-32 on the wheel apply interchangeably for an 11-28 on a trainer? Or would there be a spacing/size difference that could cause derailleur to rub?
It should work without much problem. Having smaller cogs on the trainer won't matter. The other way around is probably not ideal but would still probably work too except the derailleur would then need the longer cage because of the trainer.

My advice for those that aren't going to use a dedicated bike for the trainer is to set the bike up for riding outdoors first and foremost, and then make the trainer fit the setup so that no adjustments are needed to swap it in and out. If you need to make adjustments to get it on the trainer each time you are more likely to do your trainer rides in your head while surfing the TV from your couch. And when I'm outdoors I don't want to have to stop and mess with gearing, I just want to ride.
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Old 11-17-20, 10:43 AM
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I don't own a direct drive trainer, so I'm just going to throw this out there:

1. Ensure your cassette is the same speed. ie. if your bike is a 9 speed and you have an 11 speed cassette on your trainer, it's not going to work right.
2. Ensure you are using the right spacers if applicable.
3. I would ensure I had the same gear ratio on the cassette on the trainer as I do on my bike.
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Old 11-17-20, 10:44 AM
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I have a hammer and have a claris drivetrain, I use the same cassette model on both wheel and trainer (12-28 or 11-28, can't quite remember). Anyhow, generally I use erg mode with trainerroad so I set it on a gear and forget it for the most part. Recently I did some zwift racing and the 3 smallest cogs were just super noisy. I went as far as undoing the cable, messing with the high limit screw, reindexing, the whole 9 yards and that really didn't help. From what I see online this isn't an uncommon occurrence among a variety of trainer models.
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Old 11-17-20, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
No, that's not what you do. The trick is to get your derailleur/cable set so that it shifts perfectly on your wheel, then align the cassette(s) on the trainer so that it lines up with the derailleur using spacers. Then you can freely swap without adjusting. Mine works perfectly this way and I even have a klugey setup on my trainer with a Shimano cassette spaced out for Campy 10. And it doesn't have to be quite perfect as long as it isn't noisy. If you have standard Shimano 11 setup it should be really easy to accomplish even without additional spacers as there is no extra space on the freehub. With Shimano 10 you need a 1mm spacer behind the cassette, with Shimano 9 I think it is the 1.8mm spacer. With my Campy 10 the 1mm worked. If it is still off, try adding .2mm behind the cassette. If you need to subtract .2mm you may need a .8mm to sub for the 1mm if that's what you have. But again, 11sp should just work. 11sp is 131 spacing, 10sp is 130, that's where the 1mm spacer comes in. 9sp is shorter still so you need 1.8. You can't run 10sp on a 9sp freehub because the 10th cog doesn't fit. That extra 1mm on 11sp was snuck in there by Shimano since the wheel would still fit a 130 spaced frame without anybody noticing, even a stiff aluminum frame. I have an old Cannondale frame that is 128 spaced that came with a 126 wheel. 126 was standard at the time, but this was the transition to 130 spacing so this frame would work with either wheel,

Cassettes have to have tight tolerances otherwise indexing wouldn't work well.
Glad you got yours working as it is a real problem for lots of folks.
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Old 11-18-20, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Jno View Post
Would a derailleur setup for an 11-32 on the wheel apply interchangeably for an 11-28 on a trainer? Or would there be a spacing/size difference that could cause derailleur to rub?
I recently went direct drive and found Zacsterís advice spot on. No issue with my 11-34 on the trainerís 11-28.
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Old 11-20-20, 10:20 AM
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Sorry, I got super busy and wasn't able to get back to this. I appreciate all the responses.

I am running a 10 speed Shimano Ultegra cassette and chain on the trainer. My groupset is SRAM Force 10 speed. All housing and cable is new. I checked the RD hanger and it is straight.

On the wheel is a SRAM PG 1070 10 speed cassette, I took this cassette off the wheel and put it on the Hammer trainer, it did not help or change things.

As far as spacing I have tried the Hammer spacer that came with it, a generic one that comes with hubs to space for 10 speeds, both at the same time, and a super thin one that I used by itself and in combination of the others.

I have also put a washer on the derailleur mount to pull it outboard.

I have adjusted the limit screws all over the place, b tension screw, cable tension. Nothing works. If I loosen the tension enough to drop it into the highest gear then it won't shift up and vice versa.

The only way I can get it to drop is to stop pedaling and then pick back up, not conducive for sprinting, when I am going to use this cog.
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