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Wahoo Kicker and the Three Bears

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Wahoo Kicker and the Three Bears

Old 01-03-21, 01:02 PM
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Vaughan51
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Wahoo Kicker and the Three Bears

After a great summer riding my Salsa Fargo around the country side I decided to buy a Wahoo Kicker Snap to try and keep in some kind of shape over the winter.

I tried riding for about 30 minutes and that was just too short - hardly seemed worthwhile getting into the cycling shorts.
Tried an outside ride length (2.5 hrs) but I was so bored by the end I was ready to try peddling with my hands just for variety.
So I went to a 1 hour ride length and that seemed about right. Even tried a GCN 30 minute HIIT with 15 minutes of additional warm up / cool down - felt pretty good.

My question is what are other folks doing for ride length and does Swift or other programs help folks ride for longer times indoors on trainers.

Just curious?
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Old 01-03-21, 02:38 PM
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Anywhere from 35 minutes to all day, but usually no more than 4 hours. Using Zwift and Rouvy helps quite a bit, although some days I just have an idea of how much sweet spot or Z2 that I want to do and I'll watch a movie or some TV shows.
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Old 01-03-21, 03:24 PM
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My rides are from 1-2 hrs and generally more intense than I would do outside. I do either 2x20 SST intervals or 6x5x1 at 106% with varying amounts of warm-up and cool down or just ride a zwift course. Yesterday, I bounced back and forth between zwift and watching cyclocross.
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Old 01-03-21, 04:52 PM
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I always had trouble riding more than about an hour and a half with trainerroad. I find I have trouble completing workouts if I'm watching tv, so that never worked out. With zwift, my tailbone gets sore after about an hour. I'm setting up a rocker plate which hopefully will help with that.
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Old 01-03-21, 06:35 PM
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I found zwift to be a lot of fun if you embrace the fact it's a game and a simulation. There's a lot of routes, you can earn in-game currency to buy stuff to change your character's bike and wheels. There's a bunch of 'badges' to get for the routes and other accomplishments. I find the graphics a bit cartoon-y but I'm not looking for absolute realism. There's a lot of group rides and social stuff to get into if you want, I joined a team and sometimes do races which is nice since there's no risk of crashing like the real world... and I get whooped pretty good most of the time. There's also more social group rides where people chat over discord or other apps.

Rouvy seems pretty neat too, I tried it for a bit and it was nice but didn't seem as much of a game as zwift is. RGT is a bit more toward the realistic side of things with the simulations and the physics but it crashed when I tried using it on my laptop so I've never tried it. There's a few other programs out there, all of them have free trials, I'd give a bunch of them a try and see if you like them.
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Old 01-03-21, 06:50 PM
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I generally do an hour at present working up to and hour and a half. I do Sufferfest for workouts they are extremely tough. Zwift for group rides several times a week and Rouvy for just enjoying riding.
I donít get into the game end of things as I do the riding for my health and donít need it to be a game. As the game is to get fit and remain so.
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Old 01-03-21, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
My rides are from 1-2 hrs and generally more intense than I would do outside.
That is funny! I have always had the mindset that I can push myself hard when I'm riding indoors because if I ever bonk, I am already home! I almost always push myself harder on a trainer than I will on the road

Since I ride harder on a trainer, it is usually shorter than outdoor rides. Typically I warm up a bit on my own, and then ride along with a GCN video to keep me company and give me guidelines on when to push and when to rest. It usually works out to 30-40 minutes, and it doesn't cost anything. It is short, so I don't usually bother with cycling shorts... I save that for longer rides when I may tire out and want the extra, er, comfort
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Old 01-03-21, 09:40 PM
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i've tried everything from rollers to Computrainer to Sufferfest, Carmichael Training System, to Rouvy, etc.

for my money Zwift has been the best by far b/c of other riders. time goes quickest for me that way.
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Old 01-04-21, 12:08 AM
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I like Zwift.
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Old 01-04-21, 01:52 AM
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On Zwift, I find myself getting the most use out of the training plans. "Work on your weakness" is always sage advice. So, after a month or 2 screwing around & not getting as much out of it as the hype suggested I should, I figured the plan for me was to try Dirt Destroyer or failing that, quit my subscription & do something else. The decision to engage in structured training made a huge difference in the entire experience. The training plan also worked it's magic in my raw pedal torque (my weakness) & added a few tools to my skills toolbox I didn't know I needed.

In Zwift free ride, as well on dumb trainers of the past, I always found myself doing what some would call: "negative splits," though they really probably aren't in the strictest sense. I have a habit of increasing the power until failure with every passing lap/minute/sprint/hillclimb/whatever. It's probably not the healthiest way to train. I recognize I need structure.

So, after goofing around some more, I enrolled in another training program to provide the needed structure; Singletrack Slayer & again, it has made a huge difference! I'm a few weeks into this second training plan & took my gravel/cx bike to do 45 miles of mixed surface mountain biking & single track a few days ago. I owe the ability to spin uncomfortably high & low cadences & have the torque to back it up to the training plan. Where as before, even with my mountain bike I'd have been walking.

Zwift is a great substitute for bike riding, but it's not bike riding. It's exercise for fitness & training for bike riding.

To answer your question: About 60 to 90 minutes of structured work everyday or every other day as directed. More as a route, level up or challenge dictates.

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Old 01-04-21, 09:33 AM
  #11  
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I started Zwift in mid Nov 2019, very quickly decided to get all the in-game goodies as fast as possible. From the start to roughly May 2020, most of my Zwift time was spent chasing all of the route badges, the three challenges and getting the Tron bike. Did a lot of social rides and got spanked in a few races. Then spring riding season hit I might have used Zwift once a week at that point.


So now I have most of the bonus points, all of the route badges and all of the in-game stuff that I want to buy with game money and still have almost 6 million drops and there is nothing I want to buy with it. I'm riding between 120-170 miles/week on Zwift but at my level (level 36) it takes about 1000 miles to move up 2 levels. So the instant gratification aspect there is long gone.


That though is actually a good thing because up until this winter I had not done any workouts in Zwift. I'm currently in week 8 of a 12 week workout program. Because of time constraints I'm doing less social rides and the one race I do weekly is being considered for the chopping block. The workout program is literally kicking me in my butt. To complicate things some I made a modest trainer upgrade two weeks ago, went from a supported dumb trainer to a wheel-on smart trainer. Watts are watts but my smart trainer is harder than my supported dumb trainer. Last night I started a workout and quit, first time I've done that but my legs just didn't have it in them. I have concluded that it's in my best interests to not worry about finishing every single workout in the program, some weeks have as many a 5 interval workouts per week. I think that is too much. I will do the best I can, push myself but not get wacked out about being 100% faithful to the program.


What I think I'm getting at is this, I'm 62 but still work full time. I'm 2 years into riding my bike and I'm riding the local hills ok and between outside and trainer/Zwift averaging about 140-150 miles/week. At this point with doing a workout program I'm really working hard which should in theory help me to gain a better level of fitness. I'm struggling at the moment to keep up with the number of workouts and the intensity, I think the new trainer has something to do with it but the workouts are still a challenge.


Like just about everyone on planet earth we have always had some sort of stationary bike in the house but I find them tedious at best and 5 minutes on one and I'm bored to tears. 10 minutes is like a lifetime. But I have no problems logging 100+ miles a week using Zwift. That is the key, all the great plans and hardware as well as good intentions and resolutions are meaningless if we don't participate in them, put in the effort.
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Old 01-04-21, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas15 View Post
I started Zwift in mid Nov 2019, very quickly decided to get all the in-game goodies as fast as possible. From the start to roughly May 2020, most of my Zwift time was spent chasing all of the route badges, the three challenges and getting the Tron bike. Did a lot of social rides and got spanked in a few races. Then spring riding season hit I might have used Zwift once a week at that point.


So now I have most of the bonus points, all of the route badges and all of the in-game stuff that I want to buy with game money and still have almost 6 million drops and there is nothing I want to buy with it. I'm riding between 120-170 miles/week on Zwift but at my level (level 36) it takes about 1000 miles to move up 2 levels. So the instant gratification aspect there is long gone.


That though is actually a good thing because up until this winter I had not done any workouts in Zwift. I'm currently in week 8 of a 12 week workout program. Because of time constraints I'm doing less social rides and the one race I do weekly is being considered for the chopping block. The workout program is literally kicking me in my butt. To complicate things some I made a modest trainer upgrade two weeks ago, went from a supported dumb trainer to a wheel-on smart trainer. Watts are watts but my smart trainer is harder than my supported dumb trainer. Last night I started a workout and quit, first time I've done that but my legs just didn't have it in them. I have concluded that it's in my best interests to not worry about finishing every single workout in the program, some weeks have as many a 5 interval workouts per week. I think that is too much. I will do the best I can, push myself but not get wacked out about being 100% faithful to the program.


What I think I'm getting at is this, I'm 62 but still work full time. I'm 2 years into riding my bike and I'm riding the local hills ok and between outside and trainer/Zwift averaging about 140-150 miles/week. At this point with doing a workout program I'm really working hard which should in theory help me to gain a better level of fitness. I'm struggling at the moment to keep up with the number of workouts and the intensity, I think the new trainer has something to do with it but the workouts are still a challenge.


Like just about everyone on planet earth we have always had some sort of stationary bike in the house but I find them tedious at best and 5 minutes on one and I'm bored to tears. 10 minutes is like a lifetime. But I have no problems logging 100+ miles a week using Zwift. That is the key, all the great plans and hardware as well as good intentions and resolutions are meaningless if we don't participate in them, put in the effort.
Have you considered taking some time away from "training"? Sometimes even the most enthusiastic among us need a break to get reinvigorated. Weather permitting, just riding around unstructured and without a care about a "plan" can be helpful. Also - finding another activity (X-Country Skiing, lifting weights, running) to break it up can help as well. Also - getting another bike can be beneficial (something that is either for a different discipline or different style (for example, a down-tube shifter vintage bike or a mountain / gravel bike for going in a different direction.
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Old 01-04-21, 10:56 AM
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It depends. Most of my trainer rides are an hour or less. Although I did a 90 minute one on Saturday. It was a Trainerroad endurance ride where I ran Zwift concurrently to do the Alpe du Zwift ride, which was distracting and made the time pass pretty well.
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Old 01-04-21, 12:41 PM
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I've been using a trainer on and off for many years, mostly off. 3 years ago I went on a kick and started using Sufferfest online and then also Zwift. While in the past I could barely make half an hour, with these two programs I was able to get over an hour in. Any more though and I still get bored. Sufferfest videos run mostly between 45 minutes and an hour, at least the hardcore ones do, and I would do Zwift group rides. When I upgraded from a fluid trainer to a Kickr Core I was also able to do Zwift routes the way they were intended, and also Rouvy occasionally. Without the grade simulations they were always just too easy, but climbing to the radio tower in Watopia can be a killer on a controlled trainer. That's what finally made it fun though too. Riding up that hill, others around you with the same struggle. And that goes on easier rides too, there is always somebody at approximately your pace. My favorite, based on my location, is of course the NYC routes, in particular the ground level Park Perimeter route around Central Park. I've been riding that loop for 50 years in real life. The simulation is pretty good, but the Harlem Hill feels a little off.

And in agreement with others above, I find that my indoor workout is much tougher than riding outdoors. You never keep up that kind of pace on the roads, at least I don't.
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Old 01-04-21, 03:17 PM
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Some really good stuff mentioned. I appreciate all the comments.

I initially did have trouble getting past the 30minutes mark but I think that was because my cadence was over 100 and I used up all my carbs real quick. Since I slowed down to 80-90 cadence my endurance seems to have gone up. That's a guess by the way.
Hadn't thought about riding without bike shorts but for an hour or so it probably wouldn't be an issue.
Will have to check out YouTube or something regarding Sufferfest, still thinking about Zwift. As mentioned initially I do like the GCN video's and the perceived effort variable as it gives me an idea as to what to do being a newbie on the trainer.
Checked out some movies to see if they'd fit with cycling - most didn't. The exception being the "Holidate" which given the season was on and seemed to keep a person's interest - I'm thinking that the movie route would be a personal choice like/dislike. That said it got me to 1.5hrs so thats good.

Plugging away on the trainer!
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Old 01-04-21, 04:21 PM
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Most of my indoor rides are between 60-90 minutes and generally more intense than anything I'd do outside. I'm almost always on Zwift now, and doing intervals, group rides and/or tackling challenging climbs where I'm trying to PR segments. I simultaneously listen to podcasts or music. All of this is way easier for me to do on Zwift vs. outside.

Zwift has definitely made indoor riding more enjoyable for me. I used to watch TV shows while riding indoors on a trainer, and would sometimes structure my own interval workouts, but found it really difficult to stay focused for more than 45 minutes or so. I found that I would frequently just "zone out" and ride a steady tempo for big chunks of the workout, which starts to become pointless. I suppose now with ERG mode on a smart trainer, I could try watching TV again because the trainer will automatically keep me in the right power zone. Maybe I'll give that a try if/when I get bored with Zwift.
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Old 01-04-21, 06:18 PM
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I've always wondered how people could watch videos or TV while doing structured intervals and now I realize that they're doing it on smart trainers with erg mode. On my dumb trainer, half the battle is trying to keep the target numbers black, especially if there's also a cadence target which requires finding the right gear combo.
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Old 01-05-21, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
............................. My favorite, based on my location, is of course the NYC routes, in particular the ground level Park Perimeter route around Central Park. I've been riding that loop for 50 years in real life. The simulation is pretty good, but the Harlem Hill feels a little off.

And in agreement with others above, I find that my indoor workout is much tougher than riding outdoors. You never keep up that kind of pace on the roads, at least I don't.
Funny you should mention that because for me NYC is my least favorite world in Zwift LOL!

Having said that I would like to do that ride IRL maybe next summer, see you out there.
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Old 01-05-21, 09:36 AM
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30-60min on zwift.

Half the time my workout is just zwift and half the time I will do core/arms before zwift. that often determines how long i zwift for. If its 30min, its doing a race. If its longer, its may be a race or on my own typically.
Ive found the races are what motivates me to push harder, so since Im only on the trainer for 30-60min, I might as well work hard. I use a trainer for exercise- to burn calories and work my cycling muscles. As such, any time on there is good time- I dont buy into the junk miles or whatever because its just exercise to burn calories and be healthy.

Ive tried a few group rides in the last year and those are typically 50-60min. I end up with a good workout, but I really dont 'get' group rides. I am surrounded by a bunch of avatars, but im busy exercising so I dont fully understand the appeal. At the same time, it wasnt bad and Ill do it again, so maybe I do understand the appeal and cant express it? Not sure...its tough to describe. I can take em or leave em, but I guess I will end up taking. Group rides are like Jello- they are neat to think of having because you have good memories, but in reality they are pretty bland and uninspiring, but you also dont regret having it.
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Old 01-05-21, 10:11 AM
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Because I'm limited for time during the week, I ride sweet spot with one threshold+ day thrown in (anywhere from 45min to 1.5hrs). I use Zwift to help me achieve this. Sometime I climb (Alpe or Ven-Top), other times I pick a fast group ride. If I need a recovery or low intensity day, I'll pick a slower group ride. I do not focus on mileage, I focus on my power. You can zone 2 it for hundreds of miles each week and it won't do a thing to make you stronger (if you do not do, or have time for any high intensity stuff).
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Old 01-05-21, 02:22 PM
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One thing I really love about Zwift is the climbing. I don't have much elevation where I live, but I can plug in and climb a big mountain on Zwift whenever I want. I love the challenge and tracking my efforts on on segments over time.
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Old 01-05-21, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Because I'm limited for time during the week, I ride sweet spot with one threshold+ day thrown in (anywhere from 45min to 1.5hrs). I use Zwift to help me achieve this. Sometime I climb (Alpe or Ven-Top), other times I pick a fast group ride. If I need a recovery or low intensity day, I'll pick a slower group ride. I do not focus on mileage, I focus on my power. You can zone 2 it for hundreds of miles each week and it won't do a thing to make you stronger (if you do not do, or have time for any high intensity stuff).
After reading the post I tried the erg mode for the first time. That was a learning / humbling experience. I went on line a read the Cycling Analytics post on FTP etc. and yep I am "recreational / untrained" would be the best way to put it. I guess I have another focus area or maybe I should say metric to set a goal. Originally my goal was to do a 200km ride comfortably in a day. An FTP goal could compliment that for sure.
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