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Smart Trainer n00b, which bike to use and shifting questions. My

Old 04-21-21, 08:12 AM
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Smart Trainer n00b, which bike to use and shifting questions. My

I got a smart trainer yesterday, supposedly to keep in shape. We'll see. It came with mid 2000's Mavic Cosmic for use and a new green training tire. It's got a Shimano freehub. It also came with a thru axle adapter. I have some options. I'll be hooking it up to Zwift, hopefully for a simple 45 minute high intensity set 5ish days a week.

I have two bikes I could use.

- Richey Swiss Cross V2. I have an unused thru axle wheel and unused 11-36 cassette for it. This would give me a training ratio of 38x11-36 (bike normally sports 10-42), is this adequate? Do you even shift on a trainer? I would be happy to consider the wheel and cassette disposable.

- My beautiful Tallerico. 10 speed Campy. I have a "spare" set of wheels with Campy hubs and Open Pro's, with a Miche (cheap, disposable) cassette. I do occasionally use this wheel though, so I'd either have to use the trainer on the current tire or swap tires when I do want to use it.

Aside from buying a new cassette body or a special Shimano to Campy cassette from IRD for $150, I don't think I can use the Cosmic. I'm ok with that.

I could see either way working.

I guess my final question is about frames. While both are steel, one is rather robust and welded and the other is more artisanal and filleted. Both are quite strong and probably not a real concern. I don't know though.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-21-21, 08:50 AM
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You mention bikes but not the actual smart trainer you purchased. If it's a direct drive smart trainer you won't need a training wheel and, yes, you'll be able to shift.

And as long as your bike fits on the trainer basically anything will work. I've attached my wife's Trek Verve 2 to our Kickr Core and it's a 3x8 hybrid. Works just fine (albeit the seat is silly high when I ride).
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Old 04-21-21, 09:18 AM
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Put the trainer back in the box and wait till winter comes. Too pretty outside to want to stay indoors.
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Old 04-21-21, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by guachi
You mention bikes but not the actual smart trainer you purchased. If it's a direct drive smart trainer you won't need a training wheel and, yes, you'll be able to shift.

And as long as your bike fits on the trainer basically anything will work. I've attached my wife's Trek Verve 2 to our Kickr Core and it's a 3x8 hybrid. Works just fine (albeit the seat is silly high when I ride).
I figured the mention of which wheel choice eliminates the option direct drive. It's a Kurt Kinetic T2700.

I know either bike fits.

I assume, but don't know, that as the program ramps up difficulty, I need to shift. Just like hitting a hill on the road.

My reluctance to use the gravel bike is one of gearing. Will 38x11-36 be adequate? It's quite a bit lower for the high end than a regular road bike.
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Old 04-21-21, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Put the trainer back in the box and wait till winter comes. Too pretty outside to want to stay indoors.
I had every intention to get something like this in the fall. A deal came my way and I jumped. I think I can see the advantage, even in the summer, given my extremely limited time to ride.
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Old 04-21-21, 09:25 AM
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Moved here from General cycling so you get a few less, "just ride outside" posts. I find my trainer to be very useful all year round because it takes less time.

What programs are you going to be using to drive this trainer? With zwift, it's just like outside. You have to shift. Although you can change what they call "trainer difficulty" to reduce that.
In ERG mode, you don't have to shift, the trainer tries to control the watts. That is used by programs like Trainerroad and zwift in workout mode.
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Old 04-21-21, 10:41 AM
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It doesn't matter what bike you put on an indoor trainer as long as the fit is good. You are pedaling indoors, not riding a bike. Put the bike that you don't mind getting sweat damage on.

I see people selling bikes all the time with the caveat "only used indoors"....that is red a flag because they don't understand sweat damage. If they did they would not be hyping up a bike that is an indoor bike.

Always use a sweat shield or towel and wipe your bike down after an indoor ride. Put a cheap bike on the trainer that fits and leave it as your trainer bike. No need whatsoever to use a good bike on a trainer unless that is the only one that fits you properly.
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Old 04-21-21, 10:51 AM
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If that's the trainer they now call the "Road Machine" it's not a smart trainer the way most use the term. If it has an InRide sensor, it transmits estimated power data via Bluetooth that will let you connect to Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc. I have one, and as long as you keep the tire pressure consistent and you calibrate the trainer each time, it's pretty close to the same reading as I get from my Stages. But it's not controllable via software, that is it won't simulate hills/wind nor will it follow a workout ("erg mode"). You control the resistance through your gears and legs.
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Old 04-21-21, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by caloso
If that's the trainer they now call the "Road Machine" it's not a smart trainer the way most use the term. If it has an InRide sensor, it transmits estimated power data via Bluetooth that will let you connect to Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc. I have one, and as long as you keep the tire pressure consistent and you calibrate the trainer each time, it's pretty close to the same reading as I get from my Stages. But it's not controllable via software, that is it won't simulate hills/wind nor will it follow a workout ("erg mode"). You control the resistance through your gears and legs.
I think that might be exactly what I have. I haven't hooked it up yet, so I don't know what it does.

Does zwift have a low technology mode for trainers like this?
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Old 04-21-21, 11:59 AM
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All training apps care about are watts. Zwift and the like can estimate your watts based off of their internal power curves based on wheel speed if you pair a speed sensor. If you have an InRide module or if that Kinetic reports as a power meter, then you can directly pair that to report watts.

Without a true smart trainer that controls resistance, it's up to you to shift up to create more resistance, which will require more power to put down the same cadence, and the opposite when shifting down. A 38t front will be plenty since your trainer won't simulate downhills where you would spin out.

It's generally a good idea to have a dedicate trainer tire because wheel-on trainers create a lot of heat from friction. With a wheel-on trainer it's also important to maintain a consistent tire pressure otherwise you will get inconsistent power estimates.
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Old 04-21-21, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
I think that might be exactly what I have. I haven't hooked it up yet, so I don't know what it does.

Does zwift have a low technology mode for trainers like this?
You don't have to select any particular mode, just start riding and the game reacts to the power data. Put in more power and your screen avatar goes faster.
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Old 04-21-21, 12:44 PM
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Ok, now I'm getting into the nuts and bolts.

It found my cadence right away.

It found the trainer but says 0 mph. I don't have a sensor for the wheel. I assume I have to get one.

It can't seem to find my heart rate, even though my watch finds it. It seems to be ant+. No reason not to.
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Old 04-21-21, 12:55 PM
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What are you running Zwift on? Some platforms are bluetooth only.
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Old 04-21-21, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
It found the trainer but says 0 mph. I don't have a sensor for the wheel. I assume I have to get one.

It can't seem to find my heart rate, even though my watch finds it. It seems to be ant+. No reason not to.
If Kurt only makes one model called T2700, it does look like it comes with an InRide sensor. You'll need the Kinetic app to calibrate it, then you can pair it as a power source. You won't need a speed sensor.

You don't say what your heart rate sensor is or what you're running Zwift on. PCs generally don't have ANT+ without a separate USB ANT+ stick, in fact only older Samsungs phones and tablets typically have builtin ANT+ support.
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Old 04-21-21, 01:22 PM
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Sweet!

Ok, so my HR is only ant+ but my cadence is both. I didn't realize that so I figured that something was messed up.

So I just need to order a dongle for it.

I downloaded the Kinetic app and everything but the he works great. Honestly, for my purposes, I might be ok with only the Kinetic app and not zwift.

Thanks guys. I'm sure this is basic stuff.

The last time I was on a trainer was a wind trainer with the university of wyoming cycling team in the middle of winter, over 20 years ago.

For now I'm using the Swiss Cross with an 11-28 cassette I had. I'll monkey with other bikes in the future if my gigantic legs prove overwhelming to gear ratios I have.

Last edited by rosefarts; 04-21-21 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 04-21-21, 03:45 PM
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Zwift figures out your speed from the amount of power you are putting out and their physics model. No other sensors are needed. I think they try to figure out your cadence from power if you don't have a cadence sensor, but in either case it just makes the legs on your avatar move.
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Old 04-22-21, 01:51 PM
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I have an older Kurt Kinetic and iNRide sensor. I also just refurbished and updated a free older PC just for Zwift. And wrote about it here... https://www.bikeforums.net/indoor-stationary-cycling-forum/1226574-upgrading-older-pc-zwift.html

I call it a "Half Smart" trainer. It provides the power output needed for Zwift. I use an ANT+ USB dongle and Bluetooth LE USB dongle on the PC. And run Windows 10. I also use a Wahoo lookalike Schosche brand bluetooth speed and cadence sensor, but Zwift only uses the cadence with the iNRide power output. iNRide gives an estimate of cadence, not sure how, but it isn't far off. I also use a Wahoo Ticker X HRM belt, and Zwift connects with ANT+. I use either my Samsung phone or tablet with the Zwift companion app. But either the Phone or the tablet can run Zwift alone. And I connect the PC to a 50" TV via the HDMI cable for a display. I used to use my laptop with the ANT+ dongle and connected to the TV. But the PC provides a better video output and a little better "game play" than my laptop.

My trainer bike is a 1998 Cannondale R200 CAAD2. 52-42-32 triple, 28 (I think) to 12 7 speed. I crashed on this bike nearly 10 years ago, breaking my back. But the bike survived, and I can't pass it on to someone else, nor ride it outside as I believe it to be "cursed". Personal problem. However, I have a 2006 R1000 CAAD8 2x10 (for now) that is a near perfect match in size and positioning that is my speed machine. I have 2 other bikes for most other riding, a 1986 KHS steel bike upgrade to 2x10, and a 97 Cannondale R300 CAAD2 3x7. And a couple older MTBs.

As for shifting, your speed in the app and your perceived effort will tell you when to shift. Just like in real life... The fluid trainer advantage over the mag trainer is the more effort you put in, the more resistance you get out of it. Without needing to manage a resistance lever of any sort. The iNRide sensor algorithms do a great job of estimating power output, so you can get a good experience in "game play" and a real workout along the way. Good luck!

Last edited by zjrog; 04-22-21 at 01:55 PM.
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