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Wahoo Kickr Bike, dual sided power

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Wahoo Kickr Bike, dual sided power

Old 09-03-21, 03:37 PM
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Barry2 
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Wahoo Kickr Bike, dual sided power

My Wahoo Kickr bike has a built-in (hub) power meter.
I control the Kickr bike from my Wahoo Roam.

I want to use dual-sided power, so I added Garmin Rally RS200 dual-sided pedals.
Problem is, I can find no way to convince the Roam to display pedal power while the Kickr bike is connected.
With both Wahoo and Garmin power meters connected, the Roam defaults to the Wahoo.

Any ideas, or do I now own a low mileage pair of pedals I can't really use?

Barry
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Old 09-03-21, 04:40 PM
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Have you tried pairing the pedals before powering up the bike?
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Old 09-03-21, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
Have you tried pairing the pedals before powering up the bike?
First come, first served......I'll try and report back
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Old 09-03-21, 07:25 PM
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Nope... no cigar!
Nice idea tho

With Pedals connected, me pedaling and display showing L/R balance (so definitely dual)....
As soon as the bike powers up I lose the L/R balance (so we are back to the Bike hub PM)



Barry
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Old 09-03-21, 07:32 PM
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The issue is probably with the FE-C Protocol which sets the communication protocols and parameters for controlling the Kickr Bike.
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Old 09-03-21, 10:11 PM
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bummer. here is another idea...i would assume that the bike is being connected via ant+, so, try to connect to your peddles via blue tooth, assuming they support that protocol.
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Old 09-03-21, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
The issue is probably with the FE-C Protocol which sets the communication protocols and parameters for controlling the Kickr Bike.
i don't understand this. i've written an app that communicated with my kicker and do not recall anything about setting com protocols and parameters such as what you mention. if i had to guess i would think that in barry's case it is the roam that is forcing the connection to be closed just due to some hard coded programming preference.

i am hoping that the bluetooth connection will be left alone. i've not tried to connect to my kicker or hrm or cadence sensor via both but mayte tommorw i'll give it a whirl.
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Old 09-03-21, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
bummer. here is another idea...i would assume that the bike is being connected via ant+, so, try to connect to your peddles via blue tooth, assuming they support that protocol.
Wahoo Roam & Bolt do not allow you to choose. If device offers Ant+ Youre stuck using it.

Barry
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Old 09-03-21, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
Wahoo Roam & Bolt do not allow you to choose. If device offers Ant+ Youre stuck using it.

Barry
bummer again. ok, any chance you can use another device to connect to the pedals via ant, then fire up the roam? i would assume that if the first device has already established a connection via ant the roam will not be able to hijack the connection and will be forced to use the bluetooth. then you might be able to power up the bike.

i know, such a total hack, and a miracle if it works.
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Old 09-03-21, 10:41 PM
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Ive both the Roam and Bolt. Ill try that in the morning.

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Old 09-04-21, 05:36 AM
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This seems a little weird. It would mean that if you are riding someone, your roam would connect to your friend's power meter if it likes it better somehow. Similarly if you had two trainer bikes sitting in the same room together. I can't imagine that's really true. Wahoo has some bugs, but I imagine they fixed that one early on.
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Old 09-04-21, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
This seems a little weird. It would mean that if you are riding someone, your roam would connect to your friend's power meter if it likes it better somehow. Similarly if you had two trainer bikes sitting in the same room together. I can't imagine that's really true. Wahoo has some bugs, but I imagine they fixed that one early on.
That usually won’t happen. You have to “Pair” sensors with the head unit (Roam in this case) and as long as your buddies bike is not around the head unit won’t display it as an available sensor for pairing.
The head unit then operates with sensors it’s been Paired with and ignores all others. My issue is the I have to Pair two Power Meters and have no control over which gets used by the Roam.


Now if your at the mid ride stop with friends, unpair and re-pair your Heart Rate monitor, you could get the wrong one.
Then with your friends Heart Rate displayed on your Roam, you get to give him crap for how bad he’s doing for the rest of the ride.
Much fun was had that day.

Barry

Last edited by Barry2; 09-04-21 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 09-05-21, 07:38 AM
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You can't simply not pair the trainer power? Zwift and trainerroad both allow you to do that.
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Old 09-05-21, 07:49 AM
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The Roam is paired to the trainer in order to control resistance and record Speed & distance.
When pairing you don’t get to choose, you get the whole bike.

Barry

Last edited by Barry2; 09-05-21 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 09-07-21, 09:10 AM
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Ok fixed!
Solution was the simple application of money.
Purchased a Garmin Edge 860. Its quite happy to control the bikes resistance, read power from Garmin Rally pedals and ignore the Wahoo Kickr bike built in power meter.

In summery
Im extremely happy with my Wahoo Kickr bike, but for the bikes cost, dual sided should have been included.
At very least a path for self upgrade provided for.
I cant help feel that the Garmin solution is just luck and one (Garmin or Wahoo) firmware update away from failure.

Barry
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Old 09-07-21, 09:20 AM
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Well, if the firmware update screws that up, you now have 2 bike computers. One to control the kickr bike and the other two get the Garmin pedal data.
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Old 09-07-21, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Well, if the firmware update screws that up, you now have 2 bike computers. One to control the kickr bike and the other two get the Garmin pedal data.
Tried that already with my Roam & Bolt. I wind up with two .fit files and data I need in both. Strava and Intervals.icu cant handle that.

I may yet end up running both Garmin and Wahoo computers, the Garmin will not recognize my Wahoo Headwind fan. I do enjoy being able to control the fan while Im on the bike.


Barry
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Old 09-07-21, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
Tried that already with my Roam & Bolt. I wind up with two .fit files and data I need in both. Strava and Intervals.icu cant handle that.

I may yet end up running both Garmin and Wahoo computers, the Garmin will not recognize my Wahoo Headwind fan. I do enjoy being able to control the fan while Im on the bike.


Barry
if you later become interested you can send me the two fit files and i will see about merging them together into one. i will happily send you the resulting utility so you can do it on your own.
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Old 09-07-21, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
if you later become interested you can send me the two fit files and i will see about merging them together into one. i will happily send you the resulting utility so you can do it on your own.
Nice offer, thank you.
I'll stick with the Garmin for the time being, it gets me LR balence and a whole host of other shi stuff that may become of interest.

Thanks again

Barry
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Old 09-08-21, 11:33 AM
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The kickr is really giving you dual sided power, but it's merged together, obviously. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to deconvolve the data.

Wahoo would have to have a fairly complex extra circuit to determine which leg was which. Or a much more expensive crank with built in power meter. I can't imagine it's that important to too many people. The thing that's screwed up is the roam forcing you to use the one power stream instead of the other.
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Old 09-08-21, 11:50 AM
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With a single strain gauge in the Hub you can't determine one leg from the other.
Is the power registered at the Hub from the left leg pushing or the right leg pulling.... no way to tell.
You need two strain gauges, one for each leg. No manor of electronic circuit or decombobulatingism will fix a single strain gauge.

Barry

OH.. and yes it's a shame about the Roam.
It's also a shame it's up on Craigslist as we speak!
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Old 09-08-21, 12:48 PM
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Unless you are a rarity, you probably don't put out power from both legs at the same time. I don't know what your left/right balance is, but most people aren't 50/50. If you are, you don't really need two sided power anyway.
I guess I should connect my garmin up to my kickr and see what the data looks like. I'm not sure if zwift carries that much detail
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Old 09-08-21, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
The kickr is really giving you dual sided power, but it's merged together, obviously. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to deconvolve the data.

Wahoo would have to have a fairly complex extra circuit to determine which leg was which. Or a much more expensive crank with built in power meter. I can't imagine it's that important to too many people. The thing that's screwed up is the roam forcing you to use the one power stream instead of the other.
do you mean kicker bike? i have a kicker and it does not give dual power nor is there any possible way to extrapolate that info. it follows the FEC protocol and only total power is provided in the ant messages. there is another message that allows you to calculate it based on wheel speed, torque, and time but you still wind up with power.
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Old 09-08-21, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Unless you are a rarity, you probably don't put out power from both legs at the same time. I don't know what your left/right balance is, but most people aren't 50/50. If you are, you don't really need two sided power anyway.
I guess I should connect my garmin up to my kickr and see what the data looks like. I'm not sure if zwift carries that much detail
i don't think he is a rarity because i know i am not a rarity and i pull on the up stroke while peddling and sweep back on the back stroke. no where near with the same force as the down stroke but it is there. especially noticeable though when i am powering up a hill.
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Old 09-08-21, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Unless you are a rarity, you probably don't put out power from both legs at the same time. I don't know what your left/right balance is, but most people aren't 50/50. If you are, you don't really need two sided power anyway. I guess I should connect my garmin up to my kickr and see what the data looks like. I'm not sure if zwift carries that much detail
LOL
YES ..... I do output power from both legs at the same time!
I've worked quite hard in order to do so.
My coach even gives me pedal drills.
And with the help of 21st Century technology documenting my progress, I can get stronger at doing it.
As for my 55/45 split, its not bad, and it does tend to get better at higher outputs, just like my Torque Effectiveness.

By profession I'm a geek and do so enjoy some good data.
Dual-Sided is not just about balance, there is a whole lot more to be had with the right PM.

In simple terms, Imagine this....
You push down with your left leg 50 lbs
But you fail to pick up your 20 lbs right leg
30 lbs pushes you forward
What if you picked up your right leg 25 lbs
55 lbs pushes you forward
What if you used your pedals to push over TDC/BDC.


Lastly to quote my buddy in the UK
"You have to pedal all the way around" - Robert
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