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Zwift - the advantages of riding with pace partners.

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Zwift - the advantages of riding with pace partners.

Old 11-25-21, 08:37 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
You have to get the timing right, and this takes some luck, but you can find an intermediate workout by riding off the front of Coco. Earlier this week I did an hour that averaged 3 W/kg that way. The first 20 minutes I rode with Coco, so probably 2.6 or 2.7 W/Kg average, but then one one of the sprints a group of us escaped and never looked back. I'd guess we averaged 3.2 or 3.3 W/kg for the following 40 minutes.

Even on Tempus Fugit you can get a good workout if you go with the folks who go for the Reverse Fuego Flats KOM sprint.

The dynamics don't always develop and so it's hard to predict if it will happen, but when it does, you can find the middle ground by riding with Coco and seizing opportunities.

These small groups can be from 3 to 15 people. They can have real good dynamics, trading pulls and so on.

Of course, when you drop the bot, you lose the drops multiplier.
Yeah, I want the multiplier, I'm not breaking off it I'm above 1.6x. Maybe after I fund some upgrades

When I rode with Coco yesterday, I averaged 2.1 w/kg - I mean, I wanted to take it easy, but wow was it a snoozefest on that course.
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Old 11-25-21, 10:29 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I do wish there was someone between Cadence and Brevet, though; moving up to Brevet seems like a big jump because of the higher w/kg, the higher absolute power and the more lumpy courses with pay-attention-or-you'll-get-spit-OTB downhills. It's a nice tempo workout, but sometimes just a little more than I'm in the mood for.
Yeah, I think there can be in-betweens for all the categories. For me, D is a recovery ride (often too much of a recovery, I can significantly overshoot on climbs and lose the drop multiplier without even trying), C is the upper range of tempo, B is at or slightly above threshold depending on terrain, and A is... well, I've never tried following A and I don't think I will in the near or far future. Which means I don't have a pace partner right for me if I want a Z2 endurance ride or a Z4 sub-threshold pace.
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Old 11-25-21, 11:09 PM
  #28  
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Riding with Coco, my power distribution ends up divided between Z2 and Z3, which makes those rides not really recovery, and not really tempo. Tempcovery? Recoverempo?
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Old 11-26-21, 08:26 AM
  #29  
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As far as I've seen, it's only Coco that has grupettos forming off the front and giving a C+ experience. Maybe it happens in front of Bowie too, but you'd have a bunch of beasts to pull that off and if it were to happen, I for sure wouldn't be there with them. I wish it happened with Diesel Dan- forming groups that would pace near 2.0 or so. But I've never seen it.
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Old 11-26-21, 10:28 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
As far as I've seen, it's only Coco that has grupettos forming off the front and giving a C+ experience. Maybe it happens in front of Bowie too, but you'd have a bunch of beasts to pull that off and if it were to happen, I for sure wouldn't be there with them. I wish it happened with Diesel Dan- forming groups that would pace near 2.0 or so. But I've never seen it.
When riding with Diesel Dan (if there is a large group) just go off the front a bit and ask others to join you in the chat box. One issue may be though that a lot of riviera that are with Diesel Dan are in it for the increased drops, so they may not want to break off into a front group.
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Old 11-26-21, 11:43 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by sarhog View Post
When riding with Diesel Dan (if there is a large group) just go off the front a bit and ask others to join you in the chat box. One issue may be though that a lot of riviera that are with Diesel Dan are in it for the increased drops, so they may not want to break off into a front group.
Thanks for the suggestion.

I don't quite get people's interest in "drops". I've got 6 million of them, and I don't know what I would do with them. My virtual carbon bike already has virtual Zipp wheels. My avatar still wears the same dopey "bee" pattern jersey I got when I started. I'm level 32 or something, and I don't see much point in any of the other virtual swag that you can get with drops. Or am I missing something?

On and off I do a climbing ride - usually a solo tempo or recovery effort - as I'm working on getting the "tron" bike, but I don't care enough to work at it steadily, so it's taking quite a while. Riding with pace partners (even Bowie) doesn't accrue much altitude.
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Old 11-26-21, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I don't quite get people's interest in "drops". I've got 6 million of them, and I don't know what I would do with them. My virtual carbon bike already has virtual Zipp wheels. My avatar still wears the same dopey "bee" pattern jersey I got when I started. I'm level 32 or something, and I don't see much point in any of the other virtual swag that you can get with drops. Or am I missing something?.
The only thing drops can do is purchase virtual frame sets and virtual wheel sets. If you’re happy with your bike and wheels you certainly don’t need drops. The jerseys and other “wearables” are unlocked by level, or by completing certain events, they don’t consume drops.
On edit: I think drops are important for people early in their Zwifting career so they can buy the frame they like. I wanted the Canyon Aeroad, for instance, so I wanted those drops.
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Old 11-26-21, 12:05 PM
  #33  
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yeah, I would like to update my bike some. Otherwise, zwift makes it too hard to see how many drops you have and so I pretty much ignore them.
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Old 11-26-21, 12:05 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by sarhog View Post
The only thing drops can do is purchase virtual frame sets and virtual wheel sets. If you’re happy with your bike and wheels you certainly don’t need drops. The jerseys and other “wearables” are unlocked by level, or by completing certain events, they don’t consume drops.
On edit: I think drops are important for people early in their Zwifting career so they can buy the frame they like. I wanted the Canyon Aeroad, for instance, so I wanted those drops.
I think I am also riding the virtual aeroroad. Not that I can tell the difference in terms of speed vs. watts.
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Old 11-26-21, 05:46 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I think I am also riding the virtual aeroroad. Not that I can tell the difference in terms of speed vs. watts.
I think the "weight" and "aero" benefits of anything you can buy in the Drop Shop really only affect racing. I mean, yeah, if you compare your time on the same course with the Zwift Steel bike with Classic wheels, compared to, say the Canyon Ultimate with the DT Swiss wheels, the former will be significantly slower. But outside of racing, does that matter? It only really matters if you're playing the game, instead of just using it as a fitness tool.
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Old 11-26-21, 06:17 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I think the "weight" and "aero" benefits of anything you can buy in the Drop Shop really only affect racing. I mean, yeah, if you compare your time on the same course with the Zwift Steel bike with Classic wheels, compared to, say the Canyon Ultimate with the DT Swiss wheels, the former will be significantly slower. But outside of racing, does that matter? It only really matters if you're playing the game, instead of just using it as a fitness tool.
agree. It's why after about 3 seasons of zwift I still hall only the stock equipment. And the glow in the dark bike but even after a few months of that I've returned to the original bike. I am sporting a lime green kit now.
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Old 11-26-21, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I think the "weight" and "aero" benefits of anything you can buy in the Drop Shop really only affect racing. I mean, yeah, if you compare your time on the same course with the Zwift Steel bike with Classic wheels, compared to, say the Canyon Ultimate with the DT Swiss wheels, the former will be significantly slower. But outside of racing, does that matter? It only really matters if you're playing the game, instead of just using it as a fitness tool.
Maybe so, but I do some races now and again, and if there's a tangible difference, I'm not self-aware enough to be detecting it.
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Old 11-26-21, 09:30 PM
  #38  
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I just started on Zwift, looks like I have a lot to learn.
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Old 11-26-21, 09:45 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Warbird21 View Post
I just started on Zwift, looks like I have a lot to learn.
Lesson 1: Go into your garage/settings and select the Everest Challenge now. Then forget about it until you've unlocked the Tron bike.

😎
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Old 11-26-21, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tempocyclist View Post
Lesson 1: Go into your garage/settings and select the Everest Challenge now. Then forget about it until you've unlocked the Tron bike.

😎
I don't recall picking a challenge, so I had to Google it. But, I don't see "Challenges" from my menu page. I'm out of town not paired, is that the issue? (told you I'm a rookie!)
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Old 11-26-21, 10:38 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Maybe so, but I do some races now and again, and if there's a tangible difference, I'm not self-aware enough to be detecting it.
First Zwift race I did, I pipped the guy at the line by 0.1 second. So, I figure there's no harm in taking advantage of whatever's available.

But, yeah - there's no bike on Zwift that will make me - a D on the cusp of C-ness - into a B or an A.
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Old 11-26-21, 10:52 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tempocyclist View Post
Lesson 1: Go into your garage/settings and select the Everest Challenge now. Then forget about it until you've unlocked the Tron bike.

😎
Wish I had been given that advice when I started. I didn't select the Everest Challenge until I was level 20 something. I STILL don't have the Tron bike (but I'm getting closer).
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Old 11-27-21, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
First Zwift race I did, I pipped the guy at the line by 0.1 second. So, I figure there's no harm in taking advantage of whatever's available.

But, yeah - there's no bike on Zwift that will make me - a D on the cusp of C-ness - into a B or an A.
Yep, marginal gains much like in real life. But gains nonetheless if racing. There's a guide on Zwift Insider to the best frame/wheel choices for climbing, flats etc and best buys as you move up through the levels
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Old 12-01-21, 01:39 PM
  #44  
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All the Pace Partners were in Makuri Islands last night when I went to ride. And instead of sticking to the flats, Coco was doing "Kappa Quest" which has the Temple KOM, which is 1.55 miles of 3.6% average, but with some bits as high as 10%. That made trying to stick within a meter of Coco pretty much impossible, but not too hard to stick with the group.
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Old 12-01-21, 02:55 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
All the Pace Partners were in Makuri Islands last night when I went to ride. And instead of sticking to the flats, Coco was doing "Kappa Quest" which has the Temple KOM, which is 1.55 miles of 3.6% average, but with some bits as high as 10%. That made trying to stick within a meter of Coco pretty much impossible, but not too hard to stick with the group.
But I was riding with Coco on Tik Tok in Watopia from about 9-11 PM (CST) last night. Are there two sets now?
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Old 12-01-21, 03:07 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
But I was riding with Coco on Tik Tok in Watopia from about 9-11 PM (CST) last night. Are there two sets now?
Dunno. I was on from 6 till about 7:10 PST so we overlapped, and Coco was still running around the same loop then.

It's possible they're running in both. I warmed up in Watopia, but after doing a spindown calibration, I ended that ride. When I was choosing a new route, I think Zwift defaulted to the Makuri Island tab, even though I'd just been riding in Watopia, so that's where they showed up.

Makuri Islands is still up tonight. Give it a try! As an aside - you ride from 9-11? Doesn't it mess with your sleep? Last time I did a hard ride starting at 8PM I couldn't get to sleep till about 1.
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Old 12-01-21, 03:12 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Dunno. I was on from 6 till about 7:10 PST so we overlapped, and Coco was still running around the same loop then.

It's possible they're running in both. I warmed up in Watopia, but after doing a spindown calibration, I ended that ride. When I was choosing a new route, I think Zwift defaulted to the Makuri Island tab, even though I'd just been riding in Watopia, so that's where they showed up.

Makuri Islands is still up tonight. Give it a try! As an aside - you ride from 9-11? Doesn't it mess with your sleep? Last time I did a hard ride starting at 8PM I couldn't get to sleep till about 1.
Cool - pace partners in two worlds now. That's great!

I can't go to sleep directly after riding, but I only need a relatively brief interval in between. Generally, I can go to sleep an hour or two after I ride. So if I finish at 11, I can be asleep by midnight or 12:30. At my age, I don't sleep as many hours as I used to, so I'm up at 7 or 7:30, no problem.
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Old 12-01-21, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Cool - pace partners in two worlds now. That's great!

I can't go to sleep directly after riding, but I only need a relatively brief interval in between. Generally, I can go to sleep an hour or two after I ride. So if I finish at 11, I can be asleep by midnight or 12:30. At my age, I don't sleep as many hours as I used to, so I'm up at 7 or 7:30, no problem.
Yeah, and like I said, the experience with Coco on Kappa Quest is VERY different from Watopia.
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Old 12-01-21, 03:57 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Yeah, and like I said, the experience with Coco on Kappa Quest is VERY different from Watopia.
I was surprised also to see Coco cadence riding Kappa Quest last evening. Got a good ride in, even if I went off the front on the KOM climb.
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Old 12-01-21, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by redcon1 View Post
I was surprised also to see Coco cadence riding Kappa Quest last evening. Got a good ride in, even if I went off the front on the KOM climb.
I went up the KOM 3 times - 2 with Coco and the 3rd time I went off the front and left the group. That climb has so many little gradient changes, even negative gradient sections, that I had to watch Coco's flag on the bottom of the screen to make sure I didn't get too far ahead. Then we'd hit the low or negative gradient sections and I had to sprint to catch up if I didn't ramp up my power before she got back up to me. Quite the change from Watopia, where I can easily stick within +/- 3 m of her.
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