Notices
Indoor & Stationary Cycling Forum From spin to Zwift to Peloton, this forum is dedicated to any and all indoor training on stationary bikes

Zwift Changes Focus

Old 05-12-22, 08:30 AM
  #1  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Zwift Changes Focus

Looks like Zwift has given up on hardware and will focus on software. Big layoffs coming, too. Honestly, this is a good move. They're a software company, always have been. make that better, and either buy or merge with one of the "real life" sims to broaden it's appeal. Leave hardware to the companies dedicated to hardware.
dmanthree is offline  
Old 05-12-22, 10:55 AM
  #2  
blacknbluebikes 
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 928

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 491 Times in 244 Posts
As I take another look at the stock chart for Peloton...
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 05-12-22, 06:33 PM
  #3  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
As I take another look at the stock chart for Peloton...
Peleton's weakness is that the hardware and software are married. And it's really expensive.
dmanthree is offline  
Likes For dmanthree:
Old 05-13-22, 09:56 AM
  #4  
blacknbluebikes 
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 928

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 491 Times in 244 Posts
Very true. Add these factors: 1. Assume covid demand is permanent. 2. Put a child-eating treadmill on the market. num num. 3. Believe your own hype.
Heard today they're planning to introduce a rowing machine. Who wants a millenial cheerleader yelling at you on a rower to Lady Gaga? Just like cycling is not spinning ("Third position people"), I don't see how rowing fits into their "go to classes" model. Not selling my C3 just yet...
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 10:18 AM
  #5  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,114

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5455 Post(s)
Liked 5,724 Times in 2,921 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Peleton's weakness is that the hardware and software are married. And it's really expensive.
Isn't the other problem that the resistance is controlled manually? That is, you have to turn the knob yourself, it doesn't adjust automatically like a Smart trainer. I think that relegates it to "workout machine" vs "virtual cycling tool" - it's excluded from all the virtual cycling apps, and the nature of having to change the resistance manually makes it unlike cycling IRL, where you encounter sudden sharp climbs, rollers, long climbs with varying pitches, etc.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 11:18 AM
  #6  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Isn't the other problem that the resistance is controlled manually? That is, you have to turn the knob yourself, it doesn't adjust automatically like a Smart trainer. I think that relegates it to "workout machine" vs "virtual cycling tool" - it's excluded from all the virtual cycling apps, and the nature of having to change the resistance manually makes it unlike cycling IRL, where you encounter sudden sharp climbs, rollers, long climbs with varying pitches, etc.
Yes, the device isn't "smart" and that's another drawback. But if you're using Zwift and a smart trainer, and Zwift goes away, you have lots of other choices. With Peleton, well, if they go under you're left with a big heavy doorstop.
dmanthree is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 11:26 AM
  #7  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,114

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5455 Post(s)
Liked 5,724 Times in 2,921 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Yes, the device isn't "smart" and that's another drawback. But if you're using Zwift and a smart trainer, and Zwift goes away, you have lots of other choices. With Peleton, well, if they go under you're left with a big heavy doorstop.
Right. Peloton bikes could become the Betamax of exercise bikes. And even if Peloton DOESN'T go away, you're entirely limited to their content. I wonder how many people who have Peloton bikes have heard about Zwift and want to try it out, only to learn they really can't.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 11:40 AM
  #8  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Right. Peloton bikes could become the Betamax of exercise bikes. And even if Peloton DOESN'T go away, you're entirely limited to their content. I wonder how many people who have Peloton bikes have heard about Zwift and want to try it out, only to learn they really can't.
About a month ago, when I was explaining to someone I had just met, and why I'm moving in doors, they asked, with an incredulous look, "why would you not get a Peleton?" I wimped out and gave them a polite, but true answer: Peleton is a spin class, I was looking for a road simulation. I didn't want to list all the other reason that peleton is, for me, a really bad idea.
dmanthree is offline  
Likes For dmanthree:
Old 05-13-22, 01:26 PM
  #9  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 1,418

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 691 Post(s)
Liked 690 Times in 406 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
About a month ago, when I was explaining to someone I had just met, and why I'm moving in doors, they asked, with an incredulous look, "why would you not get a Peleton?" I wimped out and gave them a polite, but true answer: Peleton is a spin class, I was looking for a road simulation. I didn't want to list all the other reason that peleton is, for me, a really bad idea.
if they had a peloton then you probably did the right thing. if they don't then you might have educated them if they were in the market for such a bike. my sister's turned into a laundry rack after a while.
spelger is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 01:52 PM
  #10  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,114

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5455 Post(s)
Liked 5,724 Times in 2,921 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
About a month ago, when I was explaining to someone I had just met, and why I'm moving in doors, they asked, with an incredulous look, "why would you not get a Peleton?" I wimped out and gave them a polite, but true answer: Peleton is a spin class, I was looking for a road simulation. I didn't want to list all the other reason that peleton is, for me, a really bad idea.
That's a good way to put it.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 04:30 PM
  #11  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,048 Posts
Not that I'm in the market for Peloton myself, but I believe there is a much wider market for their product than there is for Zwift. Even our retired neighbours have one for home exercise and they don't even own bikes. There is also a "smart" version of their bike i.e. Peloton Bike+

DC Rainmaker put out an interesting review of the Peloton Bike+ which was a lot more positive than I expected.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/02/...th-review.html

As I said, Peloton is not for me, but I can see the appeal. Spin classes are pretty popular among the masses. Simulated road cycling not so much!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 05-13-22, 06:38 PM
  #12  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Not that I'm in the market for Peloton myself, but I believe there is a much wider market for their product than there is for Zwift. Even our retired neighbours have one for home exercise and they don't even own bikes. There is also a "smart" version of their bike i.e. Peloton Bike+

DC Rainmaker put out an interesting review of the Peloton Bike+ which was a lot more positive than I expected.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/02/...th-review.html

As I said, Peloton is not for me, but I can see the appeal. Spin classes are pretty popular among the masses. Simulated road cycling not so much!
I agree; the product is not for me, but I know a few people who swear by it. hell, if it gets them off the couch and sweating, well, that's a win.
dmanthree is offline  
Likes For dmanthree:
Old 05-14-22, 05:59 AM
  #13  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,048 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I agree; the product is not for me, but I know a few people who swear by it. hell, if it gets them off the couch and sweating, well, that's a win.
A lot of "cyclists" seem to turn their nose up at Peloton, but they are totally missing the point. Spin classes are popular and most people in that market want a packaged solution that just works out of the box. Zwift is obviously a better choice for cycling simulation but that's a relatively small crowd, even among dedicated cyclists.

I have mixed feelings about Zwift giving up on the hardware. Had they managed to create a universal hardware platform it may have helped them to create a level playing field in races (maybe holding specific events exclusive to their hardware users), rather than the random mash-up of contraptions people are currently using. For that reason I've never taken Zwift racing seriously. You may as well be racing a bunch of bots. On the other hand ditching the hardware could put more focus on developing their software. If they were going to merge, it would make sense to go with one of the leading hardware manufacturers i.e. Wahoo or Tacx. I guess the former is now very unlikely given their recent acquisition of RGT.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 05-14-22, 11:38 AM
  #14  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
A lot of "cyclists" seem to turn their nose up at Peloton, but they are totally missing the point. Spin classes are popular and most people in that market want a packaged solution that just works out of the box. Zwift is obviously a better choice for cycling simulation but that's a relatively small crowd, even among dedicated cyclists.

I have mixed feelings about Zwift giving up on the hardware. Had they managed to create a universal hardware platform it may have helped them to create a level playing field in races (maybe holding specific events exclusive to their hardware users), rather than the random mash-up of contraptions people are currently using. For that reason I've never taken Zwift racing seriously. You may as well be racing a bunch of bots. On the other hand ditching the hardware could put more focus on developing their software. If they were going to merge, it would make sense to go with one of the leading hardware manufacturers i.e. Wahoo or Tacx. I guess the former is now very unlikely given their recent acquisition of RGT.
Well, I've never taken anuy "E" sports seriously. Way too easy to cheat. Rigged power meters, speed sensors, weight lying, etc. Not the reason I use the platforms.

But yes, for lots of people, Peleton works, and that's great...for them.
dmanthree is offline  
Old 05-14-22, 02:30 PM
  #15  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,048 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Well, I've never taken anuy "E" sports seriously. Way too easy to cheat. Rigged power meters, speed sensors, weight lying, etc. Not the reason I use the platforms.

But yes, for lots of people, Peleton works, and that's great...for them.
I agree same here. But if Zwift was a closed platform like Peloton then there would be less cheating and far less unintentional power variation among users (presuming the hardware was consistent). But it's not a big deal for me as I'm not racing competitively on Zwift (only bettering my own performance).

My comment about Peloton was really that it shouldn't really be compared against Zwift as it's in a completely different market. I would argue that Peloton's closed eco-system is its strength rather than its weakness in that market. DC Rainmaker made that point several times in his detailed review.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 05-15-22, 07:36 AM
  #16  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I agree same here. But if Zwift was a closed platform like Peloton then there would be less cheating and far less unintentional power variation among users (presuming the hardware was consistent). But it's not a big deal for me as I'm not racing competitively on Zwift (only bettering my own performance).

My comment about Peloton was really that it shouldn't really be compared against Zwift as it's in a completely different market. I would argue that Peloton's closed eco-system is its strength rather than its weakness in that market. DC Rainmaker made that point several times in his detailed review.
The difference is, to me, that if one side goes away there are other choices. Zwift goes under? Use another platform. Tacx leaves the market? Use another brand. With Peleton it's all or nothing. And that's fine as long as they're viable.
dmanthree is offline  
Old 05-15-22, 08:25 AM
  #17  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,048 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
The difference is, to me, that if one side goes away there are other choices. Zwift goes under? Use another platform. Tacx leaves the market? Use another brand. With Peleton it's all or nothing. And that's fine as long as they're viable.
Yeah, can't argue with that from a customer perspective. But if I was Zwift I would be a bit concerned about being totally dependent on third party hardware that I had no control over. Now that Wahoo has acquired both Sufferfest and RGT they could choose to make life awkward for Zwift by bundling hardware/software solutions. As a perfect example, I have just suspended my Zwift subscription simply because I now get free access to RGT via my Wahoo subscription (not that I think RGT is as good as Zwift today, but it saves me a whole subscription). How long before Wahoo start bundling compelling hardware/software packages, effectively leaving Zwift out in the cold? Presumably that's exactly why they bought these software providers. Then there's Garmin, having acquired Tacx. Surely Garmin will be sniffing around the software side of the business too?

Looking at it another way, if Zwift had successfully launched a compelling hardware platform and made their software exclusive to it (or at least provided exclusive features) then they would have totally dominated the entire market like Peloton have in their own field. DC Rainmaker made a similar comment in this article a couple of years ago.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/02/...ns-to-you.html

Last edited by PeteHski; 05-15-22 at 08:32 AM.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 05-18-22, 07:30 AM
  #18  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,535
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3136 Post(s)
Liked 1,813 Times in 1,062 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
The difference is, to me, that if one side goes away there are other choices. Zwift goes under? Use another platform. Tacx leaves the market? Use another brand. With Peleton it's all or nothing. And that's fine as long as they're viable.
Same could be said about apple products (at least in the early 2000s).
himespau is offline  
Old 05-18-22, 07:40 AM
  #19  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Same could be said about apple products (at least in the early 2000s).
For the computer and the OS, yes. But the application software is another matter. And you could always switch to a different OS and move the data if you want.
dmanthree is offline  
Old 05-18-22, 08:05 AM
  #20  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,535
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3136 Post(s)
Liked 1,813 Times in 1,062 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
For the computer and the OS, yes. But the application software is another matter. And you could always switch to a different OS and move the data if you want.
I was thinking more about the iPod and how you were locked into iTunes with it. To me, it seemed risky at the time. Looking back, that seems a bit silly.
himespau is offline  
Old 05-18-22, 10:49 AM
  #21  
dmanthree
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,555

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I was thinking more about the iPod and how you were locked into iTunes with it. To me, it seemed risky at the time. Looking back, that seems a bit silly.
True, once you're in the Apple ecosystem it's hard to get out. BTW, did you see they're discontinuing the iPod touch? Isn't this their last one?
dmanthree is offline  
Old 05-19-22, 11:32 AM
  #22  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,048 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
True, once you're in the Apple ecosystem it's hard to get out. BTW, did you see they're discontinuing the iPod touch? Isn't this their last one?
Yes, it is the last iPod
PeteHski is offline  
Old 05-19-22, 03:20 PM
  #23  
Ed Wiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 69 Posts
Apple ecosystem is so much better than dealing with a separate computer and separate os. As some one in the tech business. I learned that years ago. Itís great to make money off of people who use windows. But when I got home I enjoy the calm MacOS system.
Ed Wiser is offline  
Old 05-19-22, 04:42 PM
  #24  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,048 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Wiser View Post
Apple ecosystem is so much better than dealing with a separate computer and separate os. As some one in the tech business. I learned that years ago. Itís great to make money off of people who use windows. But when I got home I enjoy the calm MacOS system.
+1
Having suffered the PC/Windows environment for many years, I bought my first iMac in 2002 (with the really cool angle-poise arm) and never looked back. Not having to re-boot it several times a day following software crashes was a novelty at first!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 05-19-22, 07:47 PM
  #25  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,500 Posts
I had a number of ipods and never had itunes. No reason for me to do that.
unterhausen is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.