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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 07-08-15, 07:55 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Probably not. I have to go to work and find biking the most pleasant way to do it, but some days it's still a chore and I do it because taking the bus would be a bigger chore. If I didn't have to work every day I likely wouldn't bike every day and I'd probably do fewer miles. However I stil might choose the bike over the car or bus for many errands, partly because I enjoy it, partly because I need the exercise and partly for the environment.
I always found that the biggest "chore" was getting on the bike and setting off down the driveway. Once aboard, the drudgery almost always turned to pleasure--even in rain or snow. (A heavy headwind, maybe not so much!)
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Old 07-08-15, 08:31 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Many if not most people find driving their car is much less of a chore than commuting by bike or bus, and are unlikely to voluntarily start commuting by means that are considered more of a chore or a drudge.
Yes of course. That's why only a small minority bike commute. It's too bad, because it's partly due to prejudice/misconceptions. As the Copenhagen and Amsterdam experience show, the potential pool of bike commuters is much large than many people (over here) realize, and if the infrastructure and culture support it, a lot more people will do it. And enjoy it !

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Old 07-08-15, 09:03 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
OK... before clouds... offices ran off servers... even though many employees didn't understand they were. You are thinking two dimensionally (sorry). Everyone is already in the house! Nothing changes. The "spaces" that your thinking about are constructs... preconceived ideas. The "desk" from the last century... has less and less usefulness.



Really vague. If you are talking about proprietary programs and equipment... the employer may not be willing to let those out of their direct span of control (I wouldn't). If you're talking about the tools and software to do your job which are commercially available.... isn't that YOUR responsibility. Don't forget... once the employer goes on-line you're in competition with everyone in the world. Most of us have our own tools!

About three decades ago... there was a book called Future Shock by Alvin Toffler. You might want to read it (it is still available) and think about how your viewing the world.
Two dimensional by what, again?

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
With my poor typing/spelling/grammar skills you want me to educate you on the whole (or parts) of world history that predates... what... yesterday? I don't think so. I doubt you'd read it anyway. There are endless numbers of books that educate and inform us as to how we got here. Everyday... you chose NOT to read one.

There is no google search... 3-7 second read... that will inform you on our cultural evolution.
...what the hell are you talking about?

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Old 07-08-15, 10:30 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
There have been experiments with automated/robotic pickers for apples in the US. There are significant issues, and they expensive ones, to overcome.
I didn't know about those experiments, though blackberries and blueberries have been tried mechanically. Blueberries might make it, but those thorns that were impossible to remove from the blackberries kind of slowed down the automated picking of that crop.

But I thought you pruned trees. Try automating that, unless they can breed trees that don't need it. My dwarf pear tree only needs a very light touch.
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Old 07-08-15, 12:55 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
..... BTW - I'm puzzled why I should throw a party this weekend????
Same advice I might give if you were considering retirement. If you're considering not going off to work... leaving that peer group... test your (home based) social network. You may find you have tons of connections without your job/worksite friends. You may find work has caused you to overlook that part of your relationships.

Ether way... you'll know. The first step in resolving any problem... is establishing what it is.
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Old 07-08-15, 01:14 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by jfowler85 View Post
Two dimensional by what, again?
Two dimensions... front and back, left and right..... a phrase used to express a limited view of the environment.

Once you convert to digital, with cloud computing... the need for file cabinets, or even drawers full of pens, pencils, and notepads.... become obsolete. You have to set aside the old 2D paradigm of walking into this room to do this... and going over there to do that. Talking can become texting... and so on.

Originally Posted by jfowler85 View Post
...what the hell are you talking about?
Not about.... but, to. I was posting (not talking) to cooker. You've got to read it all to keep up.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-08-15 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 07-08-15, 03:05 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Once you convert to digital, with cloud computing... the need for file cabinets, or even drawers full of pens, pencils, and notepads.... become obsolete.
Depending on your tasks, and your focus, you may still need a proper desk and chair, a large monitor, and some peace and quiet. I've never been able to get much work done in the car passenger seat, the living room, or a cafe. So we still need to pay attention to some old fashioned architectural considerations.
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Old 07-08-15, 05:55 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Depending on your tasks, and your focus, you may still need a proper desk and chair, a large monitor, and some peace and quiet. I've never been able to get much work done in the car passenger seat, the living room, or a cafe. So we still need to pay attention to some old fashioned architectural considerations.
+1

Or ... in my case ... at least two large monitors.

We had to evacuate for a couple weeks (asbestos) a couple months ago, and were all set up in a room with laptops with 15" monitors ... one laptop with one monitor each. Was that ever difficult to work with!! I was busy trying to produce a set of reports at that time, and my speed slowed to about half what it normally is.


I also need quiet and a place free from distractions to work.

I've never worked from home, but thinking about how I am doing homework projects for uni ...

The only way I've been able to get anything done in a café-type setting is when the place has been completely empty of customers, and I've been able to tuck myself away in a corner out of ear-shot of the staff. One school I attended had such a place across the street, and I'd go there to have a coffee and muffin in the morning. I could stay there for about an hour before the onslaught of customers.

And I can do stuff that doesn't require too much concentration while sitting in the living room, but as soon as I need to focus, I have to retreat to our home office.

Last edited by Machka; 07-08-15 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 07-08-15, 06:01 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by enigmaT120 View Post
I didn't know about those experiments, though blackberries and blueberries have been tried mechanically. Blueberries might make it, but those thorns that were impossible to remove from the blackberries kind of slowed down the automated picking of that crop.

But I thought you pruned trees. Try automating that, unless they can breed trees that don't need it. My dwarf pear tree only needs a very light touch.
He supervises the picking ... and then when that's finished, he does it all on the property for the rest of the year. Including lots of pruning. But you're right, I think automating pruning would be really difficult.


There are mechanical pickers for raspberries, and have been for years, but they only run them after people have been through several times and have picked the good stuff. The mechanical pickers operate by shaking the raspberry bushes and hoping the remaining, slightly over-ripe raspberries will fall off. That fruit is not high quality and is often used in jams, etc. (I used to work for a raspberry orchard)
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Old 07-08-15, 09:03 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Depending on your tasks, and your focus, you may still need a proper desk and chair, a large monitor, and some peace and quiet. I've never been able to get much work done.......
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
+1

Or ... in my case ... at least two large monitors.

And I can do stuff that doesn't require too much concentration while sitting in the living room, but as soon as I need to focus, I have to retreat to our home office.
Well.... I guess many of us do have our "special needs" and "best set-ups". I used to use two video cards in my PC to support two monitors when creating/rewriting documents. But that was back in the old Netscape 4.6, windows 98 days. Everything [software] is tabbed now-a-days. I did use my home office when I pounded through an extensive on-line certification class. I did some of the classes at work but found the regular distractions.... a little too distracting. But if the tasking would have been an ongoing effort... I am sure I would have adapted.

My wife has a huge monitor and a desktop PC. That is the type of setup she has used since '95. I don't expect her to change... if she doesn't have to.

There are "needs" and "desires" as to how we work. Some are real... others are just expectations. It isn't always easy to determine what "needs to be"... and what "has always been". I have known people who printed out their documents so they could then lay their work out on their desk tops. Sort through the data with circling, highlighting, and underlings and then re-type the data. Of course.... they wasted most of their time. But it was the method they had used for years before the desktop PC.

I worked with one woman who printed all emails and documents because she believed reading on the monitor made her sleepy.

New methods aren't always easier. Sometimes... they are just much faster and therefore cheaper. Technology advances should make us more productive... faster. People often see their workload as finite. Then they organize their processes to allow for the workload to match the allotted time. All that changes with automation. Work-at-home or off-site production... can be very competitive. Workloads are sometimes even broken down into hours (or quarters of an hour). The nature of the workloads can eliminate to idea of a 40 hour every week fulltime employee.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-08-15 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 07-09-15, 03:07 AM
  #61  
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Yes, of course ... different jobs require different set ups. One person might use word processors almost exclusively. Another might use spreadsheets and databases. Another might use graphics software. Another might use some other type of specialty software.

Some might be able to do all their work with a small tablet ... others need to open and work with multiple spreadsheets over multiple screens.

Some of us still work with old software ... and yes, many of us still work with paper. We might be able to think of more efficient ways of doing things ... but our offices might not be willing to make the change at this point for one reason or another.

These are some of the issues which need to be addressed when it comes to the idea of working from home.
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Old 07-09-15, 03:22 AM
  #62  
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I work from home, say one day a week in average. If I do more I get cabin fever so for when not travelling office it is

-Garth
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Old 07-09-15, 03:35 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by enigmaT120 View Post
I didn't know about those experiments, though blackberries and blueberries have been tried mechanically. Blueberries might make it, but those thorns that were impossible to remove from the blackberries kind of slowed down the automated picking of that crop.

But I thought you pruned trees. Try automating that, unless they can breed trees that don't need it. My dwarf pear tree only needs a very light touch.
The issue with automating pruning, or even picking, is that the orchard needs trees that are as close to identical to each other as possible in form (shape, height, limb density). And therein lies the issue for technology... nature isn't particularly disposed to creating identical anythings.

An expert pruner or picker, I would imagine, would be safe in work for a long, long time, simply because of their speed.

Of course, the simple solution "technological" solution for some orchardists is quite basic -- by running a saw across the top and along the sides of the rows of trees to complete their pruning. But that can cause major issues with growing habit on many varieties.
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Old 07-09-15, 07:20 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Two dimensions... front and back, left and right..... a phrase used to express a limited view of the environment.

Once you convert to digital, with cloud computing... the need for file cabinets, or even drawers full of pens, pencils, and notepads.... become obsolete. You have to set aside the old 2D paradigm of walking into this room to do this... and going over there to do that. Talking can become texting... and so on.



Not about.... but, to. I was posting (not talking) to cooker. You've got to read it all to keep up.
So, it's bad to think linearly? And why are notepads obsolete again? So, when I walk into a room, I'm supposed to text what I'm doing instead of thinking about it...? Or am I supposed to put my daily plans into the cloud instead of making a grocery list?

I am clear who you are talking to according to your post quote. I am unclear what in the **** you are rambling about. You're too esoteric and nonsensical.

Last edited by jfowler85; 07-09-15 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 07-09-15, 08:28 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by jfowler85 View Post
..... I am unclear what in the **** you are rambling about. You're too esoteric and nonsensical.
I haven't ranted yet. Sorry you can't keep up. Maybe you should consider not reading my posts.


If you're an "old-fashioned sit at the employers desk" worker. And.... you get ran over while out cycling one evening.... your contacts, appointment, notes, calendar, are right there in your old desk. The people working beside you my be able to pick up the slack till you return, or are replaced.

BUT... If you work at home... that same valuable information should be on the cloud. A properly written job description will allow for the off-site work to posted for bids from other vendors.

If you are just performing hourly wage work.... maybe that same wage/work could be contracted out for less money to someone else.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-09-15 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 07-09-15, 08:47 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
...... Some of us still work with old software ... and yes, many of us still work with paper. We might be able to think of more efficient ways of doing things ... but our offices might not be willing to make the change at this point for one reason or another.

These are some of the issues which need to be addressed when it comes to the idea of working from home.
This.... is what I'd be most concerned about when converting a position to a work-at-home position.

The human resources dept. may (eventually) see the work-at-home position, as a conversion to a off-site contract-vendor position. Meaning... you may no-longer be considered an employee. (You may) only be considered a contractor, or vendor. Then maybe put up for re-bid from time-to-time. When moving a position off site... some employers will see that as a demonstration that the position is no-longer needed in-house.

In a competitive world/industry... this can be an appealing way for a business to reduce overall costs. However for an employee... it reduces the leverage the individual has for wages and benefits.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-09-15 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 07-09-15, 09:21 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Well.... I guess many of us do have our "special needs" and "best set-ups". I used to use two video cards in my PC to support two monitors when creating/rewriting documents. But that was back in the old Netscape 4.6, windows 98 days. Everything [software] is tabbed now-a-days. I did use my home office when I pounded through an extensive on-line certification class. I did some of the classes at work but found the regular distractions.... a little too distracting. But if the tasking would have been an ongoing effort... I am sure I would have adapted.

My wife has a huge monitor and a desktop PC. That is the type of setup she has used since '95. I don't expect her to change... if she doesn't have to.

There are "needs" and "desires" as to how we work. Some are real... others are just expectations. It isn't always easy to determine what "needs to be"... and what "has always been". I have known people who printed out their documents so they could then lay their work out on their desk tops. Sort through the data with circling, highlighting, and underlings and then re-type the data. Of course.... they wasted most of their time. But it was the method they had used for years before the desktop PC.

I worked with one woman who printed all emails and documents because she believed reading on the monitor made her sleepy.

New methods aren't always easier. Sometimes... they are just much faster and therefore cheaper. Technology advances should make us more productive... faster. People often see their workload as finite. Then they organize their processes to allow for the workload to match the allotted time. All that changes with automation. Work-at-home or off-site production... can be very competitive. Workloads are sometimes even broken down into hours (or quarters of an hour). The nature of the workloads can eliminate to idea of a 40 hour every week fulltime employee.
"Special needs" eh? She "believed" it made her sleepy. Those people, including your wife, are working in the way that is most comfortable or productive for them. IT people need to support what works for users, not force them into preconceived notions of how automation is supposed to change their work habits.
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Old 07-09-15, 11:16 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
"Special needs" eh? She "believed" it made her sleepy. Those people, including your wife, are working in the way that is most comfortable or productive for them. IT people need to support what works for users, not force them into preconceived notions of how automation is supposed to change their work habits.
Maybe! Maybe the entire business is my property.. and everyone works to increase my wealth... or they can hit-the-bricks. Or after taxes and unfortunate losses there isn't any profits. And cuts must be made.... or everyone losses their job.

LONG before we had IT departments... technology changed the way we worked. Factories went from small shops with forges and blacksmiths... to poured molds and large numbers of line-workers. My very own grandfather.... was the 1st non-horse (truck only) teamster in his local. Nothing new here.

As people live longer.... changing becomes more important.

I was never a fan of organizational structures being formatted in the IT departments. Although that often does happen that way.... it isn't their area of expertise! But how or who determines how what is done... isn't an issue. You are ether considered on top of your game... or your something less than "on top".

When asking your employer... or being asked by an employer.... to work off-site. It might be smart to consider who is bending to what request, demand, or benefit. Is the employer saving on ever more valuable space and preserving the retention of a highly valued employee? Or is this a trial-run for farming out, or out sourcing, work that is more competitively done by vendors?

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-09-15 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 07-09-15, 12:10 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
I haven't ranted yet. Sorry you can't keep up. Maybe you should consider not reading my posts.


If you're an "old-fashioned sit at the employers desk" worker. And.... you get ran over while out cycling one evening.... your contacts, appointment, notes, calendar, are right there in your old desk. The people working beside you my be able to pick up the slack till you return, or are replaced.

BUT... If you work at home... that same valuable information should be on the cloud. A properly written job description will allow for the off-site work to posted for bids from other vendors.

If you are just performing hourly wage work.... maybe that same wage/work could be contracted out for less money to someone else.
I didn't say rant, I said ramble. I can appreciate a rant, but incoherent rambling is another way of talking out of one's ass.

Working at an employer's physical location is now old fashioned? According to who, besides you? Did you read this in Forbes? No, you didn't. You're just bumbling along about some IT-based home employment running on a cloud server. You do realize the cloud is just an offsite or remote access server, right? So what's the difference between using the cloud and a sharedrive at an employer's physical location? The data I edit can be accessed by any employee with the proper administrative privileges because it's saved on a local hard drive which every approved network user has access to. No cloud needed, it's all on site. If I get run over on the way home tonight, I call into work and my supervisor has another employee cover me...nothing is lost forever in this hypothetical desk of yours, and no cloud server is needed to recover productivity in my absence. Do you see how nothing you are saying makes any sense?

Though I'm not an hourly employee, I suppose it is possible for me to be replaced by a contracted 1099 temp, but the union would make that very difficult to accomplish.

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Old 07-09-15, 01:01 PM
  #70  
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Before the Internet i used to do software development work for people under contract by exchanging files using a phone modem, starting at 300 baud. And used to debate topics and share information over BBS "sites" (no internet - your computer dials the BBS computer which has 1-n phone lines to receive calls).

The Internet makes it all easier.
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Old 07-09-15, 01:14 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
When asking your employer... or being asked by an employer.... to work off-site. It might be smart to consider who is bending to what request, demand, or benefit. Is the employer saving on ever more valuable space and preserving the retention of a highly valued employee? Or is this a trial-run for farming out, or out sourcing, work that is more competitively done by vendors?
These are good points, although there's already been a lot of laying off and "farming out" that wasn't preceded by working from home.
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Old 07-09-15, 03:54 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by jfowler85 View Post
... I suppose it is possible for me to be replaced by a contracted 1099 temp, but the union would make that very difficult to accomplish.
Well thank God for those union bosses... huh.

Originally Posted by jfowler85 View Post
.... So what's the difference between using the cloud and a sharedrive at an employer's physical location? The data I edit can be accessed by any employee with the proper administrative privileges because it's saved on a local hard drive which every approved network user has access to. No cloud needed, it's all on site......
Yeah... I set-up an FTP server in my basement office back in 2001 so family members in other states could transfer pictures. Pretty simple stuff. I guess not every workplace needs any stink'in modern technological advances. I really don't think your catching on to my posts.

Originally Posted by cooker View Post
..... there's already been a lot of laying off and "farming out" that wasn't preceded by working from home.
I guess not everyone is protected by a union rep.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-09-15 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 07-09-15, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Well thank God for those union bosses... huh.

I guess not everyone is protected by a union rep.
Yep, unions offer some protection to people who have one, and not to people without one - doh!
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Old 07-09-15, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Yep, unions offer some protection to people who have one, and not to people without one - doh!
Some people really need those protections.... I would guess.
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Old 07-09-15, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
The human resources dept. may (eventually) see the work-at-home position, as a conversion to a off-site contract-vendor position. Meaning... you may no-longer be considered an employee. (You may) only be considered a contractor, or vendor. Then maybe put up for re-bid from time-to-time.
This is how a lot of businesses already operate, even with their in-house staff.

Over the past decade, I've spent most of it as a contract employee rather than a "full-time permanent" ... and so did most of the staff I worked with.

Rather than having a large HR department, many businesses use employment agencies.
Rather than having a large full-time permanent staff who are more difficult to let go if the economy isn't good, many businesses hire temporary or contract staff.
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