Houston just dramatically improved its mass transit system without spending a dime
#26
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I’m starting to see a number of complaints appear on the net. The objective was to make a faster system but this often means having the bus travel in a straight line or highway. I don’t mind walking or riding a bicycle several blocks but a lot of people want door to door service.
Senior communities were built around bus stops and now these same people have to walk several blocks. If you read the comments section in these links, people are not noticing any time saved because you have to transfer and time is wasted waiting for the second bus to arrive. Bottom line, you’re just going to have to accept the fact that you’ll walk more for bus service.
What’s my opinion on hub and spoke. It works if there are still jobs downtown and they haven’t moved to the suburbs. With my bicycle and the rack, I can travel pretty much everywhere using the bus’s bike racks. However, it’s not as efficient when there’s no service going east to west. People don't like to walk and would rather waste an hour and travel 5 miles downtown and catch another bus for door to door service. This is where change is needed in a traditional hub and spoke system. It needs a bus that travel east to west in a loop. Lets keep in mind, it was never intended to travel beyond 10 miles from the center.
I’m beginning to think the idea of having the bus travel 30 miles to the suburbs and attract more white riders is too much for the Houston system. The new bus stops are often located in locations with no bus shelters on dirt roads. Also, since they didn’t put more money in the system and hired more drivers, did people really expect more service when buses routes doubled in length?
I think a more attractive system for those living in the suburbs would be a park and ride commuter rail line or maybe lightrail that goes straight into the city.
Changing METRO bus route upsets residents of senior living facility | abc13.com
Residents of Fifth Ward struggling with new METRO bus routes | abc13.com
Senior communities were built around bus stops and now these same people have to walk several blocks. If you read the comments section in these links, people are not noticing any time saved because you have to transfer and time is wasted waiting for the second bus to arrive. Bottom line, you’re just going to have to accept the fact that you’ll walk more for bus service.
What’s my opinion on hub and spoke. It works if there are still jobs downtown and they haven’t moved to the suburbs. With my bicycle and the rack, I can travel pretty much everywhere using the bus’s bike racks. However, it’s not as efficient when there’s no service going east to west. People don't like to walk and would rather waste an hour and travel 5 miles downtown and catch another bus for door to door service. This is where change is needed in a traditional hub and spoke system. It needs a bus that travel east to west in a loop. Lets keep in mind, it was never intended to travel beyond 10 miles from the center.
I’m beginning to think the idea of having the bus travel 30 miles to the suburbs and attract more white riders is too much for the Houston system. The new bus stops are often located in locations with no bus shelters on dirt roads. Also, since they didn’t put more money in the system and hired more drivers, did people really expect more service when buses routes doubled in length?
I think a more attractive system for those living in the suburbs would be a park and ride commuter rail line or maybe lightrail that goes straight into the city.
Changing METRO bus route upsets residents of senior living facility | abc13.com
Residents of Fifth Ward struggling with new METRO bus routes | abc13.com
Basically, it does seem unrealistic to think you can make real improvements without increasing the service. Yes, you can spread it around differently, and you might tweak out some inefficiencies. But you can't make real systemic improvements without further investment.
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#27
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I suspect there are ways to increase service without a lot more spending, such as by keeping older buses in the fleet, etc., but often I think there is pressure to keep updating equipment to benefit the contractors selling the equipment. If a transit company starts increasing service while reducing spending, that raises expectations for others to do the same. So there are probably market actors watching efficiency gains and discouraging them in various ways. Imagine how much revenue would be lost if the cost of successful public transit started dropping.
#28
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Thread Starter
I suspect there are ways to increase service without a lot more spending, such as by keeping older buses in the fleet, etc., but often I think there is pressure to keep updating equipment to benefit the contractors selling the equipment. If a transit company starts increasing service while reducing spending, that raises expectations for others to do the same. So there are probably market actors watching efficiency gains and discouraging them in various ways. Imagine how much revenue would be lost if the cost of successful public transit started dropping.
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If your local transit company inspires so little trust, it's probably already in trouble. They need to be open and transparent at all times, or people will eventually quit voting for their public funding. In the long run, handling finances properly is much more important than even the quality of service. Voters pay attention to this stuff--and remember.
Sorry I can't contextualize this example in terms of buses or public transit, but hopefully you get the idea that the problem is spending a lot on a little instead of spending a little on a lot.
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What bothers me about mass transit systems, whether it be bus, light rail, trolly or what have you, is the lack of space to actually carry items on board. Shoppers are at a big disadvantage and at times the facilities to handle bicycles, wheel chairs and other bulky items are second thoughts it seems.
Wouldn't it be wonderful that some form of " shopping cart" designed to fit in a storage space under the cabin which could quickly be slid into place. These could be available for rent or what ever for shoppers to roll around with them while they are shopping and then slipped into its storage place on the bus.
What I am getting at is at the moment, the busses do well to get the people around but when they want to do serious shopping they will take a car or some other means if they have it just because they can't transport bulky items easily.
I think we do well as a people as long as we are not too inconvenienced and its easy.
I also believe there is a practical limit to how far people are willing to use a bicycle to commute. I think that limit is about 30 mins of time and about 5 or so miles or both. At that point then there must be some sort of mass transit system to take them closer to their destination or frankly the bike stays at home. How much time are we willing to spend going to and from work? Certainly from city to city the masses are not going to chose cycling.
Why do we use cars? Its not all because we are lazy or too old or too young. We need to ask ourselves that when we are thinking of mass transportation.
Make it doable. Make it practical ( as for as carrying bulky items) Make it dependable. ( people are not going to wait for the next bus more than about 10 minutes)
And I think most important, we need to convince ourselves its the right thing to do.
True change comes from within and from the people not the politicians.
I think we are getting there. We see hints of it every day. Recycling is one form of stewardship that has grown for example.
On the other hand we are so lazy, we wont put our shopping carts back in the cue when we are done and worse they are scattered throughout adjoining neighborhoods.
Sorry about the rambling and the mini rant. The take home message is make it more useful, more convenient and maybe the numbers would go up? Just my thoughts.
Bill C
Wouldn't it be wonderful that some form of " shopping cart" designed to fit in a storage space under the cabin which could quickly be slid into place. These could be available for rent or what ever for shoppers to roll around with them while they are shopping and then slipped into its storage place on the bus.
What I am getting at is at the moment, the busses do well to get the people around but when they want to do serious shopping they will take a car or some other means if they have it just because they can't transport bulky items easily.
I think we do well as a people as long as we are not too inconvenienced and its easy.
I also believe there is a practical limit to how far people are willing to use a bicycle to commute. I think that limit is about 30 mins of time and about 5 or so miles or both. At that point then there must be some sort of mass transit system to take them closer to their destination or frankly the bike stays at home. How much time are we willing to spend going to and from work? Certainly from city to city the masses are not going to chose cycling.
Why do we use cars? Its not all because we are lazy or too old or too young. We need to ask ourselves that when we are thinking of mass transportation.
Make it doable. Make it practical ( as for as carrying bulky items) Make it dependable. ( people are not going to wait for the next bus more than about 10 minutes)
And I think most important, we need to convince ourselves its the right thing to do.
True change comes from within and from the people not the politicians.
I think we are getting there. We see hints of it every day. Recycling is one form of stewardship that has grown for example.
On the other hand we are so lazy, we wont put our shopping carts back in the cue when we are done and worse they are scattered throughout adjoining neighborhoods.
Sorry about the rambling and the mini rant. The take home message is make it more useful, more convenient and maybe the numbers would go up? Just my thoughts.
Bill C
#31
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
What bothers me about mass transit systems, whether it be bus, light rail, trolly or what have you, is the lack of space to actually carry items on board. Shoppers are at a big disadvantage and at times the facilities to handle bicycles, wheel chairs and other bulky items are second thoughts it seems.
Wouldn't it be wonderful that some form of " shopping cart" designed to fit in a storage space under the cabin which could quickly be slid into place. These could be available for rent or what ever for shoppers to roll around with them while they are shopping and then slipped into its storage place on the bus.
What I am getting at is at the moment, the busses do well to get the people around but when they want to do serious shopping they will take a car or some other means if they have it just because they can't transport bulky items easily.
I think we do well as a people as long as we are not too inconvenienced and its easy.
I also believe there is a practical limit to how far people are willing to use a bicycle to commute. I think that limit is about 30 mins of time and about 5 or so miles or both. At that point then there must be some sort of mass transit system to take them closer to their destination or frankly the bike stays at home. How much time are we willing to spend going to and from work? Certainly from city to city the masses are not going to chose cycling.
Why do we use cars? Its not all because we are lazy or too old or too young. We need to ask ourselves that when we are thinking of mass transportation.
Make it doable. Make it practical ( as for as carrying bulky items) Make it dependable. ( people are not going to wait for the next bus more than about 10 minutes)
And I think most important, we need to convince ourselves its the right thing to do.
True change comes from within and from the people not the politicians.
I think we are getting there. We see hints of it every day. Recycling is one form of stewardship that has grown for example.
On the other hand we are so lazy, we wont put our shopping carts back in the cue when we are done and worse they are scattered throughout adjoining neighborhoods.
Sorry about the rambling and the mini rant. The take home message is make it more useful, more convenient and maybe the numbers would go up? Just my thoughts.
Bill C
Wouldn't it be wonderful that some form of " shopping cart" designed to fit in a storage space under the cabin which could quickly be slid into place. These could be available for rent or what ever for shoppers to roll around with them while they are shopping and then slipped into its storage place on the bus.
What I am getting at is at the moment, the busses do well to get the people around but when they want to do serious shopping they will take a car or some other means if they have it just because they can't transport bulky items easily.
I think we do well as a people as long as we are not too inconvenienced and its easy.
I also believe there is a practical limit to how far people are willing to use a bicycle to commute. I think that limit is about 30 mins of time and about 5 or so miles or both. At that point then there must be some sort of mass transit system to take them closer to their destination or frankly the bike stays at home. How much time are we willing to spend going to and from work? Certainly from city to city the masses are not going to chose cycling.
Why do we use cars? Its not all because we are lazy or too old or too young. We need to ask ourselves that when we are thinking of mass transportation.
Make it doable. Make it practical ( as for as carrying bulky items) Make it dependable. ( people are not going to wait for the next bus more than about 10 minutes)
And I think most important, we need to convince ourselves its the right thing to do.
True change comes from within and from the people not the politicians.
I think we are getting there. We see hints of it every day. Recycling is one form of stewardship that has grown for example.
On the other hand we are so lazy, we wont put our shopping carts back in the cue when we are done and worse they are scattered throughout adjoining neighborhoods.
Sorry about the rambling and the mini rant. The take home message is make it more useful, more convenient and maybe the numbers would go up? Just my thoughts.
Bill C

I never really thought about it, but you have pointed out a big problem with public transit. They only scratched the surface when they finally put bike racks on the buses. We need a quick way to store our groceries, baby strollers, and other bulky items while riding on the bus. It sems like this should be done even if it means lowering passenger capacity somewhat. Actually this seems like a safety issue as well as comfort, convnience, and encouraging ridership.
Just yesterday, our car is in the garage. My daughter-in-law was planning how to shop without it. She said she couldn't take the bus because she was buying too many groceries to bring home on the bus. Her solution was to take the bus to the store and an expensive cab ride home. It would be great if she could just wheel a shopping cart into a special compartment on the bus! She would have taken the bus both ways if this were possible.
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