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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 06-18-17, 05:52 AM   #126
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We're off topic big time, sure no one cares at this point, though.

What mass suicide was it where they drank spiked punch or something?? I'm too lazy to google it....
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Old 06-18-17, 07:17 AM   #127
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Little late to the party here and must say that this is a bizarre thread. How can you compare owning a car to a cult?
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Looks like some are responding w/good intentions and others to be smart asses. I don't understand why people respond when they have ZERO interest in the thread topic.
You must have figured out the good intentions of this "bizarre thread" topic, eh? Perhaps you can explain the OP's "good intention" of using an alternate reality scenario of "cult" and "escape"
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Old 06-18-17, 07:48 AM   #128
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You must have figured out the good intentions of this "bizarre thread" topic, eh? Perhaps you can explain the OP's "good intention" of using an alternate reality scenario of "cult" and "escape"
The thesis of the thread was clearly spelled out in the OP - it was asked if people feel any peer pressure not to give up driving, almost as if driving were like a cult you're not supposed to leave. However, some people in the thread have demonstrated that they don't understand the difference between the literal and figurative use of the term 'cult' (eg. Tesla being compared to a cult, etc.) so I'm not surprised it went over their heads.

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Old 06-18-17, 08:49 AM   #129
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The thesis of the thread was clearly spelled out in the OP - it was asked if people feel any peer pressure not to give up driving, almost as if driving were like a cult you're not supposed to leave. However, some people in the thread have demonstrated that they don't understand the difference between the literal and figurative use of the term 'cult' (eg. Tesla being compared to a cult, etc.) so I'm not surprised it went over their heads.

Most of us understand why Tesla aficionados might figuratively be likened to a cult. A small group of like minding individuals intensely devoted to one idea that is outside the cultural mainstream.

Which is exactly why the OP's premise fails. There is social pressure exerted within the mainstream culture. And social pressure also exists in cult settings. But to say that similarity makes them analogous is simplistic and just plain wrong. If we refine words to mean whatever we want them to for political purposes, it renders the language meaningless.
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Old 06-18-17, 09:21 AM   #130
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...


in the thread topic.
Which is... what constitutes cultish behavior? Believing in UFOs and Global Warming? Living in the suburbs and driving an automobile to work? Being anti-car?
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Old 06-18-17, 09:48 AM   #131
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Most of us understand why Tesla aficionados might figuratively be likened to a cult. A small group of like minding individuals intensely devoted to one idea that is outside the cultural mainstream.

Which is exactly why the OP's premise fails. There is social pressure exerted within the mainstream culture. And social pressure also exists in cult settings. But to say that similarity makes them analogous is simplistic and just plain wrong. If we refine words to mean whatever we want them to for political purposes, it renders the language meaningless.
What about the premise? Do you think there is social pressure to be part of driving culture and that it could be psychologically liberating to give it up?
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Old 06-18-17, 10:02 AM   #132
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What about the premise? Do you think there is social pressure to be part of driving culture and that it could be psychologically liberating to give it up?

The "psychological liberation" which comes from giving up a car is just a "temporary good feeling" which is the result of a "lifestyle change" and has nothing to do with the car itself...Those "psychological liberations" are just temporary and came and go. Many different things in life such a change in employment, moving to a different location or taking a vacation away from the daily grind and going camping and fishing can provide a "psychological liberation"...Some people even join cults to get their "psychological liberation"
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Old 06-18-17, 10:10 AM   #133
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What about the premise? Do you think there is social pressure to be part of driving culture and that it could be psychologically liberating to give it up?
Yes, yes, paying the annual insurance and registration fees become all-consuming, unbreakable habits that many responsible drivers find themselves unable to break.
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Old 06-18-17, 04:07 PM   #134
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The thesis of the thread was clearly spelled out in the OP - it was asked if people feel any peer pressure not to give up driving, almost as if driving were like a cult you're not supposed to leave. However, some people in the thread have demonstrated that they don't understand the difference between the literal and figurative use of the term 'cult' (eg. Tesla being compared to a cult, etc.) so I'm not surprised it went over their heads.

What OP and 2-3 of his followers fail to understand is that majority of people don't drive because of peer pressure but they drive simply because we live in the 21 century and cars are a normal legitimate form of transportation, just like horses and wagons were hundreds of years ago. There is nothing cultish about a car, it's just a tool.
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Old 06-18-17, 05:05 PM   #135
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...

we live in the 21 century and cars are a normal legitimate form of transportation, just like horses and wagons were hundreds of years ago. There is nothing cultish about a car, it's just a tool.

True, true and, if anyone clung to their horses, preferring instead to dodge rush hour traffic or simply forsake employment opportunities because going over 10-15 mph to get there was seen as an outlandish extravagance invented by the devil, that would be a cult.
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Old 06-19-17, 02:03 AM   #136
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What OP and 2-3 of his followers fail to understand is that majority of people don't drive because of peer pressure but they drive simply because we live in the 21 century and cars are a normal legitimate form of transportation, just like horses and wagons were hundreds of years ago. There is nothing cultish about a car, it's just a tool.
+ 1. I agree but always think it is nice to debate.
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Old 06-19-17, 03:51 AM   #137
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LCF people are definately a cult then. Also, everywhere they go they are stinky. So regular people don't want to hang around them and the only people that will hang around are other stinky people. So after a while since they only want to hang around others who stink they brainwash each other into believing their way is the only way.
Years ago I spent some time in Europe and it was somewhat popular to ridicule Americans as being fat and lazy. Was this peer-pressure to 'join the cult' of health and fitness by working harder to stay in shape? Idk, but if it's culturally easy to ridicule LCF people for being stinky but difficult to ridicule people for being fat and/or lazy, it makes you wonder why the double standard? Is it because avoiding physical exertion is part of a cult of industrialism that overuses machines and artificial energy to avoid sweating? I.e. maybe the cult goes beyond driving to include every other aspect of labor-saving devices, as well as air-conditioning. Note that once I say this, it will trigger the haters to post multiple hostile responses hammering into the ground what life would be like without driving and air-conditioning. The only question is whether it is worse than the ridicule of 'fat lazy Americans' that once echoed around Europe.

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There is social pressure exerted within the mainstream culture. And social pressure also exists in cult settings. But to say that similarity makes them analogous is simplistic and just plain wrong. If we refine words to mean whatever we want them to for political purposes, it renders the language meaningless.
The problem is when words get reduced to mere markers of division between majority and minority. If the only difference between cult peer-pressure and mainstream peer-pressure is that it is minoritarian, then the word 'cult' would be a meaningless marker of minority/sub-culture status. I think it is more than that, especially where liberty is accepted and valued and peer-pressure frowned upon.

Being 'mainstream' is supposed to be about social-cultural independence, but the fact is that people are emotional animals and many seek out 'mainstream' status without having the capacity to really operate independently of peer-pressure; so you could say that there is a cult of being mainstream, and various mainstream cults, in addition to there being people who actually dislike cultish peer-pressure-driven existence.

For me, it's the extreme cultural adherence to driving as a norm that deters me from ever wanting to do it, besides environmental and health reasons of course. If it was just one option among many, and there were plenty of people who never even considered driving, it would feel less cultish to partake. Instead, it always feels like people are waiting for me to give in and join the cult. That is a creepy feeling.

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The "psychological liberation" which comes from giving up a car is just a "temporary good feeling" which is the result of a "lifestyle change" and has nothing to do with the car itself...Those "psychological liberations" are just temporary and came and go. Many different things in life such a change in employment, moving to a different location or taking a vacation away from the daily grind and going camping and fishing can provide a "psychological liberation"...Some people even join cults to get their "psychological liberation"
If that was true, then I could get a temporary good feeling of psychological liberation from getting a car, but that would just make me feel like I gave in to social pressure and signed away a couple hundred dollars a month worth of freedom for the duration of payments, and that's not counting all the years of insurance payments and maintenance that would follow. No, I'm afraid it's more than the good feeling that comes with any lifestyle change, or even the good feeling that comes with joining a cult, unless joining a cult feels good because of the feeling of escaping other cult-pressure.

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What OP and 2-3 of his followers fail to understand is that majority of people don't drive because of peer pressure but they drive simply because we live in the 21 century and cars are a normal legitimate form of transportation, just like horses and wagons were hundreds of years ago. There is nothing cultish about a car, it's just a tool.
What if someone told you that recreational drugs are a normal part of having fun in the 21st century and you are a prudish teetotaler for resisting? Wouldn't that feel like a cultish peer-pressuring line to push you into using drugs? Calling things 'normal' and 'legitimate' as a way of herding people into cultural participation is a form of social-pressure to the extent that 'normal' and 'legitimate' reference social popularity.

If something is good, it is good whether it's popular or unpopular, and seeing it that way is the only way to escape the cult of popular culture. Driving could be a good thing under certain circumstances if it wasn't so popular, but because it is so popular and widespread, it becomes a cult to resist instead of an option to choose. For goodness sake, there is even a cult of fearing the shrinking of the automotive sector with the belief that it would cause the entire economy to collapse. If that's not cultish, what would be?
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Old 06-19-17, 06:35 AM   #138
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Yes, I think the word "cult" to describe either living with or without cars, is probably a bit too loaded with preconceptions to facilitate what I think you want to discuss - correct me if I am wrong - that deviating from the majority lifestyle will cause at least some people to see you as a bit of a freak to be mocked, or a lost soul who has to be talked back into sense; and they may not realize that to some extent they are acting the role of enforcers of normality and conformity because of some insecurity of their own. And this would be true whether you're a vegan, atheist, banker turned busker, or in this case, someone moving away from car-dependence.
This is true, but if you look at it from a transportation standpoint, it's like the technology came out about a century ago and the fad turned into a cult, which grew to recreate everything into its own image. If you look at Dutch cities, the effect is similar except cycling is included in the cult so there are red bike lanes and traffic signals everywhere instead of just lanes, signals, signs parking lots, etc. made for driving.

Maybe it's really just impossible to imagine escaping the cult you're in until you perceive something outside of it to escape into. If you can't imagine anything more or less than the culture you use to accomplish life, you've given in to the cult-pressure, and whenever you start questioning whether some other form of life is possible outside the cult, the other cult members view you as crazy and maybe a threat to the cult.

Have you ever seen the original Star Trek episode, 'Return of the Archons,' where everyone on a planet is under the spell of a supercomputer that maintains peace and prosperity by creating a cult of worship? In that case, the cult is definitely majoritarian, almost ubiquitous, but there are a few people who question it and see it for what it is. Driving is also almost ubiquitous, and the automobile is worshiped in some ways, along with the economic privileges it brings with it, but I supposed people don't behave as cultish around it as they did around Landrew in that Star Trek episode, but then the cult of Landrew was maybe overdramatized for the sake of clarity and emphases. Real, everyday majoritarian cults like that of driving might just operate more subtly; otherwise people would see them as cults and question them.
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Old 06-19-17, 08:32 AM   #139
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In Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley dates are given AF instead of AD. AF stands for Anno Ford, or for some Anno Freud. So Huxley imagined a world where the automobile was more than a cult, having become the the dominent religion.
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Old 06-19-17, 08:36 AM   #140
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In Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley dates are given AF instead of AD. AF stands for Anno Ford, or for some Anno Freud. So Huxley imagined a world where the automobile was more than a cult, having become the the dominent religion.
It was mass production that was the cult.
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Old 06-19-17, 08:55 AM   #141
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[QUOTE=cooker;19662607]It was mass production that was the cult.[/.]
You're probably right; it's been almost sixty years since I read it.
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Old 06-19-17, 09:10 AM   #142
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In Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley dates are given AF instead of AD. AF stands for Anno Ford, or for some Anno Freud. So Huxley imagined a world where the automobile was more than a cult, having become the the dominent religion.
Nothing new then about imagining a fictional world of cults, eh? Did Huxley imagine anything related to LCF in his fantasy?
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Old 06-19-17, 09:37 AM   #143
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It was mass production that was the cult.
Dating back to Middle Age Andalusian scholar and politician, Ibn Khaldun?


The Amazing Arab Scholar Who Beat Adam Smith by Half a Millennium - Evonomics
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Old 06-19-17, 11:02 AM   #144
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Where do you people come from? I would like to see someone go car free where I live. We got no uber, no lyft, no buses where I live. Heck, I would have to drive over an hour to even find a taxi. There are two of us, and we each have a car. I can't imagine not being able to go on vacation, not being able to go four wheeling in my Jeep. Living within 40-50 miles from my home is not a lifestyle that I want. Plus I enjoy going offroad with a group of friends on the weekends, I enjoy driving, just like I enjoy riding my bike. BTW, my Jeep gets about 5 mpg offroad. Maybe you'll call my group of friends a cult too, I really don't care about your wacky opinions.
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Old 06-19-17, 11:06 AM   #145
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Where do you people come from? I would like to see someone go car free where I live. We got no uber, no lyft, no buses where I live. Heck, I would have to drive over an hour to even find a taxi. There are two of us, and we each have a car. I can't imagine not being able to go on vacation, not being able to go four wheeling in my Jeep. Living within 40-50 miles from my home is not a lifestyle that I want. Plus I enjoy going offroad with a group of friends on the weekends, I enjoy driving, just like I enjoy riding my bike. BTW, my Jeep gets about 5 mpg offroad. Maybe you'll call my group of friends a cult too, I really don't care about your wacky opinions.
I agree w/you and can't live car free here either. IMO it is an interesting conversation and I like to hear what others thoughts are.
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Old 06-19-17, 11:47 AM   #146
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Where do you people come from? I would like to see someone go car free where I live. We got no uber, no lyft, no buses where I live. Heck, I would have to drive over an hour to even find a taxi. There are two of us, and we each have a car. I can't imagine not being able to go on vacation, not being able to go four wheeling in my Jeep. Living within 40-50 miles from my home is not a lifestyle that I want. Plus I enjoy going offroad with a group of friends on the weekends, I enjoy driving, just like I enjoy riding my bike. BTW, my Jeep gets about 5 mpg offroad. Maybe you'll call my group of friends a cult too, I really don't care about your wacky opinions.
There's no doubt it's easier to live car-free or car-light in a more urban environment. Are you interested in the subject?
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Old 06-19-17, 11:58 AM   #147
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There's no doubt it's easier to live car-free or car-light in a more urban environment. Are you interested in the subject?
Maybe it's my age, maybe it's more where I live. But even if I lived in an urban area I don't think I could live with the limitations of not owning a car. Plus I don't want to be all sweaty and stinky everwhere I go. I used to ride my 34# Bullet to work often, but the added time it took me to clean up after riding there was hardly worth it. My bike is purely for fun now that I'm retired, and my Jeep is fun too, I've owned a Jeep for 15 years.

My problem with this thread is the militant opinions of the LCF crowd, even the title of this thread is from someone trying to stir up trouble, I won't push my lifestyle on you if you don't push yours on mine. Besides, the trails are crowded enough already

And you people who only ride buses or hire uber are not living car free, you're just hiring someone to do your dirty work for you.
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Old 06-19-17, 12:04 PM   #148
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Maybe it's my age, maybe it's more where I live. But even if I lived in an urban area I don't think I could live with the limitations of not owning a car. Plus I don't want to be all sweaty and stinky everwhere I go. I used to ride my 34# Bullet to work often, but the added time it took me to clean up after riding there was hardly worth it. My bike is purely for fun now that I'm retired, and my Jeep is fun too, I've owned a Jeep for 15 years.

My problem with this thread is the militant opinions of the LCF crowd, even the title of this thread is from someone trying to stir up trouble, I won't push my lifestyle on you if you don't push yours on mine. Besides, the trails are crowded enough already

And you people who only ride buses or hire uber are not living car free, you're just hiring someone to do your dirty work for you.
I keep hearing about these militant attitudes, but I'm not sure I actually see them. Mostly I see people claiming there are militant attitudes here.

You're correct that using Uber isn't exactly car-free - this kind of distinction gets debated a lot here, so it's not like you're discovering a flaw in everybody's logic. However using mass transit like buses and trains falls within the definition of car-free as used here. Nobody is talking about being motor transport free. And yes - you are allowed to ride in an ambulance
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Old 06-19-17, 12:14 PM   #149
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There's no doubt it's easier to live car-free or car-light in a more urban environment. Are you interested in the subject?
Certainly you don't hold the opinion that only people who share you or Tandempower's imaginative visions are interested in the subject of living car free; or do you?

BTW this thread reminds me of another fellow with peculiar thoughts who "escaped" (in his own mind) from the cult of modern technology, more or less, to live a simple car free life, in a tiny cabin in a remote area and used a bicycle for transportation.
"Kaczynski's original goal was to move out to a secluded place and become self-sufficient so that he could live autonomously. He began to teach himself survival skills such as tracking, edible plant identification, and how to construct primitive technologies such as bow drills. After watching the wild land around him be destroyed by development and industry, he decided it was impossible to live in nature. He performed isolated acts of sabotage and initially targeted the developments near his cabin. The ultimate catalyst which drove him to begin his campaign of bombings was when he went out for a walk to one of his favorite wild spots, only to find that it had been destroyed and replaced with a road."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
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Old 06-19-17, 12:19 PM   #150
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I keep hearing about these militant attitudes, but I'm not sure I actually see them. Mostly I see people claiming there are militant attitudes here.
I wish I had a dime for every time you posted a variant of "I don't see that" in response to other posters' observations that do not fall in line with your own preferred vision.
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