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Myths and misconceptions about living car free

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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Myths and misconceptions about living car free

Old 07-26-17, 10:37 PM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by McBTC
The fact that a bicyclist must be in good health to ride 50 to 100 miles in a day is irrelevant but perhaps very relevant to the utility of a bike versus a car, depending on our goals and circumstances and what we wish to accomplish like--e.g., earn a living.
That sounds like another implied sweeping generalization - that car-free or -light people aren't earning a living. At least that one's good grist for the mythbusting mill, so thanks for a rare positive contribution to the thread. What do people think? Are car-free or light people likely to not be earning a living?
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Old 07-26-17, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker
That sounds like another implied sweeping generalization - that car-free or -light people aren't earning a living. At least that one's good grist for the mythbusting mill, so thanks for a rare positive contribution to the thread. What do people think? Are car-free or light people likely to not be earning a living?
You've got it bass ackwards. The title of this forum is LCF not LBF so the anti-car animus is given not anti-bike that you seem to be inferring, even though most bikes are purchased by owners of cars who obviously have no animus towards bikes.
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Old 07-27-17, 11:27 AM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Machka
I think you're confused about which thread you're in ...
Yes I was.
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Old 07-27-17, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower
I guarantee some people view your choice as heroic, whether or not they tell you so. Many people don't get it, because they block the logical connection between personal choices and their broader social consequences. As a vegetarian, I am aware that animals would not be slaughtered for meat if no one bought and ate the meat, yet no one is praising me for my diet. If they comment on it, it's usually to do with health and if they comment on the animal kindness aspect, they say something like one person can't change the world, or animals are meant to be used as food, etc.

To us carfree people who DO see the connection between driving cars and the amount of pavement put down, the degree of sprawl in an area, the amount of fuel burnt, the cost that driving and infrastructure add to an economy; you are a hero for putting effort into taking personal responsibility, just like everyone else who does so. You are a hero to your own health and fitness, and a hero to set an example that LCF is nothing to shy away from. People who don't want to follow your example won't usually view you as heroic, but that doesn't mean you aren't.
Thank you for your words of encouragement.
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Old 07-27-17, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tramptrade
Thank you for your words of encouragement.
Really it's just makes you a hero when you aspire to do something heroic. Most people cynically dismiss the possibility of making a difference because they view everything at the level of mundane individual life as insignificant. In reality, behind every large scale societal phenomenon there are enumerable individual choices and while it is easy to rationalize going along with herd, every single individual has the power to change the world for the better if they would all choose heroism over indifference.

Plus, what's more of a test of character and strength: acting heroically when you're assured you will make a difference and that others will recognize and celebrate you for it, or doing so when the odds are against you and so are the people? Some people will say it doesn't make you a hero, it just makes you a naive sucker; but are the people saying that the heroes or the suckers?
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Old 07-27-17, 07:16 PM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by tandempower
Really it's just makes you a hero when you aspire to do something heroic. Most people cynically dismiss the possibility of making a difference because they view everything at the level of mundane individual life as insignificant. In reality, behind every large scale societal phenomenon there are enumerable individual choices and while it is easy to rationalize going along with herd, every single individual has the power to change the world for the better if they would all choose heroism over indifference.

Plus, what's more of a test of character and strength: acting heroically when you're assured you will make a difference and that others will recognize and celebrate you for it, or doing so when the odds are against you and so are the people? Some people will say it doesn't make you a hero, it just makes you a naive sucker; but are the people saying that the heroes or the suckers?
Heroic, How is riding a bicycle heroic, compared to driving a car ... ?

A Na´ve sucker, How is riding a bicycle being a na´ve sucker...?

It's basically that the average people/persons do not care, and don't want to know, and don't want to change, rocking the boat is not one of their strong suits... Keeping up with the Jones's is what it's all about.
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Old 07-27-17, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
Heroic, How is riding a bicycle heroic, compared to driving a car ... ?

A Na´ve sucker, How is riding a bicycle being a na´ve sucker...?

It's basically that the average people/persons do not care, and don't want to know, and don't want to change, rocking the boat is not one of their strong suits... Keeping up with the Jones's is what it's all about.
If you couldn't understand it from the post you're questioning, then I doubt there's any point explaining it further, and I don't feel like derailing the thread because you decided to get cynical and spit on a very positive post.

Average people are not heroic as long as they are indifferent. The moment they look at the effects their choices have on the world and take responsibility for those effects, they become heroes.
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Old 07-27-17, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower
If you couldn't understand it from the post you're questioning, then I doubt there's any point explaining it further, and I don't feel like derailing the thread because you decided to get cynical and spit on a very positive post.

Average people are not heroic as long as they are indifferent. The moment they look at the effects their choices have on the world and take responsibility for those effects, they become heroes.
Ah, NO, They become "informed", then, they make different choices. Not, Heroes... Right here IS, another myth, bicyclist's are NOT heroes, they are just more informed, and make different decisions because of different priorities...
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Old 07-27-17, 07:57 PM
  #284  
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If you were cycling as a member of a bicycle infantry in WWI ... you may be a hero.

If you're commuting to work by bicycle and cycling to the park ... you're not a hero. You've just chosen a method of transportation that happens to be convenient and efficient for you at that moment in time.

It would be like saying that because I wore a rain jacket on a rainy day, I'm a hero. Nope. I just chose a garment of clothing that happened to be convenient and efficient for me at that moment in time.
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Old 07-27-17, 08:32 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by tandempower
...

The moment they look at the effects their choices have on the world and take responsibility for those effects, they become heroes


.
Lance Armstrong is a hero after all-- so good to hear...
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Old 07-28-17, 12:15 AM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by Rowan
Don't forget... some car manufacturers have sold bicycles under their brand. Heaven knows, I am getting ads on my cell phone for some Ford bike thing. Porsche comes to mind, so does BMW. I think GM had one as well.

Plus, quite a few car companies have used bicycles to help promote their products in commercials and other advertising material. Subaru has done for years, and of course, Skoda who are major sponsors of the TdF. A Japanese pick-up brand has been using MTBs in TV commercials a lot lately here in Australia.

The notion of someone in the public eye for a dealership or manufacturer turning up to work with a bike is not so far fetched.
Yes, a majority, possibly, of TV ads for cars have a bike in them somewhere. You probably won't even notice them unless you're looking for them. I have been puzzled by this for many years.

Also, to your point, I do see a couple bikes in the employee parking lot of a GM assembly plant near my house. I really don't think the auto companies discriminate against bikes or bike riders.
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Old 07-28-17, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
Ah, NO, They become "informed", then, they make different choices. Not, Heroes... Right here IS, another myth, bicyclist's are NOT heroes, they are just more informed, and make different decisions because of different priorities...
You certainly prove your own point since you are presumably a bicyclist, yet you are clearly no hero when it comes to seeing the heroism in everyday choices made in the service of ethics beyond the most narrow selfishness.
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Old 07-28-17, 03:52 AM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by tandempower
Really it's just makes you a hero when you aspire to do something heroic.


...Yeah living car-free is truly heroic, I nominate all LCF'ers to receive a medal for bravery and nobel peace prize for all their heroic deeds.
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Old 07-28-17, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower
You certainly prove your own point since you are presumably a bicyclist, yet you are clearly no hero when it comes to seeing the heroism in everyday choices made in the service of ethics beyond the most narrow selfishness.
No ... no ... I think he sees things pretty clearly in this matter.
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Old 07-28-17, 04:07 AM
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Heroes

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Old 07-28-17, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka
If you were cycling as a member of a bicycle infantry in WWI ... you may be a hero.

If you're commuting to work by bicycle and cycling to the park ... you're not a hero. You've just chosen a method of transportation that happens to be convenient and efficient for you at that moment in time.

It would be like saying that because I wore a rain jacket on a rainy day, I'm a hero. Nope. I just chose a garment of clothing that happened to be convenient and efficient for me at that moment in time.
Ah I see. Heroism comes from doing things that are inconvenient
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Old 07-28-17, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Walter S
Ah I see. Heroism comes from doing things that are inconvenient
Interestingly ... quite often it does.

Think about it ... leaping into cold rushing water to save a small child from drowning isn't exactly the most convenient part of a person's day.
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Old 07-28-17, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
...Yeah living car-free is truly heroic, I nominate all LCF'ers to receive a medal for bravery and nobel peace prize for all their heroic deeds.
Sarcasm is not heroic, and your sarcastic negativity here makes you an anti-hero. Maybe you are a tragic hero in that you've lost the goodness of heart and courage to resist the negativity of sarcasm and ridicule.

But, seriously, how many LCF people have given their lives to the cause? How many white bicycles do you see with flowers on them? How much courage does it take to see those white bicycles and go on riding instead of giving into fear and the advice that people give you that driving is safer, and the bigger the vehicle the safer? And what about the fact that if we were awarded medals for LCF, we would get spit on as enemies of the auto economy, or as automotive dropouts, or otherwise denied what we do in terms of effort, and health, and managing our money, and reducing congestion, and promoting safer transportation, etc. etc.?

I would say we all deserve medals, yes, but I wouldn't come forward to receive mine because it would make me a target of ridicule in other ways, the way being a veteran in the Vietnam war era got people spit on and called 'baby killers.' I don't do it for pride or praise anyway. But I do hope to see the world get better by more people cycling and walking and less driving. But that makes them/us all heroes, not just the pioneers, and those who pioneered LCF before younger generations took up the cause.

Last edited by tandempower; 07-28-17 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 07-28-17, 06:16 AM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by tandempower
Sarcasm is not heroic, and your sarcastic negativity here makes you an anti-hero. Maybe you are a tragic hero in that you've lost the goodness of heart and courage to resist the negativity of sarcasm and ridicule.
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Old 07-28-17, 06:17 AM
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Hero:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hero

A person who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hero

A person who is admired for having done something very brave or having achieved something great.



Or ... another term for hoagie. Maybe tp is referring to hoagies.
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Old 07-28-17, 06:53 AM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by Machka
Heroes

NOT MY heroes:


Bottom line:bicycle riders are bicycle riders; Heroes do heroic acts not daydream about them, and neither riding a bicycle nor spitting into the wind makes anyone a hero, except perhaps in his own fantasy world.
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Old 07-28-17, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Bottom line:bicycle riders are bicycle riders; Heroes do heroic acts not daydream about them, and neither riding a bicycle nor spitting into the wind makes anyone a hero, except perhaps in his own fantasy world.
That is the point isn't it? The Hyperbole and back patting some give for average everyday activity to define what everyone does as heroic lessens the true acts like mentioned by Machka on saving a child at the risk of one's own life or rushing into a fire to rescue someone trapped in a building. We can show approval for the poster that gave up their car of truck to save money but that doesn't include a uplifting of the motives to make it seem like those that have been killed on bicycles have somehow died for the cause of LCF. Of most of the white bikes I have seen the ex owner was not LCF. Now why do I keep thinking of Walter Mitty?
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Old 07-30-17, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
That is the point isn't it? The Hyperbole and back patting some give for average everyday activity to define what everyone does as heroic lessens the true acts like mentioned by Machka on saving a child at the risk of one's own life or rushing into a fire to rescue someone trapped in a building. We can show approval for the poster that gave up their car of truck to save money but that doesn't include a uplifting of the motives to make it seem like those that have been killed on bicycles have somehow died for the cause of LCF. Of most of the white bikes I have seen the ex owner was not LCF. Now why do I keep thinking of Walter Mitty?
So if a firefighter risks their life to put out a forest fire, that's more heroic than people giving up driving to prevent sprawl development from expanding into the same forest and causing the land to be cleared by bulldozers instead of fire?

What about if a person helps nurse a sick person back to health? Is that more heroic than keeping yourself healthy in the first place by walking and/or biking daily instead of moving between the car seat, the office chair, and the couch?

Last edited by tandempower; 07-30-17 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 07-30-17, 07:33 AM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by tandempower
So if a firefighter risks their life to put out a forest fire, that's more heroic than people giving up driving to prevent sprawl development from expanding into the same forest and causing the land to be cleared by bulldozers instead of fire?
Yes because a fire is an urgent and possibly life threatening situation that requires immediate action to save lives. Bulldozers don't kill people.

What about if a person helps nurse a sick person back to health? Is that more heroic than keeping yourself healthy in the first place by walking and/or biking daily instead of moving between the car seat, the office chair, and the couch?
In that case the nurse is a hero and is caring for another person. It is not heroic to take care of your own needs.
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Old 07-30-17, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Walter S
Yes because a fire is an urgent and possibly life threatening situation that requires immediate action to save lives. Bulldozers don't kill people.
So if you're absolutely certain that the fire will burn out on its own and no human lives are at risk, there's no heroism in putting out the fire and saving the forest?

In that case the nurse is a hero and is caring for another person. It is not heroic to take care of your own needs.
When my child learn to use the bathroom by himself, he was a hero saving me from the work. Sorry your mind is caught in the abstract aesthetics of Hollywood heroism, but anyone who makes someone else's life better in any way, including their own, is a hero.

Likewise, people who make life worse are villains. We all have moments of heroism and villainy in various ways.
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