Walter S

What did I say that indicates that?

tandempower

Because you only see certain good deeds as heroic and not others. You said that saving a person's life from a fire was heroic, but not saving a forest where no human lives are in danger. Or you said that if someone takes care of their own health to reduce the burden they put on others for health care, they are not as heroic as someone who takes care of someone else's health who failed to stay active and fit.

350htrr

Doing something that saves a forest by standing in front of a bulldozer is Heroic, not eating beef to "save" the forest is not Heroic...

Saving people is usually more heroic than saving yourself...

I-Like-To-Bike

Sorry, "heroism" (or any other word or term) means whatever at least one LCF poster wants it to mean, as long as it fits the scheme of "abstract aesthetics" floating about in his own mind.

tandempower

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you are causing a problem, you have the power to stop. To be honest, I really don't care what's heroic and what isn't. I just want the problems prevented and if it takes calling it heroism when people prevent them, so be it.

Saving two is more heroic than saving just one, even if you yourself are one of the two. Saving yourself at the expense of others is not heroic, but ultimately the most heroic thing to do is to get beyond the egotism of heroism and realize that saving yourself helps you help others.

Walter S

A hero does things that are brave and may put them in significant danger. Doing something that's just "good" is not heroic.

having the characteristics of a hero or heroine; very brave.
"heroic deeds"
synonyms: brave, courageous, valiant, valorous, lionhearted, superhuman, intrepid, bold, fearless, daring, audacious; More

350htrr

Again, it's smart, but not heroic...

Just like riding a bicycle to reduce your footprint... Smart but not heroic.

BUT riding a bicycle a hundred+ miles while injured to get help for a buddy, is heroic.

I-Like-To-Bike

Apropos recent use of Benjamin Franklin quotes (without attribution) as if it somehow is supposed to add credence to nonsensical verbiage:

An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.
- Benjamin Franklin

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
- Benjamin Franklin

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/a..._franklin.html

McBTC

GW standing up to the Eurocommies like the lone Chinaman in Beijing's Tiananmen Square by refusing to sign the Kyoto agreement due to the incomplete state of scientific knowledge, causes and proposed solutions surrounding the non-problem of climate change was Heroic, not flying in a private jet around the world spreading fears about catastrophic global warming.

tandempower

Look at how much ridicule you face just in this LCF forum for daring to speak out against cars. Think how many people are afraid to ride bikes on the road, afraid to get caught in the rain, afraid of what people will think of them, afraid they won't be attractive to potential dates. What is it except courage that is required to overcome all those fears to LCF?

tandempower

Maybe to you and some other people, LCF is an easy sacrifice, but to others it's difficult, and many give up, and only individuals themselves know how much effort they put into giving up driving and staying on the wagon.

To a teetotaler, staying sober might be as easy as avoiding drinks they don't like the taste of anyway; but for some people it's a battle to keep themselves from drinking, and many lose the battle. So you can scoff at struggles that are easy for you for hard for some other people, but to the people and other living things that benefit from the effort and courage they put into those struggles, they are heroes, the same way every parent is a hero to their child.

Walter S

Having the courage to live car free is a rather low bar for hero IMO. But to each his own

350htrr

Well now, I am I00% sure there IS, a whole range of what is heroic to some people, and isn't to some others... I am sure there ARE people out there that think, OMG, there's a kitten floating down a river, and it's drowning... And.. Some Moron jumps IN, to "save" it, but can't swim... BUT, MANAGES to actually reach the kitten and to toss it to shore and save it, but he drowns in the attempt... IMO, that person is NOT a hero, But I would bet my last dime, someone WILL come on here and say something like I am the most insensitive person in the world, and try to ream me a new one because that person WAS a Hero...

Rollfast

If you say so.

350htrr

So... IS that person a Hero,? or was he a Moron.? IYO

Machka 

TP doesn't believe in doing research to find out what things mean. It's easier to make it up as you go along.

Machka 

+1

tandempower

Well, I think it's the most normal thing in the world to have the mind dominated by cynicism and indifference and the fear to be impressed with small feats and miracles. It makes you look gullible to be easily impressed, so we work on lowering our sensitivity to things. Look at the amount of ridicule I am getting for opening the floodgates of what counts as heroism. People are elitists, meaning they feel big and powerful by narrowing the range of what they're willing to accept as being good or sufficiently good. The ridicule bothers me a little, but I understand it's caused by underlying fears of not fitting in that people project onto others who fail to conform.

I don't really care about the praise/pride aspect of heroism. To me the issue is doing good. They say there is a yen yang effect where the more good is done, the more bad will increase to match it. There may be some truth in this, but I can't see it as a bad thing to do good, however small. There will always be more bad that can solved by doing good, so it certainly doesn't do harm to encourage good and discourage bad. If it encourages good to note the most minuscule of miracles and acts of goodwill as heroism, so be it. The only risk in doing so is, as someone mentioned, that it takes the spotlight away from really big acts of heroism, but then if a hero only does good to be in the spotlight of worship, are they really a true hero or just an egotist?

With LCF, however insignificant each individual is compared with the masses of other individuals who constitute the whole population of drivers, saving the world from pavement, sprawl, deforestation, climate change, the threat of car crashes and getting hit by cars, congestion, long commutes, etc. boils down to individuals making the hard choice to go LCF, one by one. The fact that so many people are so adverse to even considering the problems of overreliance on driving suggests that it really is a huge feat to overcome apprehension and go carfree. So those who do it really are heroic, imo, though there will always be legions of car-defenders who exhibit hostility toward those who say so.

wolfchild

Not just a moron but a dumb stupid moron...I've read it on the news several times over the years where somebody drowns trying to save a dog...Some humans are just stupid.

wolfchild

Get ready to receive more criticism and ridicule, because your definition of hero and heroism is an insult to people who have actually done heroic deeds and are real life heroes.

Machka 

Sorry ... living car free saves the world from nothing.

tandempower

Wrong, I said nothing negative about any heroic deed. If a hero has to pick a fight with someone less heroic to defend their heroism, they're not a hero. Real heroes encourage goodness in all forms.

tandempower

You can't say what LCF saves anyone or anything from because you don't know what the effects of their driving would have been if they drove. Some people never run over an animal, let alone a person. They never get a car crash. Even safe drivers create demand for roads and parking lots, though. So the less people drive, the less demand there is for pavement and sprawl. That means more land/soil can be left healthy and treed. I saw a video recently, a TED talk maybe I'm not sure exactly, about how soil fungus can break down and digest motor oil. So healthy soil is cleaning and filtering pollution and toxins before they get washed down into the ground water, rivers, and oceans.

If you have a car, you have to park it wherever you take it, and you have to have roads to drive it on. All that pavement takes land away from healthier functions. You can say that there's plenty of unpaved land, but population grows through time so the more we can reform the way people live, and the sooner, the better.

Walter S

Correct. You just redefined "heroic" deeds to be deeds that are better than nothing. Heroic is supposed to be highly distinguished acts of bravery in the face of personal danger to save one or more other people from doom.

If one man rescues a family from a burning building and another man helps cleanup the property after the building burned, these two people are not both heros.

tandempower

At this point you're posting thoughts about heroism that I've already responded to in earlier posts; so maybe it's time to stop discussing heroism.