cooker

Okay, I am responding to a challenge by Machka to start a non-political thread. Today, I confess, I got my wife to drive me 1 km to the subway as I didn't want to drag a suitcase there, but then I took the subway and a streetcar and walked about the last 100m to the entrance to the downtown airport, and flew to Sault Ste. Marie. As mentioned I have no choice at the Sault end but to take a limo into town (not shared today) but I stay near the job site and can walk to work. I might take a cab if I want to go anywhere else in town. However I could have taken a cab 8 km to the airport in the first place or rented a car up here and I opted not to do those things.

Other than here my last business trip was to Ottawa and again I got to the Toronto Island Airport by public transit. I flew with a couple of colleagues and shared a cab into town, where we didn't need a car and then I took a shorter cab ride to the the train station, and back to Toronto and the subway home.

The last time I went to London ON I completely avoided car use. The conference hotel was 2 blocks from the train station. Most of my trips are 2-4 days so I usually have manageable luggage.

So some of the ways I reduce car use for business travel are by using the downtown airport or the train, and picking a hotel close to where I will work. I can't always avoid a rental car as one site I go to is 200 km from an airport.

How about the rest of you? Are there ways you can reduce car use for business travel?

wipekitty

Most of my trips - with the exception of regional group trips for which it is easier/cheaper to rent a car and drive together - are entirely car free.

I live about 7 miles from a regional airport. Cab service is never on time in my town, and we don't have Uber or anything like that, so I started riding my bike to the airport a few years ago. My airport fortunately has a bike rack, so I ride an old bike, carry a five pound U-lock, and leave it there. If there's a chance that there will be bicycles at my destination, I bring my helmet on the plane. If it's winter, I hit the bathroom before going through security and pack up my winter gear.

Once I get to my destination, which is usually a larger city, I map out public transit and walking distances between places. For distances less than two miles, I will generally walk - though I have been known to walk further, and I have also been known to use bike share in cities where it is available. Google Maps and GPS on my phone have been very helpful in successfully navigating "interesting" areas of cities in the later hours of the day. Sometimes colleagues will want to take cabs; if I'm alone, I almost never take one.

One thing that helps immensely is efficient packing. My current "luggage" is a Chrome Metropolis bag, an upgrade (and slight size increase) from my previous messenger bag. On my most work recent trips - a 5 day trip to Seattle and a 12 day sludge to Europe - it was more than sufficient to hold my laptop, presentation and research materials, chargers, clothing, and toiletries. It has also been quite comfortable for getting to the airport and walking at my destination.

cooker

Great - you are doing better than I am. When I did a combined holiday/work trip to London UK (1 day of conference, 5 days of tourism) 4 or 5 years ago, I was car-free at that end, and didn't even ride in a cab, but my wife and I got driven to and from the airport at the home end. My wife, who drives everywhere in Toronto, averaged 11km/day of walking in London, partly because she was a bit phobic of the massive escalators in some of the tube stations.

Seattle Forrest

I got sent to Chicago on business. It was a ride from a friend to the airport, then a plane, and the company put me up in a hotel that was walking distance to everything.

Maelochs

My question is, is "car-free" a goal in itself? I am sure I use less fossil fuel driving to most destinations than I would if I took a cab to the airport, cab to the hotel, cab to the location and back each night, and then cab back to the airport and then home. Not sure---I have never figured jet fuel per passenger mile.

The other impact is upon my personal economy. I don't have the unlimited expense account some seem to, so often the hotel within walking distance is five or seven times as expensive. I could stay there and burn less fossil fuel, but might end up losing money on the trip.

There are few situations where I would love to bring my bike---if there were safe places to leave it, if it were possible to transport all my gear in absolutely and unquestionably waterproof conditions, and if I didn't have to work pretty much 12 hours each day to get the most out of the trip.

I look at business travel as unfortunate anomalies in my schedule, and try to ride as much as possible the rest of the time.

In any case, I am not a Car-Free Crusader. I don't think it really makes a difference to anyone else if I live car-free or not. Most people simply are not going to, no matter what I do, so I am useless as an example. The amount of energy I as one individual use and pollution I create no matter how I get around is so close to the same, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter. And since my individual actions aren't spurring others to make the change ... pretty much it is insignificant either way.

I choose to live car-light for purely personal reasons, much too complicated to fit into neat categories. Anyone how really wants to get a lot of other people living car-light or car free needs to figure out what to offer to each individual, to make the change appealing to that individual. And right now ... I don't see where what people care about in the short term and what car-light offers short term are in any way overlapping.

When I plan a business trip, I plan to make the most profit---cash earned versus cash spent--and to have the best working conditions (which means getting enough sleep and decent food) so that I do a good enough job that the whole trip isn't a giant waste.

Environmental impact is pretty far down the list, and philosophy even further down.

For me, success would be "I did really good work---in fact, in some ways better work than on any previous trip. I made better use of opportunities and resources, wasted less and produced more of higher quality, so the enormous time, cost, and energy expended got the maximum return."

Whether or not I took a cab or rode a bus or drove my own car .... I will weigh all that after I make sure I have achieved the rest.

cooker

In life that's something that each person can decide for themselves, but in this thread, yes, the purpose is to discuss how people make their business travel car-free or car-light without necessarily getting into why.

I suspect you are wrong, but like you, I would need to see the data. It also varies by the type of plane and the distance travelled.

Fair point. In my case, less car=less cost but it isn't always true. Are there ways you could be car lighter without disadvantaging yourself?

That's the "offset" model which has pros and cons.

That's all fine, but not really on topic in that Machka challenged us all to do some non-political threads, so I will debate or agree with you in another thread.

Maelochs

Yeah, sorry, I got out of control there. My apologies to Machka.

As for other ways to be car-lighter ... on my business trips ... Well, at one event last year I slept in an empty storage room in the event facility and washed in the bathrooms, so I didn't need a hotel or a car. That generally won't work ... and if the staff hadn't been generous, they could have evicted me in the middle of the night and I would have been Really screwed.

As far as the rest ... I bring all my own food and usually all my own water (all it takes is one time staying in a place where the tap water is barely potable) so I don't ever go sight-seeing or even go to restaurants .... strictly work to lodging to work to home.

On a couple occasions I have been able to carpool, but as a rule no one at the event is staying in the same cheap hotel as I.

cooker

How did you get there that time?

cooker

Do you carry any bike tools and do they pose any problems flying? For my older bikes I might need a crescent wrench and in one case pliers as a sort of "third hand" tool if I need to adjust the cantilever brake cable. For people who fly with a bike you might need pedal wrenches and if you're touring I guess you need a larger repair kit.

prathmann

I bought my Bike Friday folder because I was going on quite a few business trips at the time. It was both my commute vehicle from home and on quite a few trips when combined with mass transit. Frequently this consisted of riding to the nearest BART (local rail/subway) station, then pack bike & trailer in its suitcase while on BART; check suitcase on plane and have other luggage in carry-on bag; reassemble bike & trailer/suitcase and put carry-on bag inside for ride to the hotel at the destination. If there was a convenient shuttle bus to the hotel I'd take that and only later reassemble the bike for riding around before and after meetings. Only tool required was a multi-tool set of allen wrenches.

Maelochs

Drove directly to the event site and parked .... and used my car only for storage.

Doohickie

The two cities I travel most to are Washington, DC, and Orlando, FL. When I go to DC, my business is usually in the Crystal City area of Arlington, which is adjacent to Reagan National Airport. I fly in there and walk out of the airport (using the bike trails) and into Crystal City. Once there, my hotel, restaurants, and the offices where the meetings are held are all in easy walking distance.

For Orlando, I do rent a car. I drive into the office, but after work I park at the hotel and walk to dinner. I try to eat somewhere a couple miles from the hotel so I can get 4-5 miles of walking in. (I *need* the exercise when I'm traveling.)

wipekitty

I once discovered - completely on accident - that crescent wrenches and similar tools are permitted in carry-on in the US, so long as they are under a certain length. I've never had a problem - I put them in the bin along with my laptop, gels/liquids, etc., they measure them, and I'm good to go.

I haven't tried allen wrenches or pliers, nor have I traveled internationally with tools. Here in the States, the TSA website is actually pretty helpful.

I think all these items should be okay in checked luggage

B. Carfree

Most of my business travel is from Eugene, OR to either the Sacramento, CA area or the Bay Area. It's all connected by train, so I just walk to the train station, get on the train and I'm done. Sometimes I bring a bike, which means taking a few minutes to box it up. I live less than two miles from the train station, so it's not unusual for me to drop the bike off early in the day and walk over in the evening to catch the 5:00 PM train.

At the south end, there's abundant public transit or, if I brought it, I can just hop on my bike and ride. The only thing I dislike more than driving is flying, so I'm fortunate to have a convenient train line through my city. There's only one southbound train per day and it takes thirteen to sixteen hours to get where I'm going, but in a sleeper car the time just flies by. If I ever have to go further east than Denver, I will probably fly, but that hasn't been necessary in over two decades.

cooker

Wow, you are pretty committed to the train. Is it usually on time and by sleeper car do you mean a private room?

Maelochs

I can well understand the commitment to the train ... too many airports are only accessible by rent-a-car, or buses which don't go anywhere near where one needs to go--and often run sparsely and stop service early. The only car ride you need is bike and luggage to the station .... and by dropping off and walking, you don't even have to pay parking.

cooker

As mentioned I always use it for travel between Toronto, Ottawa, London ON and Montreal, but these are all 2-5 hour rides that hardly take longer than flying and give you much more usable time. I wish I could take the train to my farther sites (it was available up to the 1950s and 1960s) but it is not currently possible.

Rollfast

Stop making payments, that works pretty well.

cooker

Okay, I am trying to put it into practise for today. I needed to walk 600 m to the bus stop but since my wife was driving somewhere anyway, she dropped me. Not a big deal I guess. I took a bus 30 min to the airport express train station, waited 8 minutes, took an 11 minute ride to the airport and a 5 min ride to the other terminal. Total about an hour and $8.20. A cab would have been 25 minute and $55.

At the other end I intend to take the Winnipeg bus, so I'll report on that later.

mconlonx

I used to go to San Francisco CA, flying out of Boston MA, on a semi-regular basis. Most of the trip was car-free due to sheer convenience. Here's three scenarios:

- Got a car ride to the bus station with luggage. Bus direct to airport terminal. Plane to other coast. Taxi into town. Bike rental while in town. BART back to airport, flight to east coast, bus north, picked up by car.

- Parked living space (van) at bus terminal. Bus to airport. Plane west. BART to downtown. Folded bike (Birdy) to get around. BART to airport, plane east, bus north, van to usual parking/living spot.

- Parked car at bus station, bus south, plane west, BART into town, no bike -- walked everywhere -- had cause to take one bus trip, and share a CarShare ride, BART to airport, plane east, bus north, picked up car to drive home.

I'd have had a shot at doing a completely car-free business trip if I had something like a Bike Friday setup with the case/trailer.

The first ride to bus station was part of being car-lite. The second, I was obviously not car free, but rather home-free and living in the van at the time, which might have been a smaller eco-footrprint than truly car free but living in a traditional apt or house. The third time, I had a car, but again, was living small, in a shack in the woods. For the first or last trip, I could certainly have substituted a taxi or carshare service for the ride to the bus station.

The company I work for has a casual and liberal dress code (i.e. none to speak of), so I didn't have to worry about dressy clothes like a suit or jacket/slacks, dress shoes, and all that.

cooker

I usually wear casual office clothes but this event has a dress up dinner tomorrow. So I brought a light tweedy blazer and wore it on the plane so I didn't have to roll it up in my carry-on. I rolled up some dress pants and hopefully the wrinkles will come out by hanging next to the shower.

Anyway, I am on the Winnipeg #15 bus. Probably built by McBones.

cooker

Made it to my Winnipeg event by getting a ride to the busstop (600m - could have walked, but the car was going that way anyway), bus to the airport train station, train to the airport, mini-train to the other terminal, flight, and 2 city buses to the hotel. The first Winnipeg bus was a bit unpleasant. It soon got super crowded with school children, which made it very uncomfortable even though I had a seat, and an older woman with bad hygeine sat beside me for a while. The second bus was fine. The whole trip took about an hour longer all told than if I had used cabs, and saved about $100.

Tonight we had a reception at a local participant's suburban home and we went in a 7 person limo and a 17 person stretched limo. Even that could have been done by bus in a pinch - she lives a 1 km stroll from a bus line straight to the hotel, but the limos were about as car-light as a bus

cooker

Here's the final report on my car-light trip.

Home to bus - 600 m - got a ride with my wife who was driving that way but I could easily have walked as I only had carry-on.

Bus - 8 km, 30 min to train station, $2.90

Airport train - 11 min $5.30

Winnipeg Airport to hotel - 8 km, 2 buses, one hour. $2.65 - it was quite crowded and uncomfortable for a small portion

Hotel to "suburban" reception - 7 km, stretched limo both ways.

Hotel to morning event - 3k - caught a ride with a participant who rented a car - I paid for parking.

Morning event back to hotel - 3 km bus $2.65

Walk on riverside path - free

Evening event at hotel - no transportation

I had a fair amount of time to kill on Sunday so I walked to a public library and worked and chilled for an hour there, then walked around downtown Winnipeg on enclosed above-ground walkways, which was good as it was stormy, then caught a bus to the airport - one bus, 25 min, $2.65.

I landed after 11 pm and was tempted to take a cab, but I decided to stick to the plan. The Airport train was just about to leave and the clerk waved me on board. I asked "can I buy a ticket on board?" and she said yes so I scrambled on for the 11 minute ride. It turns out it costs $2 extra to buy it on board but it saved a 15 min wait for the next train. So $7.30.

I saw a bus approaching as I left the train station and as I ran to the bus stop I flagged him down and he stopped. 15 minutes and $2.90. It was much faster than the earlier trip the other way, as it was so late.

If I was female I might have skipped that last bus ride as the stop is in the middle of nowhere and it was midnight. I would have taken a cab from the airport, or called one from the train to meet me at the station. This is not the main train terminal, it is a stop on the way in a dubious location. Also, if I had had more luggage I would have take a cab from my house to the train station, and cabs in Winnipeg. This hotel has no airport shuttle.

So on the trip to Winnipeg I saved $100 on ground transportation but it took an hour longer. On the way back, I had time to kill in Winnipeg, so the bus to the airport didn't really cost me time, and once I landed the train and bus ride were only marginally slower than a cab,since I didn't have to wait for either and there was hardly any traffic, so it cost me maybe 15 minutes and again I saved $100.

Roody

cooker, thanks for sharing your experiences with carfree business travel. I hope your employer appreciates all the money you saved on transportation expenses. It would be a good idea for businesses to offer traveling employees a bonus if they avoid car rentals on business trips--maybe share half the money that is saved with the employee. A bonus incentive would make carfree business travel more popular, and a little cash would make the inconvenience of public transit--like sitting next to a smelly lady on the bus--a little less annoying.

For me, public transit is much more interesting on a business trip than spending time driving a rental car. You see the sights more, and it gives you an opportunity to mingle with the locals. Airport to rental lot to freeway to hotel is very boring--every city is exactly the same. Life can be a bit of an adventure if you're going carfree. I imagine that's a negative for some people, but it's a positive for me.

BTW, for those who are interested in using bikes in business travel, David Byrne wrote a book called Bicycle Diaries about his many years of carfree experiences while touring as a musician all over the world.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...icycle-diaries

cooker

I won't do so well on my next trip. I fly to Thunder Bay and visit communities 200 and 300 km from there, with no feasible mass transportation.