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Spring is Coming: rain planning thread

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Spring is Coming: rain planning thread

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Old 02-12-18, 04:15 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I would like things that last longer, but I just don't trust the more expensive items because I don't believe that people are really keeping them long enough and using them ruggedly enough to really test them. Also, I tend to trust the testimonials of expensive merchandise less because I figure there's that much more money in lying about how good the product is and suppressing criticism of it.
Some "people" who are experienced cyclists have kept hardware & kit in service for long enough to "really test them".
Case in point being the Town Bike in post #29 in this thread and it's British seat-bag that have been in continuous service for >40 years. Although neither is in current production I highly recommend them along with a British cycling cape which still is. Well proven high quality kit worth every $ spent amortized over decades of use.

Oddly enough instead of relying on whatever "testimonials of expensive merchandise" you find suspect there is an entire BF sub-forum with unbiased real world user discussions of every possible piece of potentially useful cycling stuff, some positive some not at all. It's the Commuter sub-forum. If I was looking to replace any/all of my town bike equipment I'd read and participate in the relevant threads there with high certainty of reliable information from the Commuting community.

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Old 02-12-18, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I have been using the same Cannondale panniers since 1989. I have a couple other sets, and I have had to pretty much completely rebuild the Cannondales ... but I love them. Even when they really showed their age .... after 15 years of daily use ... they still worked fine. When the zippers busted I attached velcro tabs and also bungeed them shut. They never let me down. I rebuilt them because I wanted to.
What are they made of, and have they never leaked? Also, they are panniers so they don't get the same wear as something like a rain suit, poncho, or tarp.

For a tree-lover, I am surprised you are so cavalier with your treatment of petroleum products.
You should avoid saying provocative nonsense. There is no connection between trees and petroleum products. It might be good to mine/pump less petroleum, but that is a separate issue from deforestation and the lack of shade in places where people are walking and biking.

Plastic bags are a potential part of the picture, but they are not at all durable ... unless protected. I can use the panniers to hold the plastic bags and the bags last a long, long time.
Isn't the waterproof fabric/coating on your panniers made of petroleum in some way? If not, what? Bees wax?

My latest solution is to buy lightweight dry-bags---more reliable waterproofing, much more durable, and inside the panniers they should last past the end of my life. I am not a fan of disposable ... but it is built into modern life, and if you give trash bags one more use than they would have gotten, that is one step forward.
Yes, I use anything as long as possible before throwing it away. Recycling wastes energy when re-use could extend the functionality of a product without any industrial processing.

Believe me I would love it if there was an inexpensive way to use carbon fiber or some other organic product that brought petroleum that much closer to redundancy as a mineral. Still, I think too many assumptions fly around in discussion like these and it might be, for example, that using a certain amount of petroleum is more sustainable than trying to expand agriculture to make more products out of natural fibers.

Ultimately, you have to look at the specific consequences of things. E.g. driving creates demand for pavement and parking, which necessarily displaces trees unless infrastructure is all built in a way that shades the pavement by allowing tree roots to grow up under pavement without being crushed/hindered. This is possible, and I've seen special under-pavement soil-protecting structures, but they are expensive and the person I spoke with at the municipal level about the possibility of installing such root-protecting structures under roads basically said the cost would be too high. So you have to look at the big picture of how likely reforestation is with everyone driving everywhere, and then how likely it is if driving would become a much smaller share of multi-modalism.

With plastic bags, though, what really improves if everyone stops using them? Does petroleum mining stop? No, so reducing driving is a more concrete environmental goal than stopping the use of plastic bags.
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Old 02-12-18, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
I do notice that a lot of products like tote bags and so on have some kind of interior coating that flakes off after a couple of years and it is annoying, because it happens long before the product wears out in other ways.
Perfect example, thanks.
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Old 02-12-18, 04:40 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Well proven high quality kit worth every $ spent amortized over decades of use.
Sounds great, but what if you accidentally tear it in the course of the decades? Suddenly the price of 20 years worth of use just doubled.

Oddly enough instead of relying on whatever "testimonials of expensive merchandise" you find suspect there is an entire BF sub-forum with unbiased real world user discussions of every possible piece of potentially useful cycling stuff, some positive some not at all. It's the Commuter sub-forum. If I was looking to replace any/all of my town bike equipment I'd read and participate in the relevant threads there with high certainty of reliable information from the Commuting community.
Ok, thanks, but I'm not sure why you would think no one would post any bad/false information on BF. Someone once told me to use 600 lbs-ft of torque to tighten down a bottom-bearing locknut. I almost started to tighten it down harder before I realized I was being duped into destroying my bike.
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Old 02-12-18, 05:02 PM
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I don't waste money of "waterproof" panniers. the bags keep the gear dry.

Condensation tends to be a problem in waterproof panniers, as does seepage. So, to make them safe to carry stuff, you end up having to wrap stuff. I Never had a problem traveling through monsoon season for 15 years. My panniers got soaked, my gear stayed dry.

And yeah ... it's true ... petroleum is never pumped from places with trees, and roads to the places petroleum is pumped to the places it is refined are never made of asphalt or concrete and never go through forests which need to be cut down in wide swaths. Pipelines never run through the wilderness and never leak.

Petroleum doesn't cause air pollution and if it did, acid rain wouldn't fall on trees, right?

Yeah, what was I thinking. obviously there is no connection between using petroleum products ... and petroleum.

You'd have been better off to have laughed it off and not taken it seriously. It was a throwaway laugh line and you stepped right in it. Sad, almost.

See when you make statements like ....

Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
There is no connection between trees and petroleum products.


well ... you have a nice evening. I am sure glad trees don't share the same earth, water, and air the rest of us have to use.

Going to ride .... and please, next time, don't take the bait. It just sin't worth it.
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Old 02-12-18, 05:08 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Sounds great, but what if you accidentally tear it in the course of the decades? Suddenly the price of 20 years worth of use just doubled.


Ok, thanks, but I'm not sure why you would think no one would post any bad/false information on BF. Someone once told me to use 600 lbs-ft of torque to tighten down a bottom-bearing locknut. I almost started to tighten it down harder before I realized I was being duped into destroying my bike.
Oddly enough the reinforcement that keeps the dowel in place on the seat-bag in Post #29 was tearing loose after only 40 years of use. Took it to a local saddle/tack shop and had both sides repaired, good for another few decades of use. Well proven good quality basic designs last a very long time in service, are repairable and not simply disposable. That does matter, not only do you get your money's worth but good equipment simply works better making cycling that much more enjoyable.

I'm not sure why you would think no one would post any bad/false information on BF.
Two suggestions to get straight well informed information on BF:

A) Never believe anything in The 41.
2) Multiple positive recommendations from many experienced forum members is generally credible.

As always, suit yourself.

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Old 02-12-18, 05:24 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Perfect example, thanks.
Apparently there is a fix - tent sealer: The Lighter Side: Re-waterproofing a backpack
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Old 02-12-18, 05:54 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I don't waste money of "waterproof" panniers. the bags keep the gear dry.
How?

Condensation tends to be a problem in waterproof panniers, as does seepage. So, to make them safe to carry stuff, you end up having to wrap stuff. I Never had a problem traveling through monsoon season for 15 years. My panniers got soaked, my gear stayed dry.
Wrapped in what?

And yeah ... it's true ... petroleum is never pumped from places with trees, and roads to the places petroleum is pumped to the places it is refined are never made of asphalt or concrete and never go through forests which need to be cut down in wide swaths. Pipelines never run through the wilderness and never leak.
If no petroleum was pumped/mined for fuel, only to make petroleum-based products, the factories could be built near the wells and that would eliminate the need for pipelines, etc. wouldn't it?

[quote-Petroleum doesn't cause air pollution and if it did, acid rain wouldn't fall on trees, right?[/quote]
That's because it is burnt for energy, not because it is used to make plastics.

Yeah, what was I thinking. obviously there is no connection between using petroleum products ... and petroleum.
Please use affirmative language instead of sarcasm. It's really irritating to read the word, "not," only to have it mean its opposite.

You'd have been better off to have laughed it off and not taken it seriously. It was a throwaway laugh line and you stepped right in it. Sad, almost.

See when you make statements like ....
Why are you combative? What's your problem?


well ... you have a nice evening. I am sure glad trees don't share the same earth, water, and air the rest of us have to use.

Going to ride .... and please, next time, don't take the bait. It just sin't worth it.
I'll try to avoid taking the bait. So would you try to avoid using sarcasm and combative language?
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Old 02-12-18, 05:59 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Apparently there is a fix - tent sealer: The Lighter Side: Re-waterproofing a backpack
The article doesn't say how long it lasts once applied. I found it a little disconcerting when it was suggested to re-apply "for an extra level of protection." I'm not sure what that would mean since waterproof = waterproof (or not). Maybe it means it will take longer to start leaking. I would like to know how long.
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Old 02-12-18, 06:05 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
[quote-Petroleum doesn't cause air pollution and if it did, acid rain wouldn't fall on trees, right?
That's because it is burnt for energy, not because it is used to make plastics. [/QUOTE] Good night. Do you have Any idea about petroleum refining? Obviously not.

Dude, wikipedia and google if you don't know what you are talking about.

By the way ... how are plastic products shipped? Angles on unicorns pulling cloud carriages?

Anyway .... done fighting with you. You win. You are the Big Winner. You get the big trophy. Everybody love YOU!.
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Old 02-12-18, 06:30 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Good night. Do you have Any idea about petroleum refining? Obviously not.
I don't think you're paying attention to the relative quantities of oil needed for plastics vs. oil used for fuel.

By the way ... how are plastic products shipped? Angles on unicorns pulling cloud carriages?
Ideally by rail and/or human powered vehicles, but even if they are shipped by truck, the trucks would require significantly less pavement than do all the vehicles driven for personal transportation.

Anyway .... done fighting with you. You win. You are the Big Winner. You get the big trophy. Everybody love YOU!.
I only win when people like you stop fighting against me and just discuss things non-competitively instead.
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Old 02-12-18, 07:28 PM
  #62  
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There is a half price sale on clothing at an L.B.S..
I am going to see what they have for bigger riders.
Can I pick up something waterproof for you?
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Old 02-12-18, 07:40 PM
  #63  
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I use my waterproof-breathable gear quite a bit ... I'm in it on every ride probably 6 months out of every year.

I got my first waterproof-breathable jacket after the Paris-Brest-Paris in 2003. I had worn an inexpensive jacket on that event and truly regretted that decision! Last year ... after about 13 years of use, I decided that my trusty waterproof-breathable jacket was probably nearing its last legs. It was starting to let water in on the sleeves. Evidently there is something I can do to rectify that situation, but I haven't done it yet. Instead, I got a new waterproof-breathable jacket which I've been wearing for the past year.

I have another lightweight waterproof-breathable jacket which I've been using in more summer-like rain conditions since 2011. It's still holding up well.
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Old 02-12-18, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
It was starting to let water in on the sleeves. Evidently there is something I can do to rectify that situation, but I haven't done it yet.
There is, and it's done in the washing machine.

Nikwax "Cleans effectively, reviving breathability and water repellency."
Works on all of my breathable kit, tents etc to keep them in useful service when the DWR finish gets old.
It's kit maintenance like lubing a chain...only cleaner.

Wash-in cleaner for waterproof clothing and gear - Tech Wash

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Old 02-12-18, 09:14 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
There is, and it's done in the washing machine.

Nikwax "Cleans effectively, reviving breathability and water repellency."
Works on all of my breathable kit, tents etc to keep them in useful service when the DWR finish gets old.
It's kit maintenance like lubing a chain...only cleaner.

Wash-in cleaner for waterproof clothing and gear - Tech Wash

-Bandera
Yes ... and I can't remember if we picked up that or something like it, or just looked at it and decided to get it next time. Either way, I haven't gotten around to using it yet.
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Old 02-13-18, 11:31 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
There is, and it's done in the washing machine.

Nikwax "Cleans effectively, reviving breathability and water repellency."
Works on all of my breathable kit, tents etc to keep them in useful service when the DWR finish gets old.
It's kit maintenance like lubing a chain...only cleaner.

Wash-in cleaner for waterproof clothing and gear - Tech Wash

-Bandera
I just checked out the website and the product sounds very interesting. It's nice that it works without heat or tumble-drying.
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Old 02-13-18, 12:01 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I just checked out the website and the product sounds very interesting. It's nice that it works without heat or tumble-drying.
If one buys quality kit, especially taking advantage of off-season/clearance pricing, of a proven basic design and keep up with maintenance/cleaning/repair as required one can stay as dry/comfortable as possible for many seasons of hard use. Poorly designed, cheaply made and ill-fitting "bargain" kit is no bargain in the long run for a dedicated bike commuter and/or distance cyclist. The same goes for the racks, luggage, lights and flats-kits that are required.

Modern Classics:

https://www.carradice.co.uk/products/rainwear

https://www.carradice.co.uk/

Peter White Cycles Home Page


For further discussion on the subject there is the relevant BF sub-forum Commuting, where such stuff is the norm and an experienced cadre of riders have this kit well figured out for discussion. LCF is not a unique bicycling ecosystem, no need to act as if it is by self-segregation from the wider BF community by those who only dwell in LCF-land.


Rain Cape Musings...

Rain suit for bike commuting recommendations

Mud Flap

Rain Alerts?


-Bandera: Out
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Old 02-14-18, 01:22 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
If one buys quality kit, especially taking advantage of off-season/clearance pricing, of a proven basic design and keep up with maintenance/cleaning/repair as required one can stay as dry/comfortable as possible for many seasons of hard use. Poorly designed, cheaply made and ill-fitting "bargain" kit is no bargain in the long run for a dedicated bike commuter and/or distance cyclist. The same goes for the racks, luggage, lights and flats-kits that are required.

Modern Classics:

https://www.carradice.co.uk/products/rainwear

https://www.carradice.co.uk/

Peter White Cycles Home Page


For further discussion on the subject there is the relevant BF sub-forum Commuting, where such stuff is the norm and an experienced cadre of riders have this kit well figured out for discussion. LCF is not a unique bicycling ecosystem, no need to act as if it is by self-segregation from the wider BF community by those who only dwell in LCF-land.


Rain Cape Musings...

Rain suit for bike commuting recommendations

Mud Flap

Rain Alerts?


-Bandera: Out
+1

Also talk to the Long Distance crowd who are out there in all sorts of conditions.
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Old 02-14-18, 06:14 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
For further discussion on the subject there is the relevant BF sub-forum Commuting, where such stuff is the norm and an experienced cadre of riders have this kit well figured out for discussion. LCF is not a unique bicycling ecosystem, no need to act as if it is by self-segregation from the wider BF community by those who only dwell in LCF-land.

Rain Cape Musings...

Rain suit for bike commuting recommendations

Mud Flap

Rain Alerts?
-Bandera: Out
For any topic, we could always just search for past threads, and this whole forum is vast archive of commentary; but this is also a social media site where part of the appeal is interacting with people, and that includes discussing matters of interest in current threads.

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Old 02-14-18, 07:26 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
For any topic, we could always just search for past threads, and this whole forum is vast archive of commentary; but this is also a social media site where part of the appeal is interacting with people, and that includes discussing matters of interest in current threads.
On the other hand,
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…So with my experiences in cycling, and my frequent posting over the years, if I have replied on a recurrent topic, written to my satisfaction, I’ll just quote it. A further challenge then becomes finding the post…
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...Last year I came upon a post that to me embodied the communication style that I like about BF. In response to a long quote, turbo1889 wrote:
Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
First of all you have no need to apologize for a lengthy post, least of all to me of all people. Part of the reason I like forums as apposed to other forms of written communal internet forms is because I consider it the "long deep conversation format" rather then the quick short snappy sound bite like format like twitter and such.
So when I nest quotes, I feel I’m emulating a conversation…”He said," then “You said," then “I said, and now I’m saying…” I leave my quotes as links to identify the author, and if anyone is interested in reading further, or verifying those quotes, they can easily be followed right from the post.
I think that the use of quote boxes, which I have not seen elsewhere, is a remarkable way to graphically diagram a "conversation," including relevant comments from previous threads.
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
At last I'm enshrined in a Jim from Boston quote chain, feels like the big time! Thank you.
As my signature line notes, "I use nested quotes (to be read in that order) to improvise an imaginary conversation. Anything outside a quote box is my contribution to the current conversation." I think it’s a succinct, hopefully entertaining way to capture the variety of a topic ("matters of interest").
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
...Bikeforums ... the double-edged sword of internet person-powered transport debate.
IMHO, FWIW.


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Old 02-17-18, 01:31 AM
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Y'aal should try to remember that different people have different philosophies about equipment and "kit" (I DK why but I hate that word!). I love reading about preferences and reasons for liking the expensive stuff or the cheap stuff. It would be so much nicer if people would just state their own opinions without attacking other people.
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