Originally Posted by Machka

So have we all answered the question(s) above ... that 'no' buses-on-rails and super-speed-sleds will not become a thing soon.

Originally Posted by Machka

Not in the US.

Europe has fast trains ... the US hasn't even got that far in mass transportation.

Originally Posted by indyfabz

Heh. Yeah. Amtrak is crowing about how soon it will able to reach 180 mph., which is where the French TGV was--in 1986.

Originally Posted by cooker

180 mph would be great for intermediate trips like Chicago to St Louis or Denver to Salt Lake City. The USA is huge compared to France so flying makes more sense coast-to-coast and other longer trips, and TGV level highspeed rail only makes sense in a few select areas. However if they can upgrade existing rail to much higher speeds it's still a big advantage. 180 mph is a lot faster than driving for those in-between trips.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

They still have a big problem. Amtrak has to run on freight rails owned by private companies in over 90 percent of the nation.

"Amtrak operates 44 routes on 21,000 miles of track in 46 states. Amtrak owns the trains, but freight rail companies own about 95 percent of the track. A Pew Research Center analysis found that the system loses money on 41 of its 44 routes, with an average loss-per-passenger of $32.Oct 17, 2016"

I am afraid 180 mph would be very dangerous on a current freight rail line.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1006716001/

Originally Posted by tandempower

Yes, the default is to resist projects. My hope is always that if I say no to everything, the economy will slow down and everyone will have to walk and ride bikes because there won't be enough money for cars anymore.

Originally Posted by tandempower

It all comes down to entropy. There is entropy and there are anti-entropic expressions of energy. Where energy results in anti-entropic effects, there is hope for the future. Where energy is only resulting in entropy, the question is how much destruction/erosion/etc. will result before anti-entropic processes take over and renew things.

Originally Posted by tandempower

Sounds like support for hyperloop as an alternative.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

I don't think it will happen nor do I believe you care.

Originally Posted by tandempower

I don't let it get me down when the world doesn't progress down an ideal path. Still, I know the right direction it should go in and I just hope for the best and accept when reality falls short of ideals.


All expenditures of energy result in entropy unless the energy is absorbed by anti-entropic processes, i.e. organic processes that build up energy potential instead of breaking it down. E.g. organisms and their ecological systems take waste products like potash, CO2, and latent heat and use those to build up complex systems and potentiate energy in various forms.

Doing nothing is exactly what allows plants to grow, absorb CO2, and feed animals that don't get hit by cars or have their food supplies undermined by land-development that is useless to plants and animals.


Yes, but living matter re-organizes the residual energy and waste-products of entropy to move eroded/burnt matter back uphill instead of eroding it all toward/into the ocean.


Rocks are organized matter that has been baked solid by energy that was present during their formation. After they formed, the waste heat dissipated throughout the ground and some of it was absorbed by living matter that used it to build up oils and fats that may eventually help bake more rocks, which helps them resist forces of weathering and erosion.

Humans can also bake lime into cement and make artificial stone/concrete, but doing so requires mining up energy and disturbing the natural processes that gradually result in more bedrock. Some concrete above ground is useful, but unnecessary concrete takes land away from ecological processes that could be restoring potential energy and organic/organized matter for the future.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

They still have a big problem. Amtrak has to run on freight rails owned by private companies in over 90 percent of the nation.

"Amtrak operates 44 routes on 21,000 miles of track in 46 states. Amtrak owns the trains, but freight rail companies own about 95 percent of the track. A Pew Research Center analysis found that the system loses money on 41 of its 44 routes, with an average loss-per-passenger of $32.Oct 17, 2016"

I am afraid 180 mph would be very dangerous on a current freight rail line.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1006716001/

Originally Posted by cooker

Yes I assume the highest speeds will only be reached in select locations and probably for only part of the trip unless dedicated rails are portioned off or built.
Apparently they currently get up to 150 mp for some northeastern seaboard sections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express

Originally Posted by tandempower

I don't let it get me down when the world doesn't progress down an ideal path. Still, I know the right direction it should go in and I just hope for the best and accept when reality falls short of ideals.

All expenditures of energy result in entropy unless the energy is absorbed by anti-entropic processes, i.e. organic processes that build up energy potential instead of breaking it down. E.g. organisms and their ecological systems take waste products like potash, CO2, and latent heat and use those to build up complex systems and potentiate energy in various forms.

Doing nothing is exactly what allows plants to grow, absorb CO2, and feed animals that don't get hit by cars or have their food supplies undermined by land-development that is useless to plants and animals.

See how the Buddha statue is doing nothing and allowing the forest to grow:


Now see how these people are walking through the forest instead of driving over land that has been cleared and paved:


They are causing some entropy, but not as much because they are walking gently and not using motors and machines. In short, they're doing more than nothing, but still causing less harm than they would if they were doing more.

Yes, but living matter re-organizes the residual energy and waste-products of entropy to move eroded/burnt matter back uphill instead of eroding it all toward/into the ocean.

Rocks are organized matter that has been baked solid by energy that was present during their formation. After they formed, the waste heat dissipated throughout the ground and some of it was absorbed by living matter that used it to build up oils and fats that may eventually help bake more rocks, which helps them resist forces of weathering and erosion.

Humans can also bake lime into cement and make artificial stone/concrete, but doing so requires mining up energy and disturbing the natural processes that gradually result in more bedrock. Some concrete above ground is useful, but unnecessary concrete takes land away from ecological processes that could be restoring potential energy and organic/organized matter for the future.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

Buddha isn't contributing anything and if there was a hole there the forest would grow or not grow just the same. Someone needs to do a bit more research into the second law. Entropy: The Ultimate and Most Pervasive Law of Nature


You continue to move your own thread off the rail, if you get the joke.

Originally Posted by tandempower

Here's your formula for responding to my posts: take whatever I say and claim that I don't understand what I am talking about and cite some link to imply that you are right.

It should be obvious that if a person could sit in meditation 24/7 like a statue, they would be allowing everything else to grow without interference. Unfortunately, we have to eat and live while a statue doesn't, so we should think of ways to live more gently, allow life to flourish, and reduce the entropic effects of human activities.

I don't know if you actually think I am somehow misrepresenting entropy or if you just always argue against me because you want to have a screaming industrial bull economy breaking down the planet, but either way you're wrong.

Originally Posted by tandempower

I don't let it get me down when the world doesn't progress down an ideal path. Still, I know the right direction it should go in and I just hope for the best and accept when reality falls short of ideals.

Originally Posted by tandempower

Here's your formula for responding to my posts: take whatever I say and claim that I don't understand what I am talking about and cite some link to imply that you are right.

It should be obvious that if a person could sit in meditation 24/7 like a statue, they would be allowing everything else to grow without interference. Unfortunately, we have to eat and live while a statue doesn't, so we should think of ways to live more gently, allow life to flourish, and reduce the entropic effects of human activities.

I don't know if you actually think I am somehow misrepresenting entropy or if you just always argue against me because you want to have a screaming industrial bull economy breaking down the planet, but either way you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

You continue to move your own thread off the rail, if you get the joke.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike

This thread was was off the rails (i.e. anything related to living car free) from the get-go; no surprise since anything different from the OP would be as likely as a man biting a dog story.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155

did you read either link? If not then you don't know what I think about your post on how rocks are formed or the second law of Thermodynamics.

Originally Posted by Machka

Have you ever thought that maybe the world IS progressing down the ideal path, that the world knows the right direction it should go in and is doing just that ... but that your ideas are not the ideal?

In other words ... maybe it's not the world, maybe it's you.

Originally Posted by tandempower

You are thinking on some irrelevant level here.

Originally Posted by Walter S

Hyperloop is not going to work on top of most existing routes including interstates, highways, or existing rail. The centrifugal forces will be too high. When people fly in passenger jets they are subjected to a maximum of around 0.5 G force. This is actually somewhat uncomfortable. But it's a force people endure typically only during take-off and they're used to it and expect it. You're pushed back in your seat for a couple minutes and if you're smart you won't be trying to take a sip of your coffee etc. at this time. But then once the plane gets a couple thousand feet off the ground and especially when it reaches cruising altitude you're usually back to no (induced) G forces (everybody feels 1 G at rest, the 0.5 I refer to is what's added on top of that).

You might think interstates and railroads are usually pretty straight but you have to put it in context. There are regularly "significant" turns on an interstate where you can feel the sideways forces of the turn. But on a hyperloop those forces would be totally unacceptable. Instead of just feeling it you'll be outright slammed sideways maybe even to the point of significant injury or even worse. If you're going let's say 600 MPH and you want your turn to induce only 0.5 G then the radius of the turn has to be over 15 miles! Picture a Nascar driver going thru turns on a track that's about a mile wide - he's strapped into the seat tight and undergoing a lot of stress and sunk into a angled seat AND going MUCH slower. And 0.5 G is still an induced force that's the maximum airliners subject you to by policy and for in-flight they shoot for more like 0.2 or 0.3.

It's not just turns that induce G forces it's also elevation changes. So building a hyperloop in California or Florida where it's at least pretty flat is kind of tolerable in that respect. But head up the east coast thru the mountains and it's another story. It would be too expensive to build a tunnel that's 1000 feet or more under the ground but that's what you're faced with unless you want the passengers to totally lose their lunch or worse.

You could slow down for turns but you can't do that quickly either for the same reasons. So follow the rail corridor if you want to but you'll end up with something MUCH slower than people expect and also MUCH less comfortable to ride.

Originally Posted by tandempower

Rocks are formed by heating. If you want to discuss the details, we should probably start a thread in P&R because I doubt the mods will be happy if we start debating it in this thread.

The bottom line is this, though: Rocks form and then break down. When humans use energy to break rock down, it accelerates natural entropy. I hope we can at least agree on that.

Originally Posted by Machka

Not P&R ... Foo.

This whole thread could probably go into Foo.

Originally Posted by badger1

Thing is, the op has already run a thread in P&R on the very subject of 'rocks' (where they are located I shall not comment upon).

It went on and on ... as with all subjects on which it opines, it quite clearly had (and hasn't) the faintest idea what it is talking about.

Anyway ... I don't think even Foo is appropriate. Such a lot of nonsense.