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The beginning of end... automotive industry?

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The beginning of end... automotive industry?

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Old 06-11-18, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
No. Old people driving slow.... doesn't bother me a bit. My 90+ mother just bought a new car.

Gerontophobia is the fear of growing old, or a hatred or fear of the elderly.
Really... ??? I have driven behind "older" folks many a times, and guess what... Generally, They suck at driving, their reactions are off, their awareness is off, their ability to react to emergency situations is non-existent... IMO anyone older than, lets say 65 should get a drivers exam every 5 years...

EDIT; and, Oh, by the way when they reach 80, they should need to be passing a medical, and a drivers test every year... JMO.

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Old 06-11-18, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Considering that I am 68, your comment about gerontophobia is stupid; I'm already old. …….. I hope for both your sakes that nothing happens when she is driving.
We are about the same age... I don't consider myself to be old... or slowed. I hope for Mom's sake nothing happens while she's driving. I hope the same for my grandson that is driving now. And honestly... I think Mom's a better driver.
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Old 06-11-18, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Really... ??? a self driving Tesla... No such thing, at the present time... As far as I know... NOT for the general public anyways.....
Your correct. He isn't part of the "general public".
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Old 06-11-18, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
I think that may be true, but it's a long way off. I don't think I'll live to see it.
As long as many of us are alive... there will be people who love much about owning and driving cars. But.... it IS generational... and we won't be around forever.
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Old 06-11-18, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Your correct. He isn't part of the "general public".
Well now, that is good, BUT, if I was him, I would keep my eyes to the road, hands near the wheel, as Guinea pigs have a tendency to die during experiments, err tests...
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Old 06-11-18, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Really... ??? I have driven behind "older" folks many a times, and guess what... Generally, They suck at driving, their reactions are off, their awareness is off, their ability to react to emergency situations is non-existent... IMO anyone older than, lets say 65 should get a drivers exam every 5 years...
EDIT; and, Oh, by the way when they reach 80, they should need to be passing a medical, and a drivers test every year... JMO.
Geezsh…. your post reads like those people that complain about sharing the road...… with cyclists. If roads are to be public... shared with all.. it requires an understanding by all that use the roads. IMHO.
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Old 06-11-18, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Geezsh…. your post reads like those people that complain about sharing the road...… with cyclists. If roads are to be public... shared with all.. it requires an understanding by all that use the roads. IMHO.
No, my post reads like someone who recognises that older people loose reaction time, they have ingrained bad habits, sometime they don't even know where they are, they have vision problems, they are on medications... they are/can be a "hazard" just like a 16 year old with their own set of "problems", that they will outgrow, but tho old folks will just get worse
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Old 06-11-18, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Geezsh…. your post reads like those people that complain about sharing the road...… with cyclists. If roads are to be public... shared with all.. it requires an understanding by all that use the roads. IMHO.
Sorry, I agree with him. It is the exception that a person is capable of driving safely and at appropriate speeds over the age of 70. Not only are the issues mentioned relevant, but also one has a greater chance of cataracts as they age. I actually know people who couldn't see a damn thing who are elderly and they drive at night anyway. Screw those stupid pedestrians, it's more important that those seniors not feel like they are losing their independence. B.S. We decline physically as we age and medical exams to continue wielding a multi-ton weapon should be mandatory. Those exceptions who are aging without issues will pass the exams and be able to continue to drive. Particularly with the increase in dementia/Alzheimers this becomes crucial. It's understandable, but many seniors are in denial about the state of their health which impacts their ability to drive. An impaired cyclist is nowhere near the danger to others that an impaired driver is... I am a ver healthy 68 y/o and I would have no problem getting an exam to renew my license.
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Old 06-11-18, 08:07 PM
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350htrr makes a great point. I am convinced that once the general (voting) public experiences the increased safety of driverless cars.... they will (like some posters here) lose their tolerance for slower, "human errored" vehicles... like bicyclists.
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Old 06-11-18, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
….. It is the exception that a person is capable of driving safely and at appropriate speeds over the age of 70. Not only are the issues mentioned relevant, but also one has a greater chance of cataracts as they age.......
I've never read anything that reported older drivers being a traffic hazard. I think that may be a mis-perception... because older drivers do tent to hurry less and drive slower. You know... just like cyclist ride slower than the cars drive.

Yeah lots of people get cataracts... particularly people who spend time out in the sun... like cyclists. Thank God...cataracts are easily removed. I'll bet you'll be happy when self-driving is the LAW... and ends all the slow obstructions.

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Old 06-11-18, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
350htrr makes a great point. I am convinced that once the general (voting) public experiences the increased safety of driverless cars.... they will (like some posters here) lose their tolerance for slower, "human errored" vehicles... like bicyclists.
NOT TRUE, I would rather be a hit and run victim of an 80 year old cyclist than an 80 year old driving 2 ton vehicle... and... yes, todays self driving vehicles are probably already past the average 80 year old abilities for driving safely...
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Old 06-11-18, 08:22 PM
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Yup....as I said impaired cyclists can do much less damage than impaired drivers of multi-ton weapons. In fact, cyclists are more danger to themselves while impaired drivers are quite dangerous to others. Nothing is going to change the differential between the two types of vehicles in terms of threat to life.
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Old 06-11-18, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
NOT TRUE, I would rather be a hit and run victim of an 80 year old cyclist than an 80 year old driving 2 ton vehicle...


Interesting! Where do you go... to make that choice? Accidents where I live are random …. no one gets to chose their accident.


Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
todays self driving vehicles are probably already past the average 80 year old abilities for driving safely...
They are better than any humans driving abilities.
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Old 06-11-18, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Interesting! Where do you go... to make that choice? Accidents where I live are random …. no one gets to chose their accident.

[color=#333333]



They are better than any humans driving abilities.
If I had a choice for the type of accident I would have I would chose a bicycle driven by an 80 year old hitting me rather than a 2 ton vehicle driven by an 80 year old.

They will be eventually yes, but at present I would keep my hands on the wheel, my eyes on the road and would NOT be a passenger in any self driven vehicle... JMO.

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Old 06-11-18, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
If I had a choice for the type of accident...… .


We all make our choices.... we just don't all think about the choices we make. I myself have accepted the fact that while cycling I could suffer a serious ouchie… or even end this part of my journey. But it is MY CHOICE. And I make it without complaint or regret and with a mature disregard of fear.


Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
They will be eventually yes, but at present I would keep my hands on the wheel, my eyes on the road and would NOT be a passenger in any self driven vehicle... JMO.
The self driving cars are better than commercial aircraft autopilots. And much safer by testing and stats... than people.
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Old 06-11-18, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
NOT TRUE, I would rather be a hit and run victim of an 80 year old cyclist than an 80 year old driving 2 ton vehicle... and... yes, todays self driving vehicles are probably already past the average 80 year old abilities for driving safely...
I think I will trust my 74 year old mother over the other kids on the interstate for some time. I also trust everyone else over A Clockwork Orange.
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Old 06-11-18, 09:15 PM
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Old 06-11-18, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
The self driving cars are better than commercial aircraft autopilots. And much safer by testing and stats... than people.
Are so-called self driving cars also "better" than commercial ocean liners too? Or is it every irrelevant object you can imagine.

Safer by "testing and stats"? What tests? Tests by who and for whom? Who is paying for and controlling the test process and parameters, and release (or non release) of the results of these so-called "tests"? Where have you seen the test process described?

What real world "stats" (not imaginary projections, WAG, wishful thinking and crystal ball conjuring) can you reference that indicate just how safe the so-called self driving cars are now and/or will be in the future , especially when operated outside the friendly confines of carefully selected "test" routes?
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Old 06-12-18, 06:36 AM
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Let's please stay away from the politics, guys, thanx!
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Old 06-12-18, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
…..
Safer by "testing and stats"? What tests? Tests by who and for whom? Who is paying for and controlling the test process and parameters, and release (or non release) of the results of these so-called "tests"?
Admittedly all I've read are the condensed releases designed for easy publication. But testing has been going on for sometime now and is monitored by government regulators as well as the (jaded?) manufacturers. And even I am a little jaded myself... as I am aware that computers have been functioning well for decades. But then again... I am also naďve enough to believe humans walked on the moon. So judge from that.

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Old 06-13-18, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Admittedly all I've read are the condensed releases designed for easy publication. But testing has been going on for sometime now and is monitored by government regulators as well as the (jaded?) manufacturers. And even I am a little jaded myself... as I am aware that computers have been functioning well for decades. But then again... I am also naďve enough to believe humans walked on the moon. So judge from that.
Care to describe the extent of the government "monitoring" of the testing of so-called self driving vehicles? Do you mean the NHTSA investigating some of the hard to hide, well publicized crashes on public highways of Tesla and Uber?


Certainly you couldn't mean the 3 blind monkey approach to "monitoring" of the tests being done by government officials in Arizona.



Your reference to walking on the moon is just as irrelevant to the subject as your previous reference to piloting commercial airliners.

What's next - irrelevant references to smart phones?

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Old 06-13-18, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
…… reference to walking on the moon is just as irrelevant to the subject as your previous reference to piloting commercial airliners.
What's next - irrelevant references to smart phones?
Self-driving cars/trucks ARE cutting edge technology.... and references to other technology items of the same type (which would include smart phones)… ARE relevant. As ALL tech advances are ALWAYS assaulted by naysayers and Luddite's. I believe you when you post that YOU don't see the relevance. But for many the similarities are outstanding.
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Old 06-13-18, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
I'll bet you'll be happy when self-driving is the LAW.
IMO that won't happen. Instead they will refine what "drive" means. So you get a fly by wire steering wheel you can play with. But your car plays granny and corrects for your errors automatically.
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Old 06-13-18, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
IMO that won't happen.
No it won't. But I'm sure they'll be a self-driving exclusive lane within the next decade or so.
Instead they will refine what "drive" means. So you get a fly by wire steering wheel you can play with. But your car plays granny and corrects for your errors automatically.
That's been true for a while now. Lane departure will jerk you back if you don't drive straight.
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Old 06-13-18, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
IMO that won't happen. Instead they will refine what "drive" means. So you get a fly by wire steering wheel you can play with. But your car plays granny and corrects for your errors automatically.
You might be correct. I have no crystal ball. My guess(es) of future events are just that... guesses. I look at what has happened in the past...…. and base future predictions on known historical events. Rarely... do societies lift restrictions and regulations. Little more than 100 years ago... governments didn't have hardly any regulations for highway use. It didn't matter if you walked, rode your safety bicycle, or saddled on a horse, a carriage, or new fangled horseless carriage.... there just wasn't many restrictions. I can't imagine anything other than increasingly more and more..... restrictions. I hope YOU'RE right... and I am wrong.
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