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Transportation Biking for Obesity

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Transportation Biking for Obesity

Old 07-13-18, 04:07 PM
  #26  
linberl
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Originally Posted by bikingbill View Post

Bike commuting helps keep the weight off, but I still need to restrict what I eat.
Or, alternately, you can bike more so you can eat more, lol. In all seriousness, that is what I do. I have my regular rides (typically 20 miles a day) but if I decide to indulge
in something special - I have a serious fondness for french pastry - then I just plan on riding more for a few days. I've found totally depriving myself doesn't work
but allowing a reasonable amount of goodies is okay as long as I amp up the miles to compensate. I'll also eat more lean meat/veggies and cut back on other carbs if I am
indulging in sweet ones.
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Old 07-13-18, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Or, alternately, you can bike more so you can eat more, lol. In all seriousness, that is what I do. I have my regular rides (typically 20 miles a day) but if I decide to indulge
in something special - I have a serious fondness for french pastry - then I just plan on riding more for a few days. I've found totally depriving myself doesn't work
but allowing a reasonable amount of goodies is okay as long as I amp up the miles to compensate. I'll also eat more lean meat/veggies and cut back on other carbs if I am
indulging in sweet ones.
Unfortunately that works better in theory than it does in application. To make mine work, I don't consider the indulgence until AFTER I've done the work.

A simple fast walk rather than ride to the gym gives me that extra 300-400 cals to indulge in an extra food on those rare occasions I feel the craving for something with more calories than nutrients.
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Old 07-13-18, 11:37 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Unfortunately that works better in theory than it does in application. To make mine work, I don't consider the indulgence until AFTER I've done the work.

A simple fast walk rather than ride to the gym gives me that extra 300-400 cals to indulge in an extra food on those rare occasions I feel the craving for something with more calories than nutrients.
Yeah, that can work too. Not for me, though. Putting the additional exercise in before means you know what you intend to eat and how many calories you will consume....my indulgence is almost always unplanned but I am very good about making up for it. No more goodies until I refill the calorie bank.
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Old 07-13-18, 11:41 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Or, alternately, you can bike more so you can eat more, lol. In all seriousness, that is what I do. I have my regular rides (typically 20 miles a day) but if I decide to indulge
in something special - I have a serious fondness for french pastry - then I just plan on riding more for a few days. I've found totally depriving myself doesn't work
but allowing a reasonable amount of goodies is okay as long as I amp up the miles to compensate. I'll also eat more lean meat/veggies and cut back on other carbs if I am
indulging in sweet ones.
Because I lost 150lbs in 1996, my metabolism will always be about 500 calories below what the charts and exercise tracking indicates. Accepting this has enabled me to keep most of that loss off.

Youíll likely lose weight in the short term, but your chance of keeping if off for five years or more is about the same as your chance of surviving metastatic lung cancer: 5 percent. And when you do gain back the weight, everyone will blame you. Including you.
Diets do not work: The thin evidence that losing weight makes you healthier.

I've kept that off for over 20 years. A never ending struggle.

Losing over 1/3 of one's mass does that.

More detail here: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/h...ight-loss.html

My advice? Don't let yourself get morbidly obese.
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Old 07-14-18, 01:51 AM
  #30  
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Not all of us have the time to cycle enough to burn the calories we consume. A simple way to limit obesity is cutting sugar from one's diet. I used to drink a lot of sugary drinks, mainly cola, and finally stopped drinking them. I dropped nearly 2 pounds per month. I am a fairly active person who does a lot of walking and cycling, but still managed to put on a little extra weight, cutting the sugar got rid of that weight.

Living in Japan, I am more active than a person living in most other places. Though I live in the middle of Tokyo where everything is within walking distance, even short walks are healthy. Obesity is not a problem in Japan, and people live longer here than anywhere else. It has little to do with diet or watching one's health. People in Japan eat lots of processed food, mainly because fresh foods and meats are more expensive than other places. Japanese people also smoke and drink more than in other places, and the Japanese eat more salt than any other nationality.

What keeps obesity low and longevity high in Japan is physical activity. People don't drive often, many don't drive at all. When I first came to Japan, I worked at a bank in Otemachi, and I lived in Chiba. Every morning I would leave my third-floor apartment, climb down 3 flights of stairs, walk 3km to the train station, and climb two flights of stairs to get to the train platform. I would get on a standing-room-only train for a twenty-something minute commute to Tokyo Station. From the Keio line platform I had to navigate half a dozen escalators to get to the B1 level, then walk 1km to my building. From the B1 level, I had to climb 3 flights of steps to get to my second-floor office. Going to lunch or on break meant 6 more more flights of stairs, not to mention the walk to wherever it was I decided to eat. Then I would have to repeat the process going home. Your average Japanese worker does a hell of a lot of walking, and climbs many stairs. In Japan, there is nothing like the ADA in America, many shops, stores, and restaurants are accessible by stairs only, and often many stairs.

Now I work from home, and no longer have to commute. But I walk my daughter to school, walk to the local shops and stores, try to ride my bike for an hour or so each day. I have a nice car, but I don't often drive it. Parking is hard to find around the city, and the time it takes to get my car out of the automated garage, drive it where I need to go, find a place to park, and park it, I could have done the commute more quickly by bicycle or train.
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Old 07-14-18, 03:19 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Yeah, that can work too. Not for me, though. Putting the additional exercise in before means you know what you intend to eat and how many calories you will consume....my indulgence is almost always unplanned but I am very good about making up for it. No more goodies until I refill the calorie bank.
Danger Will Robinson...danger!




My point exactly; and how most of us end up on the dietary road to perdition.
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Old 07-14-18, 09:24 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Danger Will Robinson...danger!




My point exactly; and how most of us end up on the dietary road to perdition.
Lolz. I guess I should have said my "choice" of calories is always unplanned. I eat a very healthy diet, lotsa veggies, no red meat, wild caught fish only, fresh fruit. Living in Northern California, I am lucky to have access to incredible food markets. I cut out sodas a long time ago, went to black coffee as well. But I allow myself one goodie each week, whether that's an ice cream or a pastry or whatever. I'm 68....depriving myself completely doesn't make a lot of sense. I want to die with a smile on my face, lol. Heck, when I hit 75 (assuming I do) I am going full-on Julie Child (butter, butter butter). I don't have enough money to live well past 80 anway, so might as well go out happy =). Now my adult son, who wasn't obese (6 feet tall 210 lbs) is now 165 lbs due to his cycling and his much improved diet (cut out greasy, fried, processed foods and drinks ice tea instead of soda now). At 30, it's really important as it will set up his health for the rest of his life.
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Old 07-14-18, 10:06 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
I don't have enough money to live well past 80 anway, so might as well go out happy =).
That is sad to hear. I live very frugally but going on walks and bike rides are free outings that feel like touring when I pretend like I'm visiting someplace I don't live. I mean, really what do you do when you travel except walk around and look at things you could see on the internet in photos and videos? Can't you find enough joy in frugality to choose a long, austere life over a premature, butter-fueled demise?
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Old 07-14-18, 11:20 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
That is sad to hear. I live very frugally but going on walks and bike rides are free outings that feel like touring when I pretend like I'm visiting someplace I don't live. I mean, really what do you do when you travel except walk around and look at things you could see on the internet in photos and videos? Can't you find enough joy in frugality to choose a long, austere life over a premature, butter-fueled demise?
Actually I was joking, I'm quite good financially, my son and I joke about when I need to "go" haha....but I don't want to live an impaired life, I've had a great one and am quite happy to die before I can't do the things I love. It will probably take the Julia Child diet a while to kill me, anyway. Different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks.
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Old 07-14-18, 12:24 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Actually I was joking, I'm quite good financially, my son and I joke about when I need to "go" haha....but I don't want to live an impaired life, I've had a great one and am quite happy to die before I can't do the things I love. It will probably take the Julia Child diet a while to kill me, anyway. Different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks.
Your perspective reminds me of Pete Townshend's famous line from the song, My Generation, when he sings, "hope I die before I get old." I googled to see how old he is now, and I found this excerpt from an interview where he talks about his perspective on aging and death now. He stands by what he sang, but he seems to have gained some perspective to go with it. You could probably add LCF to the list of things to do to maintain youth and happiness while aging.
https://www.quora.com/Now-that-hes-o...fore-I-get-old
Death is not what is important in life, it is life itself. If you’re young and reading this, let me pass on to you the words of my teacher and master since 1967 Avatar Meher Baba, these are words that were beyond my comprehension when I was 24 years old:

"Don’t worry, be happy. Do your best and leave the results to God."

I think I understood the second part, because I thought then I knew what God was, or was not. But the first part? Don’t worry? Be happy? How do you do that? Get drunk? Take drugs? Meditate? Be a hippy? Go live in a cave? Laugh when someone beats you up and steals your bag? How is that possible? If you are 24, you have plenty of time to work it out. Trust me, in the end it becomes possible.
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Old 07-14-18, 03:57 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Lolz. I guess I should have said my "choice" of calories is always unplanned. I eat a very healthy diet, lotsa veggies, no red meat, wild caught fish only, fresh fruit. Living in Northern California, I am lucky to have access to incredible food markets. I cut out sodas a long time ago, went to black coffee as well. But I allow myself one goodie each week, whether that's an ice cream or a pastry or whatever. I'm 68....depriving myself completely doesn't make a lot of sense. I want to die with a smile on my face, lol. Heck, when I hit 75 (assuming I do) I am going full-on Julie Child (butter, butter butter). I don't have enough money to live well past 80 anway, so might as well go out happy =). Now my adult son, who wasn't obese (6 feet tall 210 lbs) is now 165 lbs due to his cycling and his much improved diet (cut out greasy, fried, processed foods and drinks ice tea instead of soda now). At 30, it's really important as it will set up his health for the rest of his life.

At least you have a plan for your future. There are many who don't plan because they don't know how hard it can be as they get older. There are may that don't realize how much medical will cost when their job isn't picking up the tab. Like many here I discovered cycling allows you to consume more if you wish but even a 20 mile ride at 20 mph 3 or 4 days a week will not burn off the average burger and beer. It takes diet and dedication, way more than the magic of commuting five days a week 2 miles at 12 MPH avoiding sweat.


In fact it seems programs like we see advertised on TV for meal replacement work as well if not better than commuting. At least looking at the posted results. And still genetics can jump out and bite you in the bottom. Having a good retirement plan helps there as well. Cutting out Cheese, bread, Beer, many nuts, Pasta, soda, Shellfish, the skin on Chicken, Ham and ice cream makes losing weight pretty easy, and boring. But it works.


To a degree I understand Anthony Bourdain and yes Julia Child's outlook on living a full life by experiencing people, places, good food and adventures. Having spent 8 years working in a SNF unit and some Hospice work I know people don't want to talk about their long days of doing nothing and waiting for the end. They want to talk about what they have done, where they have gone, where they wish they had gone. And yes the people they love. Maybe even the great bike rides they took. But very few have shared with me how much they enjoyed denying themselves. But that is just from my experiences and how they effected me.
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Old 07-14-18, 04:35 PM
  #37  
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"But very few have shared with me how much they enjoyed denying themselves. But that is just from my experiences and how they effected me."

Exactly. I figured out in my thirties that the things I would think about when sitting in my rocker, going off my rocker (haha), as I got older did NOT include how much overtime I made, my workplace evaluations, or how fast I climbed that ladder. I realized I would think about family and friends first, then places I'd been and the associations with those places (food, drink, great times). Strangely enough, that was a gift from having cancer. Very few of us die without any regrets, but I'd like to at least avoid the ones I can address at this point in my life. So - bring on the butter! It took me the first 5 years of my retirement to reach a point where I don't feel guilty spending on myself. A weekly treat isn't going to kill me but it sure can make me smile.
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Old 07-14-18, 05:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post

In fact it seems programs like we see advertised on TV for meal replacement work as well if not better than commuting. At least looking at the posted results.

The weight loss programs and other " healthy lifestyle gimmicks", advertised on TV are nothing but scams...It's all about money, and not about health...They often use actors in these commercials and the positive results which they claim from using their products are not really the result of using their products but from caloric restrictions and those results are often temporary and not long term...The best thing to do is to ignore these scams and just follow a simple balanced diet and exercise routine...The main problem is that most people don't have enough self-discipline to follow and good eating plan and exercise routine.
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Old 07-14-18, 05:35 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
"But very few have shared with me how much they enjoyed denying themselves. But that is just from my experiences and how they effected me."


Exactly. I figured out in my thirties that the things I would think about when sitting in my rocker, going off my rocker (haha), as I got older did NOT include how much overtime I made, my workplace evaluations, or how fast I climbed that ladder. I realized I would think about family and friends first, then places I'd been and the associations with those places (food, drink, great times). Strangely enough, that was a gift from having cancer. Very few of us die without any regrets, but I'd like to at least avoid the ones I can address at this point in my life. So - bring on the butter! It took me the first 5 years of my retirement to reach a point where I don't feel guilty spending on myself. A weekly treat isn't going to kill me but it sure can make me smile.

As the saying goes, I hear you brother. Mine was after I was out one day climbing rollers with the young guys. Pushed to the top of a 2200 foot climb running in about third and smiling that I could still get my HR up to almost 180 without throwing up. At the top of the roller I felt a little funny so I took it easy getting home. Mine was a heart problem and I was told 180 was way too fast for my age. Now it is travel a bit, experience new foods. Spend time with loved ones. Some mountain biking and a little fixed gear now and then. Maybe try an hot air balloon. Got to try a glider/sail plane. Did some off road rock climbing. Got a chance to try an off shore race boat. Now I spend time visiting Native American reservations and learning about their food choices. Yes I like fry-bread. .
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Old 07-14-18, 05:45 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
The weight loss programs and other " healthy lifestyle gimmicks", advertised on TV are nothing but scams...It's all about money, and not about health...They often use actors in these commercials and the positive results which they claim from using their products are not really the result of using their products but from caloric restrictions and those results are often temporary and not long term...The best thing to do is to ignore these scams and just follow a simple balanced diet and exercise routine...The main problem is that most people don't have enough self-discipline to follow and good eating plan and exercise routine.
Maybe true but the social aspect seems to work for more people than not. I have tried one or two of the listed ones by consumer affairs .com and they work at least till you reach goal. do it your self will work if people have the will power. But if they had the will power they wouldn't need to diet. I am only saying the greater measured results are with meal replacement. It could be because people are invested and so they work harder but I have seen quicker results with some of the programs. I cannot contest to long term results however. And I am not advocating for the programs. I am only parroting what my heart doctor and GP said.
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Old 07-14-18, 05:55 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Maybe true but the social aspect seems to work for more people than not. I have tried one or two of the listed ones by consumer affairs .com and they work at least till you reach goal. do it your self will work if people have the will power. But if they had the will power they wouldn't need to diet. I am only saying the greater measured results are with meal replacement. It could be because people are invested and so they work harder but I have seen quicker results with some of the programs. I cannot contest to long term results however. And I am not advocating for the programs. I am only parroting what my heart doctor and GP said.
"Meal replacement " is just a marketing buzz word for a simple caloric restriction...Any person can practice caloric restriction with normal food if they have enough will power...Eating real food is always healthier than meal replacements.
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Old 07-14-18, 07:15 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
"Meal replacement " is just a marketing buzz word for a simple caloric restriction...Any person can practice caloric restriction with normal food if they have enough will power...Eating real food is always healthier than meal replacements.
i wonít fight with you over it. It is just harder to do when you are 50,60,70 than it was when when I was 20 or 30. When I have after race dinner with the young cat 3 or beginning pros I would look like a blimp with the food they pack away. Pasta and cheese and bread are killers for me.

I donít drink but those kids will hit the beer at least twice a week.

Those days are long gone gone for me.
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Old 07-14-18, 07:53 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by bikingbill View Post
My advice? Don't let yourself get morbidly obese.
Good advice ... something I've followed for over 50 years now.
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Old 07-14-18, 09:57 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
"Meal replacement " is just a marketing buzz word for a simple caloric restriction...Any person can practice caloric restriction with normal food if they have enough will power...Eating real food is always healthier than meal replacements.
So true, and typically more tasty, but not nearly as convenient.
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Old 07-15-18, 05:54 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Like many here I discovered cycling allows you to consume more if you wish but even a 20 mile ride at 20 mph 3 or 4 days a week will not burn off the average burger and beer. It takes diet and dedication, way more than the magic of commuting five days a week 2 miles at 12 MPH avoiding sweat.
Measured in isolation, one two-mile 12mph ride per day might not burn as many calories as a 20 mile 20mph ride, but it depends on the overall lifestyle. E.g. if you're getting up, not eating breakfast, maybe having coffee to get pepped up enough to drive your car to work before crashing at your desk until lunch time, and you go through your day lethargic until you finally schlep your body to the gym or for an exercise ride, which you often end up skipping because you're tired out from your predominantly sedentary lifestyle, then you're basically just trying to use exercise to counteract the depressing effects everything else you're doing is having on you.

If you get up and eat a healthy breakfast and get pepped up on a two-mile 12mph commute to work, and your mitochondria are activated by light exercise instead of caffeine, you're not going to crash or get into a cycle of caffeine dependency to keep you going until you can finally manage a gym workout or workout ride. If your 20 minute 12mph work commute makes you feel good, you will be hopping around your work as well, and you won't be worn out at the end of the day either, so you will have plenty of energy to do shopping and/or run some other errands after work.

With LCF, you are basically taking exercise from being an isolated thing framed within an overall sedentary lifestyle and turning your whole day into a lot of light, physical activity. It's a different paradigm in the relationship between your body and everything else you do, really. And I think your mitochondria like it and reward you with a steadier stream of energy, which can cause you to seek out less artificial pepping up with things like caffeine and sugar.
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Old 07-15-18, 01:12 PM
  #46  
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If the first question asked is serious and has some relation to transportation cycling and weight loss or obesity then the formula is clear. It will always come down to calories in verses calories out. How cycling makes people feel is 100 percent subjective. But how slow cycling for a short distance is measurable.

Slow cycling uses about 31 calories per mile. Oatmeal for breakfast is about 150 to 180 for a small bowl. No sugar no butter no milk. It takes 4 to 6 miles just to burn those 150 to 180 calories. Somewhere I have read the average American diet is 2000 calories or more. At 12 mph it will take closer to 8 to 10 hours to burn off calories at 12 mph. And considering 12 mph isnít even aerobic I might take longer. It is diet and exercise and most exercise calculations show aerobic exercise is more efficient at getting the bodies furnace going. So if indeed weight loss is what the OP post was about strolling and coasting along on a bike will not do it without extra exercise and diet.

Just as an an aside I was never as awake or energetic as I was the eight years I rode my motorcycle to work. As exciting as it was it wouldnít help with weight loss.

Last edited by Mobile 155; 07-15-18 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 07-15-18, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Slow cycling uses about 31 calories per mile. Oatmeal for breakfast is about 150 to 180 for a small bowl. No sugar no butter no milk. It takes 4 to 6 miles just to burn those 150 to 180 calories. Somewhere I have read the average American diet is 2000 calories or more. At 12 mph it will take closer to 8 to 10 hours to burn off calories at 12 mph. And considering 12 mph isnít even aerobic I might take longer.
Using your figure of 31 kcal/mile, the person riding at 12mph for 8-10 hours would be burning about 3000-3700 kcals which puts him at a severe calorie deficit if his diet is only 2000 kcals. And an average male may have a basal metabolism rate of about 1700 kcal/day (i.e. uses that many kcals just to maintain essential body functions and temperature). So his total calorie output (assuming no other significant physical activities) would be about 4700 - 5400 kcal. vs. an intake of only 2000 kcal. - not a sustainable level of exertion at that dietary intake.

And what do you mean by "isn't even aerobic"? Any muscular movement requires oxygen from the air. If it's a very intense exertion, such as the finishing sprint in a bike race, it uses up oxygen faster than the lungs can replenish it and is deemed to be anaerobic and leaves the participant gasping for breath. Exercise at lower levels is aerobic since the lungs can maintain reasonably constant levels of oxygen in the blood.
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Old 07-15-18, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
And considering 12 mph isnít even aerobic.
Cycling at 12 mph is considered a low intensity aerobic exercise.
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Old 07-15-18, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Using your figure of 31 kcal/mile, the person riding at 12mph for 8-10 hours would be burning about 3000-3700 kcals which puts him at a severe calorie deficit if his diet is only 2000 kcals. And an average male may have a basal metabolism rate of about 1700 kcal/day (i.e. uses that many kcals just to maintain essential body functions and temperature). So his total calorie output (assuming no other significant physical activities) would be about 4700 - 5400 kcal. vs. an intake of only 2000 kcal. - not a sustainable level of exertion at that dietary intake.

And what do you mean by "isn't even aerobic"? Any muscular movement requires oxygen from the air. If it's a very intense exertion, such as the finishing sprint in a bike race, it uses up oxygen faster than the lungs can replenish it and is deemed to be anaerobic and leaves the participant gasping for breath. Exercise at lower levels is aerobic since the lungs can maintain reasonably constant levels of oxygen in the blood.
I misspoke. setting up training zones with my Garmin I discovered 12 mph on my bike was not much higher than walking the dog as far as heart rate. And while I did miscalculate the time a 12 mph cyclist would take it does seem as if it would take closer to 64 miles to burn just under 2000 calories at 12 mph. 31x64 = 1984. That is a bit more than 5.33 hours and the heart rate would still be under 120 or zone 1. For the people I ride with zone one is resting recovery.

That same zone is what is used for cool down and recovery in spin class. Zone 1 is not going to turn an obese person into a fit person with a two mile ride to work and a two mile ride home. At that pace you arenít putting out any more effort than cruising down a MUP dodging strollers. So you will never get the calories out that you took in at that rate.

in zone two things start to change.

http://www.fitdigits.com/phone/perso...ate-zones.html
and the news for some gets even more complicated considering the more fit you are the fewer calories you seem to burn for the same effort.

yes it might be better than sitting on the sofa, I agreed to that. But it is not as effective of a tool for fat burning and fitness as riding a half Century or Brevet no matter how one feels while they do it.

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Old 07-15-18, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Cycling at 12 mph is considered a low intensity aerobic exercise.
i mispoke.
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