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Dockless Bike Sharing

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Old 07-23-18, 11:01 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
There are many different ways to 'share' ownership from franchising to publicly listed stock offerings, to insurance, extended warranty plans, etc. etc. None of these dooms any other business to failure . . .or do they?
No, those things don't doom a business to failure - but they also don't magically rescue a business that was otherwise doomed to fail. Franchising generally works by first showing that you can run a nice profit at a few locations and then selling others the rights to use your brand and letting them establish their own stores taking advantage of the favorable name you've initially established. If the first store is a bust then you never get to the franchise stage. Likewise insurance works only when you initially get your risks under control so you can convince the insurance company that your reasonable premiums will cover their costs in the long run and give them a decent profit in addition. Insurance doesn't usually actually save the individual money over the long term - but it's useful in changing the possibility of a large, unexpected loss into a manageable series of monthly premium payments.

The idea of having large numbers of franchise owners in each town who are responsible for their own handful of bikes or scooters strikes me as terribly inefficient. If we're talking about the electric scooters then I'd have to go out each day and drive all over town finding my 10 scooters to recharge and/or service them. In the process I'd probably be driving right by large numbers of other people's scooters but couldn't touch them. Far better to have a single company that owns all the scooters so they can send a truck to each neighborhood and service all the scooters that happened to end up in that vicinity.
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Old 07-24-18, 06:41 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
That would be far, far too sensible, Machka.

Where's the fun in purchasing and using one's own little scooter thingy, or bicycle, or relying on Shank's pony for that matter?

No, what is needed is an incredibly complex hypothetical solution, involving all sorts of high tech gadgetry and expense, to rather predictable problems created by coming up with a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place.
That's exactly what I was going to say!!
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Old 07-24-18, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Why do we have to share all these things? Why not just buy one of your own?
badger1 beat me to it.
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Old 07-24-18, 07:52 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
No, those things don't doom a business to failure - but they also don't magically rescue a business that was otherwise doomed to fail. Franchising generally works by first showing that you can run a nice profit at a few locations and then selling others the rights to use your brand and letting them establish their own stores taking advantage of the favorable name you've initially established. If the first store is a bust then you never get to the franchise stage. Likewise insurance works only when you initially get your risks under control so you can convince the insurance company that your reasonable premiums will cover their costs in the long run and give them a decent profit in addition. Insurance doesn't usually actually save the individual money over the long term - but it's useful in changing the possibility of a large, unexpected loss into a manageable series of monthly premium payments.

The idea of having large numbers of franchise owners in each town who are responsible for their own handful of bikes or scooters strikes me as terribly inefficient. If we're talking about the electric scooters then I'd have to go out each day and drive all over town finding my 10 scooters to recharge and/or service them. In the process I'd probably be driving right by large numbers of other people's scooters but couldn't touch them. Far better to have a single company that owns all the scooters so they can send a truck to each neighborhood and service all the scooters that happened to end up in that vicinity.
Yes, but what I'm saying is that the single company doesn't have to be the owner of the scooters. The scooters can be owned by independent franchises and the company can act as a dispatch service and insurer of the bike/scooter population as a whole. That way you as a franchise owner wouldn't have to be responsible for your own 10 or 20 bikes/scooters directly. You could perform your share of maintenance by servicing/charging whichever 10 or 20 bikes/scooters are nearest to you and that would give you credit, which would cover the people who took care of your 10 or 20 bikes/scooters.

Basically it would be a service co-op. You could even have owners who farmed out their service duties to others by paying them. That would basically just be like buying shares of a company. I.e. you buy 20 shares by buying 20 bikes/scooters at $100 each plus the same number of service plans at, say, $100 each. Now you've spent $4000 and your bikes/scooters are guaranteed and serviced for a certain period of time. In effect, it is the same thing as buying stock in a company, except you directly own a certain amount of the company hardware because you bought it from them, the way a franchise buys hardware from the mother company.

I think the first part of your post just gets bogged down in assumptions like the notion that a franchise has to start small and grow. Obviously these bike/scooter shares don't need to start small because their business edge is the fact they can produce a large run of bikes/scooters and then deploy them throughout an area to provide convenience of access at all the stops within a transit network. This is a solution of the last-mile problem where there are a lot of 'last miles' and to attract people to relying on transit exclusively, you need consistency throughout the service area. If you have share bikes/scooters at some transit stops and not others, people are going to have to figure out before taking transit that they can rely on a share bike/scooter at their destination. If, however, they can trust there will be a bike/scooter to use wherever transit takes them, it solves the last mile problem and makes transit more time-efficient and thus attractive.
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Old 07-24-18, 10:36 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by 2manybikes View Post
That's exactly what I was going to say!!
Sigh. If that is true, then it is sadly very clear: you, like me, have either succumbed entirely to the dark, evil forces of what those who know about such things refer to as 'Car/Automotivist Culture' OR you are a malicious agent of the mysterious forces who manipulate that 'culture' to their own ends -- little gnomes in Zurich standing on 'grassy knolls', that sort of thing. You can read all about this 'truth' on the interwebz ... apparently.

If you are such an agent, you have of course been sent here to the LCF sub-forum intentionally to mock, belittle, and disrupt the quiet conversations of those who know better and who stand united on the side of Truth and Goodness and stuff.

Either way, you like me must be

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Old 07-24-18, 10:37 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
You mean you can walk to find a bike to ride anywhere you want? What are the chances a dock-less bike will be outside of your office? Well unless you have a docking station right outside and then you still have to drop it off at a station and walk to where you don't have to ride back.
In situations that support it, like downtown Chicago, you will check the app and see if any bikes are located near you, or else you will happen upon an available one outside the subway entrance or beside your favourite cafe and decide on the spot to use it. If you are in a less popular area and you don't see a bike located nearby, you will travel by some other means.
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Old 07-24-18, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
Sigh. If that is true, then it is sadly very clear: you, like me, have either succumbed entirely to the dark, evil forces of what those who know about such things refer to as 'Car/Automotivist Culture' OR you are a malicious agent of the mysterious forces who manipulate that 'culture' to their own ends -- little gnomes in Zurich standing on 'grassy knolls', that sort of thing. You can read all about this 'truth' on the interwebz ... apparently.

If you are such an agent, you have of course been sent here to the LCF sub-forum intentionally to mock, belittle, and disrupt the quiet conversations of those who know better and who stand united on the side of Truth and Goodness and stuff.

Either way, you like me must be

The Russians did not interfere with this post. There is no collusion. Fake news.
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Old 07-24-18, 11:06 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by 2manybikes View Post
The Russians did not interfere with this post. There is no collusion. Fake news.
P&R

... but then, that's nothing new around here. Sub-forum should be sub-titled 'P&R Lite', imo.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:00 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
P&R

... but then, that's nothing new around here. Sub-forum should be sub-titled 'P&R Lite', imo.
this forum is designed just as it is so some have a place to discuss social and advocacy issues without the constraints of practically.

Just look at one if the other topics going going on here, Cars dividing America. The linked article contains references to the last presidential election and assertion on social status based on transportation choices.

It will be interesting to see the mods keep that on topic rather than move it.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
In situations that support it, like downtown Chicago, you will check the app and see if any bikes are located near you, or else you will happen upon an available one outside the subway entrance or beside your favourite cafe and decide on the spot to use it. If you are in a less popular area and you don't see a bike located nearby, you will travel by some other means.
i still wonder what makes an heavy ill fitting bike a better option than one that fits you will top rated components you own. As far as dockless scooters go the kids here fold them and carry them or put them in a back pack when they aren’t being used. Always there when you want to go somewhere and you know what condition they are in.

But tgen by the rules of this forum by renting you would be bike and scooter free and get an additional badge for your lapel? lol.
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Old 07-24-18, 03:51 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


i still wonder what makes an heavy ill fitting bike a better option than one that fits you will top rated components you own. As far as dockless scooters go the kids here fold them and carry them or put them in a back pack when they aren’t being used. Always there when you want to go somewhere and you know what condition they are in.

But tgen by the rules of this forum by renting you would be bike and scooter free and get an additional badge for your lapel? lol.
Scooters are a lot more portable than bikes. If you use your own bike for a trip you have to commit to using it for the whole trip or locking it somewhere and returning to it. WIth docked or dockless bikes you use them for any part of the trip that suits you and then forget about them. Youmight walk to the bus stop, go downtown, and then decide to bike home, or the other way around. Or you might drive downtown and circle for 20 minutes before you can park in front of a store, then discover they don't have what you want but they tell you another store half a mile away might have it. It would be a huge pain to drive there and search for another parking spot, but you didn't think to bring your Devinci, so you hop on a share bike, go get what you came for and return to your car to drive home.
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Old 07-24-18, 04:25 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
i still wonder what makes an heavy ill fitting bike a better option than one that fits you will top rated components you own.
A heavy ill-fitting bike located just down the block is a better option than some superior bike locked up securely miles away at your home. I am one of very few people in our bike club who regularly uses a bike for regular transportation functions. Most of their bikes 'with top-rated components' stay securely at home except when used for a recreational ride where the bike is never out of sight.

The feasibility and utility of docked bike systems seems pretty well established, at least for dense urban areas like New York City. An advantage of these systems is that the renter has some responsibility for keeping the bike safe and undamaged while it is away from a docking station and the docking stations can be designed to minimize the chance of theft and/or vandalism while bikes are stored there. Dockless systems strike me as inherently far more problematic for both the city/public with bikes potentially left in hazardous or inappropriate locations and for the system operator due to problems with theft, vandalism, and increased maintenance issues.
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Old 07-24-18, 06:11 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
A heavy ill-fitting bike located just down the block is a better option than some superior bike locked up securely miles away at your home. I am one of very few people in our bike club who regularly uses a bike for regular transportation functions. Most of their bikes 'with top-rated components' stay securely at home except when used for a recreational ride where the bike is never out of sight.

The feasibility and utility of docked bike systems seems pretty well established, at least for dense urban areas like New York City. An advantage of these systems is that the renter has some responsibility for keeping the bike safe and undamaged while it is away from a docking station and the docking stations can be designed to minimize the chance of theft and/or vandalism while bikes are stored there. Dockless systems strike me as inherently far more problematic for both the city/public with bikes potentially left in hazardous or inappropriate locations and for the system operator due to problems with theft, vandalism, and increased maintenance issues.
but alas we aren’t talking a docked bike or scooter. We are talking pickup where you find one and drop where you please heavy bad fitting bikes. We are also talking $1.75 every 30 minutes in places like LA metro. So with you own bike, I also have a coffee shop and utility bike just for that purpose in addition to my other bikes. So my bike is always available.

At rates where I live the basic pick me up drop me off one stop Uber ride is about $5.25-5.60. About 90 minutes worth of bad bike.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post

but alas we aren’t talking a docked bike or scooter. We are talking pickup where you find one and drop where you please heavy bad fitting bikes. We are also talking $1.75 every 30 minutes in places like LA metro. So with you own bike, I also have a coffee shop and utility bike just for that purpose in addition to my other bikes. So my bike is always available.

At rates where I live the basic pick me up drop me off one stop Uber ride is about $5.25-5.60. About 90 minutes worth of bad bike.
Next time you're in LA will you have any of your own bikes with you?
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Old 07-24-18, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Next time you're in LA will you have any of your own bikes with you?
as a matter of fact yes. But it is mostly passing through to Long Beach. I would never take a bike if my wife was with me. She doesn’t ride. Unless I am meeting someone for dinner. (rarely happens anymore). Then I would drive and use valet parking.

Last time I was there I went to see a actor friend in a play. It got out after dark and I don’t walk or ride in LA after dark other than into or out of a venue. Hollywood bowl and the Greek have plenty of parking.
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Old 07-24-18, 11:09 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post

this forum is designed just as it is so some have a place to discuss social and advocacy issues without the constraints of practically.

Just look at one if the other topics going going on here, Cars dividing America. The linked article contains references to the last presidential election and assertion on social status based on transportation choices.

It will be interesting to see the mods keep that on topic rather than move it.



Given that the mods are not car free ...


Given that the organisation who owns this forum (Internet Brands) is a car organisation ...


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Old 07-25-18, 06:26 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Given that the mods are not car free ...


Given that the organisation who owns this forum (Internet Brands) is a car organisation ...


Also given that most of the posters on this list are not car free; "car light" includes almost every car owning person in North America who does not drive in his/her personally owned motor vehicle 24/7.

Heck, one of the regular posters on this list owns/drives an F350 while proudly waving his "Car Lite" banner on this list.
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Old 07-25-18, 08:41 AM
  #118  
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Purism, shmurism. This reminds me of people who criticize vegetarians for wearing leather or eating dairy.
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Old 07-25-18, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Purism, shmurism. This reminds me of people who criticize vegetarians for wearing leather or eating dairy.
Would you sing the praises of living car free and take on airs about it, while still owning and driving a personally owned motor vehicle?
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Old 07-25-18, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Would you sing the praises of living car free and take on airs about it, while still owning and driving a personally owned motor vehicle?
Putting on airs is rude. If I reduced my car driving, yes, it would be worth mentioning. Come to think of it, I've reduced my car use drastically in recent years, and my life feels much better. Did I just say something bad?
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Old 07-25-18, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Would you sing the praises of living car free and take on airs about it, while still owning and driving a personally owned motor vehicle?
You can own a motor-vehicle without being proud of it the same as you can do anything else out of pragmatism without embracing it as an ideal.
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Old 07-25-18, 05:49 PM
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City of Denton - Bike/Walk Denton
V-BIKE SCAVENGER HUNT!
Have you seen a V-BIKE in your neighborhood? If so, you could help us by reporting it to: [email protected]
These bikes are considered abandoned property. The city is in the process of impounding all remaining V-Bikes and we need your help to find them. Report an abandoned bike and you'll be eligible to pick a prize from our amazing closet of wonders! (Bike/Walk Denton t-shirt, helmet, or bike light, etc.)
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Old 08-03-18, 09:40 AM
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Dockless share has a purpose. If you live in an area where bike theft is common, then there are places you simply will not ride your own bike because you know locking it up will result in vandalism or theft. In those situations, dockless bike share makes sense. I will NOT ride my $2k+ bike to my favorite movie theater because I won't leave it locked up anywhere near there, knowing I will not see it for more than 2 hours. Taking a heavy rent bike makes much more sense than risking my own bike in that situation and several others. My bike is great for exercise rides and riding to places where I can take it in (folding bike) or can see it through a window. I don't want to own and maintain a second beater bike just for those rides to places that are risky, so the bike share takes the place of the beater bike. It also works for unplanned trips when I'm already out without my bike. It works for my friend to get to and from work without having to deal with where to secure his personal bike. Lime bikes ride "well enough" for short distances. So the reality is that dockless bike share is replacing car use in situations where people can't or won't ride their own bikes and would either drive themselves or take Uber/Lyft. It's one less car in those situations so it's all good.
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Old 08-05-18, 03:37 AM
  #124  
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I visited a hardware shop the other day that sells a lot of banktruptcy stuff too, and it had 4 O-bikes on sale, for 119 euro's each. Probably collected by some city council and sold on to traders. Seems like usable bikes, would be a shame to just have them destroyed.

It seems to me dockless isn't the issue per se. It could work if the company would take responsability for the bikes and have them retrieved and put in a better location if they are left for too long. They don't need docks, they need a man in a van with a GPS locater.
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Old 08-05-18, 07:24 AM
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@linberl , your comments are my exact comments for Citi Bike, a "dockful" program. What makes dockless different in that respect?
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