Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Dockless Bike Sharing

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Old 08-10-18, 02:20 PM
  #201  
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This place is a pissing match.
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Old 08-10-18, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
This place is a pissing match.
Uncorrect.

'Tis a place where, always ...

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Old 08-10-18, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Are you sure a plane load of Automotive vandals didn't land in China and do all of this just to keep people from becoming car free? Or could this be just how people are willing to treat a drop anywhere bicycle just because that is how drop anywhere works?
Here's what I don't understand: if you are on the side of the car economy to the point that you enjoy seeing strife in all these developments that attempt to make LCF more convenient and attractive, why not be honorable and just admit there are people with so much fear of the automotive economy losing momentum that they are willing to attack dockless bikes/scooters? Does it add satisfaction to the anti-LCF movement to deny that this hate against convenient affordable alternatives to driving is what it is? Does it feel better to deny it while rooting for it? Or is it just you're afraid it will make your side look bad if people see the dirty underhanded tactics used?
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Old 08-10-18, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
we disproportionately hear horror stories of how awful bicyclists are, because we've become blind to car offenses
Is it really disproportionate or do we just pay more attention because we're cyclists? In this day and age, someone is ranting about anything you could imagine. The only place I really see anti cycling rants is when they are reproduced here. They're pulled from somewhere, so they exist of course, but they aren't sufficiently prevalent that I run across them in the rest of my life. If I hear any 'stupid people' complaints, they're almost always about dumb moves by auto drivers. My impression is most people don't think twice about cyclists.
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Old 08-10-18, 06:05 PM
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Is that your house?
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Old 08-10-18, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Here's what I don't understand: if you are on the side of the car economy to the point that you enjoy seeing strife in all these developments that attempt to make LCF more convenient and attractive, why not be honorable and just admit there are people with so much fear of the automotive economy losing momentum that they are willing to attack dockless bikes/scooters? Does it add satisfaction to the anti-LCF movement to deny that this hate against convenient affordable alternatives to driving is what it is? Does it feel better to deny it while rooting for it? Or is it just you're afraid it will make your side look bad if people see the dirty underhanded tactics used?
sometimes it is just low hanging fruit. I donít believe in Sasquatch, space aliens or the idea there is an organized conspiracy against every loony business plan that struggles because it didnít take competition and customers in account.

Even in a site called Bicycle Forums car free is a super minority. In the car free forum the people that are car free are a minority. Check it out sometime. In other words very few people are interested enough to care if someone rent owns or rides a bike let alone how much. It isnít on the radar of blue chip corporate Americaís board rooms.

There is is no conspiracy to make dockless bikes fail by anyone from the auto industry except in the mind of someone that believes in conspiracies. There has been no evidence that anything but bad planning and administration has caused these failures but some insist it isnít the plan it is some outside agency that doesnít even know this unorganized quest you call LCF exists.

No it doesnít fill me with joy because I donít see it as a real issue. I see the whole idea of automotive vandals as wishful thinking by someone that cannot see a bad business plan when they see it.

But you go ahead and have fun with it. It is entertaining.

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Old 08-10-18, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


sometimes it is just low hanging fruit. I donít believe in Sasquatch, space aliens or the idea there is an organized conspiracy against every loony business plan that struggles because it didnít take competition and customers in account.

Even in a site called Bicycle Forums car free is a super minority. In the car free forum the people that are car free are a minority. Check it out sometime. In other words very few people are interested enough to care if someone rent owns or rides a bike let alone how much. It isnít on the radar of blue chip corporate Americaís board rooms.

There is is no conspiracy to make dockless bikes fail by anyone from the auto industry except in the mind of someone that believes in conspiracies. There has been no evidence that anything but bad planning and administration has caused these failures but some insist it isnít the plan it is some outside agency that doesnít even know this unorganized quest you call LCF exists.

No it doesnít fill me with joy because I donít see it as a real issue. I see the whole idea of automotive vandals as wishful thinking by someone that cannot see a bad business plan when they see it.

But you go ahead and have fun with it. It is entertaining.
This, and this.
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Old 08-10-18, 07:31 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Even in a site called Bicycle Forums car free is a super minority. In the car free forum the people that are car free are a minority. Check it out sometime. In other words very few people are interested enough to care if someone rent owns or rides a bike let alone how much. It isn’t on the radar of blue chip corporate America’s board rooms.

Obviously some people care enough to invest in these bike/scooter shares at a global level, and surely you can't think that no one else takes notice. I wonder if you realize that it is a business tactic to downplay the significance of competition, as you do. If no one was worried about LCF gaining popularity, why all the attention and harm to all these technologies that emerge to facilitate it?

In other words, why not just allow these dockless share companies grow and make it as convenient as possible to not drive?

There is is no conspiracy to make dockless bikes fail by anyone from the auto industry except in the mind of someone that believes in conspiracies. There has been no evidence that anything but bad planning and administration has caused these failures but some insist it isn’t the plan it is some outside agency that doesn’t even know this unorganized quest you call LCF exists.
You habitually deny but never reflect on why you deny. I will just assume it's because you know it makes the car-economy defenders look more insidious, and that they want to win economically without looking insidious.

No it doesn’t fill me with joy because I don’t see it as a real issue. I see the whole idea of automotive vandals as wishful thinking by someone that cannot see a bad business plan when they see it.
Dockless bike/scooter sharing is a quantum leap in LCF convenience. It is very difficult to combine transit use with bike/scooter use for the last mile because buses can only carry two bikes at a time and it is unnerving to leave your bike locked at a bus stop while you go somewhere by bus.

Docked bike/scooter sharing is fine if you only want to ride back and forth to a dock, but for transportation it's much more convenient to pick up a bike/scooter wherever and park it wherever. This freedom is obviously a problem to some people or they would not be attacking/vandalizing these bikes/scooters and putting them down in the media.

Someone here even mentioned that the problem with them is that they don't make enough money. Obviously there are investors willing to fund them, so the problem for their enemies is clearly they don't want them to become established for people to use instead of more lucrative business models that take more money from users.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:06 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Is it really disproportionate or do we just pay more attention because we're cyclists? In this day and age, someone is ranting about anything you could imagine. The only place I really see anti cycling rants is when they are reproduced here. They're pulled from somewhere, so they exist of course, but they aren't sufficiently prevalent that I run across them in the rest of my life. If I hear any 'stupid people' complaints, they're almost always about dumb moves by auto drivers. My impression is most people don't think twice about cyclists.
In this discussion, we have people from many different places. I don't know how prominent cyclists are in Tallahassee, but they're very prominent here. When people hear I'm a cyclist, some of them are quick to tell me that cyclists nearly hit them recently. I think we are inured to bad things motor drivers do, because we've lived with that crap for so long.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:23 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Not that much actually. There are still plenty of bicycles parked in front of the Heidelberg Hbf. You should learn to use the rotate tool in the right corner of Google Street View.
Agreed - I just wanted to hilight the rental bikes as you had been so emphatic about there not being a single one in your earlier picture (as if you could know that) but if you click on the link I included, you can see the whole thing
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Old 08-10-18, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
More recent photos on the parking of "shared" dockless bicycles.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...eyards/566576/
I agree it's a ridiculous mess, although you can temper it a bit with the knowledge that there are probably half a billion or more privately owned bikes in China, and several million rental bikes actually in use, so this burst bubble of investment in now discarded dockless bikes likely represents something like 1% of the overall fleet.

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Old 08-10-18, 10:11 PM
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Is that your house?
No ... a coffee shop somewhere in central Victoria.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:15 PM
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Here are a couple others I like ...

That's Rowan in the orange jacket walking his bicycle through the midst of them all ...








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Old 08-10-18, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Obviously some people care enough to invest in these bike/scooter shares at a global level, and surely you can't think that no one else takes notice. I wonder if you realize that it is a business tactic to downplay the significance of competition, as you do. If no one was worried about LCF gaining popularity, why all the attention and harm to all these technologies that emerge to facilitate it?


In other words, why not just allow these dockless share companies grow and make it as convenient as possible to not drive?



You habitually deny but never reflect on why you deny. I will just assume it's because you know it makes the car-economy defenders look more insidious, and that they want to win economically without looking insidious.


Dockless bike/scooter sharing is a quantum leap in LCF convenience. It is very difficult to combine transit use with bike/scooter use for the last mile because buses can only carry two bikes at a time and it is unnerving to leave your bike locked at a bus stop while you go somewhere by bus.


Docked bike/scooter sharing is fine if you only want to ride back and forth to a dock, but for transportation it's much more convenient to pick up a bike/scooter wherever and park it wherever. This freedom is obviously a problem to some people or they would not be attacking/vandalizing these bikes/scooters and putting them down in the media.


Someone here even mentioned that the problem with them is that they don't make enough money. Obviously there are investors willing to fund them, so the problem for their enemies is clearly they don't want them to become established for people to use instead of more lucrative business models that take more money from users.

If you believe the Auto Industry is doing "any" of this connect the dot's. Show an arrest of a person working for the industry or being paid as a vandal. Using your logic are anti Bill board people tagging bill boards so TV and Radio and Newspaper adds can suppress them? Is it anti clean wall people tag clean walls? Do anti news paper dispensers people hire vandals to trash their machines? Do Anti street sign corporations exist to pay people to tag street signs? If no who is doing all of this? It used to cost me $3500.00 a year to cover the taggers from adding their art work to the side of my warehouse every year. Were there anti warehouse people paying to have that done? On and not one of the taggers on our video cameras were ever arrested. Not one. Maybe if we had thought to blame the Auto industry we would have received satisfaction?


You have no evidence or even a legitimate reason to assume the auto industry is responsible for the thousands of abandoned bikes in China. Look at the pictures ILTB posted, click with you mouse and affirm that anyone other than the people dropping off those bikes are responsible for the piles of bikes? You cannot nor can anypne else. And in China if there are criminals involved there would be nothing stopping them from arresting the people responsible.


Look at what is happening and find out why before you look under your bed for the automotive boogeyman. ask your friends if they support your contention. Check your sources to see if anyone agrees.


But even after you do I am sure your response will be entertaining and maybe ever funny. Perhaps the Ford Family or GM can be brought before congress and charged with conspiracy. Be sure to list the site you get your confirmation from, I would love to read it.
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Old 08-11-18, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
In this discussion, we have people from many different places. I don't know how prominent cyclists are in Tallahassee, but they're very prominent here. When people hear I'm a cyclist, some of them are quick to tell me that cyclists nearly hit them recently. I think we are inured to bad things motor drivers do, because we've lived with that crap for so long.
I don't get that at all, but as you note it may well be a function of there being a much smaller percentage of bicycle commuters. Even with a large university, the number of transportation cyclists is low. And lower population density in general probably leads to a bit less tension overall on the roadways. Although we have relatively few commuting cyclists in the city, the area in which I live sees a lot of club riders. Large groups on Saturday mornings and Wednesday evenings. And drivers seem pretty accepting of the inevitable (albeit brief) delays such groups create.

But when people see me riding in the city the only comments I ever get are they'd be too afraid to ride a bike on city streets.
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Old 08-11-18, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
I don't get that at all, but as you note it may well be a function of there being a much smaller percentage of bicycle commuters. Even with a large university, the number of transportation cyclists is low.
I suspect that Tallahassee with 1% bike commuters, is in the same ballpark as the low percentage of New York City's 1.2%.

The percentage of NYC commuters who bike to work has increased from an infinitesimally small percentage in the past to a measurable slice at 1.2% of commuters. This alleged dramatic increase does make for good newspaper copy/hype, attention on social media sites and water cooler chatter/gossip.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/...re-in-the-u-s/
https://bikeleague.org/sites/default..._Ride_2016.pdf
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Old 08-11-18, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
But even after you do I am sure your response will be entertaining and maybe ever funny.
You called it; un[darn]believable political nonsense!
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Old 08-11-18, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
You called it; un[darn]believable political nonsense!
it would be great if we could find the source of all evils in one supported interested industry. Before bike shares we had vandalism and theft. People here suggested getting a beater bike to ride simply because they get stolen so often. Local police departments have warehouses full of bikes the sell every year after recovering them and not getting owners to pick them up.

i simply cannot attribute such things to a automotive conspiracy and donít see how someone would believe there are CEOs at Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and Nissan that would contribute any shareholders money for any anti LCF bike vandalism.

the logic would be the same if I were to suggest all parking lot car damage was perpetrated by cyclists and other LCF advocates. Who would believe the international headquarters of the LCF vandals was being directed from Florida? No such assumptions would be silly. Just as the assumption that all failed business models are directed from some international board meeting of car lovers and their politicians.

When you post post the links you posted it doesnít mean the people leaving the bikes piled up are anti bike. They just have no reason to care what happens once they leave the bike where they were finished with it.

We have learned a long time ago that if you put on an event where food is being sold on paper plates and on sticks and in bags you must provide trash receptacles. If you do not people will drop trash where ever they want. Even when you do people tend to leave trash scattered about. No conspiracy is necessary. Sometimes people are the problem all by themselves.
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Old 08-11-18, 01:52 PM
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Let’s keep this thread on topic and avoid political content. One post with political content just got deleted.

It’s an interesting thread so please keep it going with political talk. Thanks

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Old 08-11-18, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Is it really disproportionate or do we just pay more attention because we're cyclists? In this day and age, someone is ranting about anything you could imagine. The only place I really see anti cycling rants is when they are reproduced here. They're pulled from somewhere, so they exist of course, but they aren't sufficiently prevalent that I run across them in the rest of my life. If I hear any 'stupid people' complaints, they're almost always about dumb moves by auto drivers. My impression is most people don't think twice about cyclists.
Are there lots of cyclists where you live? In the Bay Area, drivers are constantly complaining about cyclists...online, in print, and in person. Hardly anyone complains about the bad drivers (which are prevalent) because we so used to it it doesn't phase us anymore.
Anti-cyclist complaints range from the common "they break laws" to the "don't spend more taxpayer money on infrastructure" to "those damned bikes and scooters are a hazard". Blah blah blah. In the meantime, we all pay taxes for the roads and the police and auto infrastructure.

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Old 08-11-18, 04:55 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Are there lots of cyclists where you live? In the Bay Area, drivers are constantly complaining about cyclists...online, in print, and in person.
Where do you hear all the complaining from drivers about cyclists? Or are you selectively reading and remembering comments you view as anti-cyclists posted on-line or in print in the letters to the editor/Op-ed pieces by the usual suspects of wackos who can be found anonymously whining and complaining about any/every subject under the sun. I am sure if you peruse on-line "comments" long enough you might find a few anti-cyclist conspiracy theories even nuttier than those posted on this list.
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Old 08-11-18, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Where do you hear all the complaining from drivers about cyclists? Or are you selectively reading and remembering comments you view as anti-cyclists posted on-line or in print in the letters to the editor/Op-ed pieces by the usual suspects of wackos who can be found anonymously whining and complaining about any/every subject under the sun. I am sure if you peruse on-line "comments" long enough you might find a few anti-cyclist conspiracy theories even nuttier than those posted on this list.
It's not selective. There are two websites with local content I follow (Nextdoor & Berkeleysides). Every single time there is an article about an accident of any kind, or bad traffic, or the condition of our roads, etc. etc. etc., various people chime in at some point about the bad behavior of cyclists, how cyclists act like they own the road, yada yada yada. I don't have to go looking for it; it hits me right in the face. The same thing happens in the local print media, although less frequently as it is printed less frequently. We have a huge percentage of cyclists where I live compared to most any other part of the country.
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Old 08-12-18, 04:08 AM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
i simply cannot attribute such things to a automotive conspiracy and donít see how someone would believe there are CEOs at Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and Nissan that would contribute any shareholders money for any anti LCF bike vandalism.

My other post got deleted, so I can't really respond to all the bait you post, but take a look at this quote from an article about obstructive shopping carts and notice that vandalism isn't even mentioned as a possibility. That's because the vast majority of people don't trash property that's not theirs, even when they are irritated with it being in the way. This indicates to me that there is special bias and aggression against dockelss share bikes and scooters and, sorry, but the culture of car-dominance is a prime suspect as the cause because without that culture, these share vehicles would be embraced as an affordable and efficient alternative to walking everywhere and waiting for transit, which is what people would have to do if there weren't cars and parking spots everywhere littering public space.
Imagine you pull up to a local King Soopers: it's packed, the middle of the day, but you have to get some shopping done. The parking lot is pretty full, but you spot an open parking space and go for it. But - as you pull into the spot you notice something.
It's already taken - by a shopping cart.What's your knee-jerk reaction there? Irritation, right? A few choice words for whoever left it. You either get out and move the cart so you can park, or you just move on.
https://www.9news.com/article/featur...them/463235187
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Old 08-12-18, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
My other post got deleted, so I can't really respond to all the bait you post, but take a look at this quote from an article about obstructive shopping carts and notice that vandalism isn't even mentioned as a possibility. That's because the vast majority of people don't trash property that's not theirs, even when they are irritated with it being in the way. This indicates to me that there is special bias and aggression against dockelss share bikes and scooters and, sorry, but the culture of car-dominance is a prime suspect as the cause because without that culture, these share vehicles would be embraced as an affordable and efficient alternative to walking everywhere and waiting for transit, which is what people would have to do if there weren't cars and parking spots everywhere littering public space.
and who is stealing our personal bicycles? The car culture? Who is tagging our buildings? Who is defacing our park benches? Who is painting grafitti on our subway cars and boxcars? Good thing you didnít go into law enforcement? They have to have evidence before they convict people.

But for laughs and giggles let us address you contention.
1. The store provides carts free to allow shopping.
2. Customers may take the carts out of the store and to their ďcarĒ to unload the things they bought at the store.
3. The store only requests the carts be brought back to the front of the store or in most cases in a cart coral.
4. Even with a space provided close to their vehicle some people leave the carts where they can interfere with other people using a parking space.

5. Drivers, car people, automotive people, pull up and discover a cart blocking the space they wanted to use.

6. With every right to be irritated the driver gets out of their car or simply moves on rather than toss the cart into the street.

7. Who is the least considerate player in that situation that is played out many times every day.
A. The person that parked the cart where it wasnít sopposed to be?

B. The driver who got out and moved the cart without tossing it on its side?

is it not more reasonable to believe that people tend to be selfish and inconsiderate than to assume there is some anti cart movement placing the carts in difficult places?

If you you can make the leap to personal bad behavior for carts, tagging and vandalism how far of a jump it it to see people just dropping a dock less bike by a dumpster or in an alley or at a old apartment complex where the same people that tagged the dumpster came across the bike? Take a minute and think about it.

But believe what you want. You have you monster in you closet.

Last edited by Mobile 155; 08-12-18 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 08-12-18, 09:29 AM
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I-Like-To-Bike
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
It's not selective. There are two websites with local content I follow (Nextdoor & Berkeleysides). Every single time there is an article about an accident of any kind, or bad traffic, or the condition of our roads, etc. etc. etc., various people chime in at some point about the bad behavior of cyclists, how cyclists act like they own the road, yada yada yada. I don't have to go looking for it; it hits me right in the face. The same thing happens in the local print media, although less frequently as it is printed less frequently. We have a huge percentage of cyclists where I live compared to most any other part of the country.
Not selective and you don't go looking for "comments" that provoke you. OK sure, whatever you say.

Perhaps you should expand your reading to A&S where you can get the real "non selective" lowdown on cyclist - motorist interactions.
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