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Children Riding to School Instead of Walking/Biking

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Children Riding to School Instead of Walking/Biking

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Old 07-31-18, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Like I said, you might be right that majorities win, but you are still on the wrong side when you validate it. Maybe you can only feel powerful by taking sides with majorities and winners against minorities and losers, idk.
This is as close to seeing the light as any post I have read of yours.

by the way, I am a mandated reporter in the case of child abuse. So I do something about it. I have even assisted in child removal as well as spousal abuse rescue. I don’t just sit on my hands and think about it.
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Old 07-31-18, 12:19 PM
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Oy. This is why I don't enjoy forums on advocacy.
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Old 07-31-18, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


This is as close to seeing the light as any post I have read of yours.

by the way, I am a mandated reporter in the case of child abuse. So I do something about it. I have even assisted in child removal as well as spousal abuse rescue. I don’t just sit on my hands and think about it.
why does it give you joy to go on an LCF forum and argue against LCF and berate someone like me for using my intellect in service of it? Does it somehow resonate with your view of yourself as hero? Do you think you're protecting women and children from being deprived of cars and the economy to pay for them?
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Old 07-31-18, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
why does it give you joy to go on an LCF forum and argue against LCF and berate someone like me for using my intellect in service of it? Does it somehow resonate with your view of yourself as hero? Do you think you're protecting women and children from being deprived of cars and the economy to pay for them?
Your perception not mine. I don't see you as walking the walk is all and you assume if I disagree with your ideas I am against bicycles and walking. You have no evidence of either but think you know. You used the example of child abuse so I answered your perception with reality in my case. You asked a question in your OP about walking and cycling to school I answered from experience why that takes place. You assume it is anti car free, I find that strange from someone that wants a car to deliver food to them on a wilderness trail but that is another subject. It is not anti car it is pro social involvement. I don't care if you want to work for less to support your type of lifestyle. I just don't see it as viable or interesting. So I reject it. It is as simple as that. No conspiracy, not a paid lobbyist no matter what you believe. I really don't care one whit if you want to believe you are car free or if you want to advocate for it. I just know I don't believe in your version of it. I don't believe in your version of success either. I don't believe in your version of the future. So we are destined to disagree.
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Old 07-31-18, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Oy. This is why I don't enjoy forums on advocacy.
That is because you are not viewing the BF-LCF brand of The Creative Thinking Process™ through the appropriate reality distortion filters that makes the endless bizarre schemes, conspiracy theories and spacey delusions posted on this list so entertaining.
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Old 07-31-18, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
That is because you are not viewing the BF-LCF brand of The Creative Thinking Process™ through the appropriate reality distortion filters that makes the endless bizarre schemes, conspiracy theories and spacey delusions posted on this list so entertaining.
I guess I would need those filters to understand you, too, because you seem opposed to the concept of LCF (or car lite) and yet you participate here, seemingly to invalidate some people's ideals.
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Old 07-31-18, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Your perception not mine. I don't see you as walking the walk is all and you assume if I disagree with your ideas I am against bicycles and walking. You have no evidence of either but think you know.
You never post anything that's not anti-LCF in some way. When you say I "have no evidence," you sound like a person who lies and then shifts the burden of proof as a deflection.

You used the example of child abuse so I answered your perception with reality in my case.
It was just an example to illustrate a point.

You asked a question in your OP about walking and cycling to school I answered from experience why that takes place. You assume it is anti car free,
It is obvious in that you don't question the judgment of the principal you are describing. It is very similar to the time you posted something about local municipal authorities prohibiting tree planting except what was on the master plan and tearing out any trees that didn't conform to that. It is obviously a statement made as a show of authority against tree-lovers in that instance, and in this one against people who want kids to be able to bike to school. You're basically saying, "the authorities can stop you and you can't do anything about it, nya nya nya." You will probably deny this and call it my interpretation, but you repeatedly post in that way.

I find that strange from someone that wants a car to deliver food to them on a wilderness trail but that is another subject. It is not anti car it is pro social involvement. I don't care if you want to work for less to support your type of lifestyle. I just don't see it as viable or interesting. So I reject it. It is as simple as that.
You don't just reject it. You crusade against it by bringing it up over and over. You make it a point to attack most anything I post in any thread that is car-critical or pro-LCF.

No conspiracy, not a paid lobbyist no matter what you believe. I really don't care one whit if you want to believe you are car free or if you want to advocate for it. I just know I don't believe in your version of it. I don't believe in your version of success either. I don't believe in your version of the future. So we are destined to disagree.
I never expected otherwise, but I don't understand why you make it a point to fight and fight against me. Is it just that it satisfies your hunger to square off against someone and act belligerent? If so, I can understand that. I just get tired of dealing with it being against me.
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Old 07-31-18, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You never post anything that's not anti-LCF in some way. When you say I "have no evidence," you sound like a person who lies and then shifts the burden of proof as a deflection.



It was just an example to illustrate a point.



It is obvious in that you don't question the judgment of the principal you are describing. It is very similar to the time you posted something about local municipal authorities prohibiting tree planting except what was on the master plan and tearing out any trees that didn't conform to that. It is obviously a statement made as a show of authority against tree-lovers in that instance, and in this one against people who want kids to be able to bike to school. You're basically saying, "the authorities can stop you and you can't do anything about it, nya nya nya." You will probably deny this and call it my interpretation, but you repeatedly post in that way.



You don't just reject it. You crusade against it by bringing it up over and over. You make it a point to attack most anything I post in any thread that is car-critical or pro-LCF.



I never expected otherwise, but I don't understand why you make it a point to fight and fight against me. Is it just that it satisfies your hunger to square off against someone and act belligerent? If so, I can understand that. I just get tired of dealing with it being against me.

It is because you don't question the people making the rules you sit at home and post to the web. That is your privilege and one you have held to no matter how many times or how many posters have suggested to go out and see for yourself why things happen.


This whole debate could have been answered if you had contacted your local school district and asked who makes the decision on cycling and walking to school. I told you how it works in my area "Because" I have talked to the district and some principles. You haven't and then complain I am anti LCF because I relay the response I got. I do not see you as a doer. so when you post information I don't believe you have checked up on yourself I tend to toss in what I have experienced. If that bothers you maybe you could do some footwork yourself and get the answer from the source.
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Old 07-31-18, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
It is because you don't question the people making the rules you sit at home and post to the web. That is your privilege and one you have held to no matter how many times or how many posters have suggested to go out and see for yourself why things happen.


This whole debate could have been answered if you had contacted your local school district and asked who makes the decision on cycling and walking to school. I told you how it works in my area "Because" I have talked to the district and some principles. You haven't and then complain I am anti LCF because I relay the response I got. I do not see you as a doer. so when you post information I don't believe you have checked up on yourself I tend to toss in what I have experienced. If that bothers you maybe you could do some footwork yourself and get the answer from the source.
To the extent that people make reason-based decisions, my contribution is to use my intellect to make and deploy reasons about why and how LCF is better than car culture. It's up to people which reasons they deploy and take into account in local decision-making processes. All I can tell you is that there were people who failed to adequately reason in the past and it has led to things being worse. Up to a point, ignorance somewhat excuses it, because the assumption is that people were doing their best to figure things out as well as they could. But there comes a point where people have the opportunity to listen to good reasons to change things, but they reject them because of bad reasons or in bad faith to reasons they know are good but they don't want to be unpopular with people who don't care and just want what they want. When you cater to bad people, that makes you a bad person. If you believe in ultimate accountability, you will eventually account for your moral failures. You can accuse me of not being enough of a 'doer,' but I am square with my conscience and doing what I can best do to pursue what I understand to be good. If that's all you're doing, then what more could anyone expect of you? Personally I think you see a lot of things wrong and do wrong in a lot of what you think and say, but if you honestly try your hardest and that is the best you can come up with, who could fault you for that?
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Old 07-31-18, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
To the extent that people make reason-based decisions, my contribution is to use my intellect to make and deploy reasons about why and how LCF is better than car culture. It's up to people which reasons they deploy and take into account in local decision-making processes. All I can tell you is that there were people who failed to adequately reason in the past and it has led to things being worse. Up to a point, ignorance somewhat excuses it, because the assumption is that people were doing their best to figure things out as well as they could. But there comes a point where people have the opportunity to listen to good reasons to change things, but they reject them because of bad reasons or in bad faith to reasons they know are good but they don't want to be unpopular with people who don't care and just want what they want. When you cater to bad people, that makes you a bad person. If you believe in ultimate accountability, you will eventually account for your moral failures. You can accuse me of not being enough of a 'doer,' but I am square with my conscience and doing what I can best do to pursue what I understand to be good. If that's all you're doing, then what more could anyone expect of you? Personally I think you see a lot of things wrong and do wrong in a lot of what you think and say, but if you honestly try your hardest and that is the best you can come up with, who could fault you for that?

1. my contribution is to use my intellect to make and deploy reasons about why and how LCF is better than car culture. This is not doing. asking they people doing what you object to is doing.


2. ignorance somewhat excuses it, Accusing people you have not talked to of being ignorant is the spreading of self centered fertilizer.


3. You can accuse me of not being enough of a 'doer,' but I am square with my conscience and doing what I can best do to pursue what I understand to be good. If that's all you're doing, then what more could anyone expect of you? Until you have looked at the object of your concern up close I simply cannot see anyone being satisfied with their self as doing their best. Until you have addressed the reasoning of why someone is doing what they are doing you are shooting in the dark. The very first time I heard this walking and cycling issue at our schools I went to the school district, as did some in the links I posted and got answers. I didn't assume their motives because I understand what assume means.
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Old 07-31-18, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I guess I would need those filters to understand you, too, because you seem opposed to the concept of LCF (or car lite) and yet you participate here, seemingly to invalidate some people's ideals.
Have you drunk the TP Critical Thinking Koolaid and chosen to repeat his shibboleths, as in equating TP BS with the "concept of LCF"?
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Old 07-31-18, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Have you drunk the TP Critical Thinking Koolaid and chosen to repeat his shibboleths, as in equating TP BS with the "concept of LCF"?
Sorry I annoyed you. I don't think I've drunk any koolaid, and I try to buy any BS. I do like the idea that we should drive less than we do as a society, and I'm enjoying the fact that I don't drive on weekdays. Is that BS? What do you think?
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Old 07-31-18, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
1. my contribution is to use my intellect to make and deploy reasons about why and how LCF is better than car culture. This is not doing. asking they people doing what you object to is doing.
People are responsible for doing things for themselves. LCF is doing more for yourself, especially if you maintain your own bike. This is part of why it's good for children to use a bike for transportation and learn to maintain and take responsibility for it when they're young. It's better than raising them to be dependent on others doing everything for them.

2. ignorance somewhat excuses it, Accusing people you have not talked to of being ignorant is the spreading of self centered fertilizer.
You are too fixated on adjectives as insults. I was ignorant when I was young that I could ride a bike five or 10 miles across town to go someplace. It was simply not something I realized was possible. I thought you had to drive such distances and biking was only possible for a couple miles, at most. That was ignorance. It's not an insult to recognize it for what it is.


3. You can accuse me of not being enough of a 'doer,' but I am square with my conscience and doing what I can best do to pursue what I understand to be good. If that's all you're doing, then what more could anyone expect of you? Until you have looked at the object of your concern up close I simply cannot see anyone being satisfied with their self as doing their best. Until you have addressed the reasoning of why someone is doing what they are doing you are shooting in the dark. The very first time I heard this walking and cycling issue at our schools I went to the school district, as did some in the links I posted and got answers. I didn't assume their motives because I understand what assume means.
I've been to plenty of public meetings. People show up to show their faces and the information exchange is inferior to online discussion where you can read word for word what someone writes and think about it. In public meetings, people have their say and it's a lot more vague and subjective, with many distractions and limitations.
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Old 07-31-18, 09:01 PM
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Old 07-31-18, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
True, but on the other hand this thread could generate enough material for a dedicated single-author volume, all on its own, of the next edition of
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Old 07-31-18, 10:25 PM
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Ok, Mea Culpa.

I am done.
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Old 08-02-18, 06:23 AM
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Ok, so back to the thread topic, what causes the number of kids who bike to school to go up and down over time. E.g. are certain families intergenerational maintainers of bike-to-school culture and others just don't feel that's their culture, or would more people like their kids to learn and experience that independence of transportation biking, but there are deterrents?
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Old 08-02-18, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Ok, so back to the thread topic, what causes the number of kids who bike to school to go up and down over time. E.g. are certain families intergenerational maintainers of bike-to-school culture and others just don't feel that's their culture, or would more people like their kids to learn and experience that independence of transportation biking, but there are deterrents?
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Old 08-06-18, 03:16 PM
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Timing is a big reason for my family. Just can't work the logistics to cycle to school no earlier than 7:30a and then to work by 8a. It is challenging enough in a car.
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Old 08-09-18, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
Timing is a big reason for my family. Just can't work the logistics to cycle to school no earlier than 7:30a and then to work by 8a. It is challenging enough in a car.
That might be true when the kids need to be accompanied, but do you see a possibility they would bike their on their own in a few years?
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Old 08-09-18, 07:39 PM
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Of course. My son's top choice for public school next year is 1mi from our home. It crosses one high traffic 7 lane road, but the road there is otherwise two lane & quiet except for school drop off traffic. He will definitely cycle there.
But if he doesn't get top choice it will be too far and busy for him to ride alone and no bus service. That would mean I would have to drive him there AND stop my 14 years of daily cycle commuting to work. Lottery but the odds are good.
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Old 08-09-18, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
Of course. My son's top choice for public school next year is 1mi from our home. It crosses one high traffic 7 lane road, but the road there is otherwise two lane & quiet except for school drop off traffic. He will definitely cycle there.
But if he doesn't get top choice it will be too far and busy for him to ride alone and no bus service. That would mean I would have to drive him there AND stop my 14 years of daily cycle commuting to work. Lottery but the odds are good.
it's a very strange society that would make a kid go to a farther school if he wants to go to a closer one.
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Old 08-09-18, 07:48 PM
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All you need to do is be those parents who are first in line to get good odds.

Yeah, it sucks - missing work, standing in the hot sun, etc. At least I have privilege.
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Old 08-10-18, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
In any case, I think the discussion is somewhat academic today. At least from what I see, there are relatively few kids today who want to ride bikes. And relatively few parents who want their kids to ride to school. I don't think prohibition by the powers that be is a major factor. We would have ridden bikes to school if we could because we rode everywhere. Maybe in part because our parents weren't about to drive us everywhere and we wanted to be anywhere but in the house. Kids today seem happy to be more housebound while interacting with the rest of the world electronically. I don't know if that's going to change any time soon.
I had a discussion with a teacher about this recently, and one thing that was brought up is that - in the case of immigrant families from certain parts of the world - many kids simply never learned to ride a bike. Actually, I wonder if this is starting to becoming more prevalent here in North America - kids not learning to ride bikes in the first place.

I totally understand the mindset of fear that many parents have (I myself was rather reticent about riding on certain when I recently started cycling again, and I should know better!) but I think if parents could be persuaded to ride the route themselves they would quickly find that it is not nearly so scary/dangerous as it seems from the seat of their car and then they might be less reluctant to let their kids ride.
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Old 08-10-18, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Lunch-a-lot View Post
I had a discussion with a teacher about this recently, and one thing that was brought up is that - in the case of immigrant families from certain parts of the world - many kids simply never learned to ride a bike. Actually, I wonder if this is starting to becoming more prevalent here in North America - kids not learning to ride bikes in the first place.

I totally understand the mindset of fear that many parents have (I myself was rather reticent about riding on certain when I recently started cycling again, and I should know better!) but I think if parents could be persuaded to ride the route themselves they would quickly find that it is not nearly so scary/dangerous as it seems from the seat of their car and then they might be less reluctant to let their kids ride.
It's true. When you are paying attention to traffic and watching out while crossing driveways, etc. things are under control. It's when you/kids are rushing and distracted that it gets riskier. You have to get your kids out of the house early so they won't be rushed, and tell them if they are late not to worry about it. Better to deal with tardies than to be rushing and get hurt.
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