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High Speed Rail: what do other know that we don't?

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High Speed Rail: what do other know that we don't?

Old 05-19-19, 05:25 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
We've had self-driving cars and buses for a couple years now.
Name an actual self driving car model available to the public; better yet name the actual electric self driving car model available to the public. I won't even both to ask you to describe the so-called "intelligent cooperative smart car model or road system you are dreaming about.
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Old 05-19-19, 05:27 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Name an actual self driving car model available to the public
I don't think there are any yet.
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Old 05-19-19, 05:31 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
If we play the game out who will be paying for all of the HSR projects? A politician that raises taxes to support something people arenít willing to pay for will be in office for one term. Isnít the plan to power the HSR with electricity?

We we have been told in California that the electric grid is stressed and are to to expect brown out every summer. Renewable energy isnít up to the task yet and it may be years before it is , if ever. More nuclear is a possible solution but you run into the same NIMBY resistance to that. So electricity is generated by petrochemical power plants. Would we then be expected to build more of these plants?

Would we we need to increase taxes for both the HSR projects and build more power plants?

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

At least with EVs the customer buys the rolling stock. The customer can decide on an econobox or a luxury car. If the customer still has the option on flying would that not cut into HSR profits?
Putting 500 people in 10 train cars in a line so only the lead car/locomotive has to punch through the air and the rest follow through the 'tunnel' without the rolling resistance of tires on pavement is MUCH more energy efficient than lots of EVs driving separately down a highway with tires and no rails.

Nevertheless, EVs do get better mpg-equivalence than combustion-motorized cars, so there is a little improvement there, but still pales in comparison to buses, which are not as efficient driving separately than they would be drafting each other in close sequence as 'bus-trains,' which in turn are not as efficient as train-cars on rails.

Also, starting and stopping cause inefficiency, though regenerative braking recoups some of that energy, the way slowing down by coasting uphill allows you to recoup your energy for free by coasting down the other side of the hill.
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Old 05-19-19, 05:34 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
No I came here to learn how people deal with being car free only to find most are car free like people that give up smoking only to bum cigarettes from others.
No, son, it was her drinking that made me give up the girlfriend that bummed the cigarettes. That and she got me swerving into a ditch once.
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Old 05-19-19, 05:34 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Name an actual self driving car model available to the public; better yet name the actual electric self driving car model available to the public. I won't even both to ask you to describe the so-called "intelligent cooperative smart car model or road system you are dreaming about.
Name a human-driven car that isn't prone to dangerous collisions. Name a sprawling city where everyone drives that doesn't waste land and cause deforestation, while making it difficult to LCF.

How is it that you can be so critical of 'dreaming' without ever being critical of the automotive dream in light of how unsustainable it has proven itself?
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Old 05-19-19, 05:37 PM
  #106  
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Oh come on now, we're back to the stupid Trolley Dilemma.

Except that Mr. Rogers would pick Trolley up off the tracks before it hurt anyone.

Is this going to devolve without Alan and Bob 2?
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Old 05-19-19, 05:42 PM
  #107  
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Your server hates me today, not just your god like Bob Ross...photo editor is watching golf?
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Old 05-19-19, 06:28 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
No, son, it was her drinking that made me give up the girlfriend that bummed the cigarettes. That and she got me swerving into a ditch once.
Yes you have a point. But more than likely she also claimed to be car free while taking Uber, Lyft, ZIP car, rental cars and a friends car. That is just what they do. You even have people pulling for self driving cars so they can be resupplied while wondering a wilderness trail. They too would bum a ride.

Glad and you got rid of her before she infected you? ;>)
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Old 05-19-19, 06:43 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Yes you have a point. But more than likely she also claimed to be car free while taking Uber, Lyft, ZIP car, rental cars and a friends car. That is just what they do. You even have people pulling for self driving cars so they can be resupplied while wondering a wilderness trail. They too would bum a ride.

Glad and you got rid of her before she infected you? ;>)
There was no such thing as Uber in the 90s. We barely had a new Walmart. That one is also dead.
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Old 05-19-19, 07:08 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
There was no such thing as Uber in the 90s. We barely had a new Walmart. That one is also dead.
My goodness you are dangerous to be around.
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Old 05-24-19, 09:33 AM
  #111  
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and the original topic was??
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Old 05-24-19, 01:01 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by rossiny View Post
and the original topic was??
The same "topic" as almost every other thread on this list for the past several years - a troll or a rhetorical device for initiating P&R proselytizing, usually involving OT rants based on daydreams and conspiracy theories.
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Old 05-24-19, 01:54 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by rossiny View Post
and the original topic was??
You can easily read the OP. It's the first post in the first page of the thread.

The issue is why other governments create effective (high speed) rail transportation networks but not US government(s).
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Old 05-24-19, 03:20 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
The same "topic" as almost every other thread on this list for the past several years - a troll or a rhetorical device for initiating P&R proselytizing, usually involving OT rants based on daydreams and conspiracy theories.
You forget movie plots.
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Old 09-24-19, 12:30 PM
  #115  
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I don't know about the USA but here in the region of Canada I live in they are having quite the trouble getting a route for HSR into one small city. No one living in that city want any of the proposed routes built.

Also, it seems to me that in Canada, especially Northern Ontario, that rial-travel in general is being cut way back. I used to be able to take an Ontario Northland train from Toronto to Swastika, Ontario (near Kirkland Lake) and did so quite often to get to an area I ride back to Toronto from. Now it's a bus route. On top of that Highway 11 in the south of Ontario Canada is now closed to bicyclists.

Cars and buses rule! Seems to be the mantra of traffic infrastructure planners hereabouts.

The one LRT line I saw built in this area actually INCREASES the travel time from one city's downtown core to another city downtown and that's becasue the Express Bus now ends its run at a mall where you have to transfer to the LRT and that transfer time can be fairly long. I can ride my bicycle faster between those two downtowns than I can get there by transit with the Express Bus and the LRT.

Cheers
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Old 09-25-19, 01:14 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I don't know about the USA but here in the region of Canada I live in they are having quite the trouble getting a route for HSR into one small city. No one living in that city want any of the proposed routes built.

Also, it seems to me that in Canada, especially Northern Ontario, that rial-travel in general is being cut way back. I used to be able to take an Ontario Northland train from Toronto to Swastika, Ontario (near Kirkland Lake) and did so quite often to get to an area I ride back to Toronto from. Now it's a bus route. On top of that Highway 11 in the south of Ontario Canada is now closed to bicyclists.

Cars and buses rule! Seems to be the mantra of traffic infrastructure planners hereabouts.

The one LRT line I saw built in this area actually INCREASES the travel time from one city's downtown core to another city downtown and that's becasue the Express Bus now ends its run at a mall where you have to transfer to the LRT and that transfer time can be fairly long. I can ride my bicycle faster between those two downtowns than I can get there by transit with the Express Bus and the LRT.

Cheers
For everybody's interest, the town of Swastika was named in 1908. In WW-II, the Canadian Government changed the name of Berlin, Ontario to Kitchener, as it still is today, and changed Swastika to "Winston". The town residents of Swastika tore down the Winston signs, and put up the original name and also a sign that said "To Hell with Hitler - we came up with our name first".
Which part of Hwy 11 is barred for bikes? At least if it is south of Barrie there are lots of alternate routes. In Northern Ontario, you don't have a lot of choice.

Oops, never mind. It used to be that Yonge St south of Barrie was also 11 and I guess now it only starts at the junction with 400 and goes north. How would you bike north from Barrie now?

Last edited by cooker; 09-25-19 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 09-25-19, 01:58 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
For everybody's interest, the town of Swastika was named in 1908. In WW-II, the Canadian Government changed the name of Berlin, Ontario to Kitchener, as it still is today, and changed Swastika to "Winston". The town residents of Swastika tore down the Winston signs, and put up the original name and also a sign that said "To Hell with Hitler - we came up with our name first".
Which part of Hwy 11 is barred for bikes? At least if it is south of Barrie there are lots of alternate routes. In Northern Ontario, you don't have a lot of choice.

Oops, never mind. It used to be that Yonge St south of Barrie was also 11 and I guess now it only starts at the junction with 400 and goes north. How would you bike north from Barrie now?
IIRC, you can still bicycle on Hwy.11 once you get through Barrie.

Cheers
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Old 09-25-19, 02:13 PM
  #118  
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I do agree it is quite disappointing that the Ontario Northland Rail service was cut back, and another service - the Algoma Central Line from Sault Ste Marie to Hearst was also shut down 4-5 years ago, except for the southernmost tourist train part. The VIA Rail (Canada's Amtrak) continental service from Toronto to Vancouver only runs each way 3 days a week. Since I do regular consulting tours in Northern Ontario I would have loved to use these lines for at least some of my travel. I managed to use the continental train once in 22 years - flying to a conference in Winnipeg and then backtracking by train to a gig in Sioux Lookout, then back to Wpg and flying back to Toronto. It was way cheaper than flying the whole way, since Sioux Lookout-Toronto requires both a long and short hop on two different airlines. The train ride itself was idyllic. However now the VIA schedule has most of the major Ontario stops occurring in the middle of the night - not great for business trips!
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Old 11-21-19, 01:11 PM
  #119  
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Old 11-21-19, 04:39 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
USA prefers military spending not civilian infrastructure.. as the budget demonstrates...
+1. Check out our military budget vs. those of France, China, Japan. Oh, and if you put that together with the video about what happened to trains after WW2 . . . .
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Old 11-21-19, 11:35 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Name a human-driven car that isn't prone to dangerous collisions. Name a sprawling city where everyone drives that doesn't waste land and cause deforestation, while making it difficult to LCF.

How is it that you can be so critical of 'dreaming' without ever being critical of the automotive dream in light of how unsustainable it has proven itself?
Good point , I think our whole economy is unsustainable. Just look at the mass production model we use to keep our jobs. If the production goes down ever so slightly , people loose their jobs. With cars it is downright scarey how many cars have to be sold, not to mention road building etc...
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Old 11-22-19, 03:31 AM
  #122  
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This is the problem with merica. Our politicians spend all their energy making laws telling us what we can't do, when their main job should be to watch out for the people. Single family cars have their place, but going to work and back everyday should be sustained by a rapid transit system.

I voted for Obama the first time (but not the second time) because he ran on a promise of change. He did step up to the plate and at least try to do something to improve the healthcare system. Regardless of how people feel about the outcome, that was more than all his predecessors and those that came after put together have done. He also opened up grants for entrepreneurs with plans for alternative energy.

As for HSR, he offered 3 billion to Florida (a state that was suffering the worst of the depression at the time) to start the ball rolling on a HSR system, but the stupid governor turned it down. Imagine where that system would have been by now if construction had started back then.

When OPEC held us hostage in the 70s and held back oil production, our politicians sat on their hands bewildered. President Carter made speeches and reduce the national speed limit. Now, fourth years later, we're still at the mercy of big oil.

Trump promised to spend less time on foreign affair, and focus more on building up the U.S. So far, his legacy will be building a wall like Nazi Germany. For a nation that's supposedly the leader of the world, we can't seem to get out of our own way.

Last edited by KraneXL; 11-23-19 at 02:50 AM. Reason: paragraph clarity
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Old 11-22-19, 04:53 AM
  #123  
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it will be interesting to see if this actually gets built and is actually successful. my hope/wish is that it is.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#8d6399176604

didn't even consider it being the "raider train" but it would certainly benefit from fans in the southern california region if the pricing is right.
if it does work, we could see other privatized regional hsr train lines here in the west.
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Old 11-22-19, 08:48 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
This is the problem with merica. Our politicians spend all their energy making laws telling us what we can't do, when their main job should be to watch out for the people. Single family cars have their place, but going to work and back everyday should be sustained by a rapid transit system.

I voted for Obama the first time (but not the second time) because he ran on a promise of change. He did step up to the plate and at least try to do something to improve the healthcare system. Regardless of how people feel about the outcome, that was more than all his predecessors and those that came after put together have done. He also opened up grants for entrepreneurs with plans for alternative energy.

He also offered 3 billion to Florida (a state that was suffering the worst of the depression at the time) to start the ball rolling on a HSR, but the stupid governor turned it down. Imagine where that system would have been by now if construction had started back then.

When OPEC held us hostage in the 70s and held back oil production, our politicians sat on their hands bewildered. Other than make speeches and reduce the national speed limit, fourth years later, we're still at their mercy.

Trump promised to spend less time on foreign affair, and focus more no building up the U.S. So far, his legacy will be building a wall like Nazi Germany. For a nation that's supposedly the leader of the world, we can't seem to get out of our own way.
I think you about summed it up.
I could not afford health insurance but got penalized on my income tax however. Still got some medical bills from a kidney stone , no insurance at the time. I have it now thru market place , so yes he addressed that..at least , no other president did.
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Old 11-24-19, 11:37 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by rossiny View Post
I think you about summed it up.
I could not afford health insurance but got penalized on my income tax however. Still got some medical bills from a kidney stone , no insurance at the time. I have it now thru market place , so yes he addressed that..at least , no other president did.
That program gave insurance to those that didn't have it before, and took away insurance from those that had it previously due to drastic price increases that hurt those that are just above subsidy level.

My family lost health insurance in 2016 and we haven't been able to afford it since. Perhaps when all the kids are gone, pay their own way, and if our income stays the same then . . . sounds like maybe 2022. Maybe.

And guess what? We haven't had to pay the penalty tax ever, because the premium cost to income ratio is high enough for us to fill out the proper IRS form and mark the proper spot.

Last edited by FiftySix; 11-24-19 at 11:45 AM.
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