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Ride-sharing + driver-sharing?

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Ride-sharing + driver-sharing?

Old 06-05-19, 06:33 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
Thanks for completely misunderstanding my position.
No sir he understands it. You have just poked a hole in his balloon.

I will speculate again that someone is looking for a free car that they donít own so they can keep their LCF badge.

No matter how extreme an idea is if you donít agree you are part of the conspiracy. The idea is very much like dockless bikes and dockless scooters. The idea may be bleeding money but if we just believe hard enough like tinker bell the idea will come alive. I M H O
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Old 06-05-19, 07:25 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
It would seem that Pedex knows something about the subject.

Per this article, the next step will be self driving cars, not car"share" with a human driver.

https://apnews.com/9e2ecdd44fde4dce96add343ec02decf
With my driving and riding a bike for a living resume if I don't know all about the delivery business at this point something is wrong. I have driven briefly for Uber, not for $$ but to see what the competition is doing. Tis wise to understand your enemies even though we don't compete directly.

There are so many misconceptions about how ride hailing apps and companies like Uber actually work it boggles my mind. I guess not many ever see the inner workings and know enough to understand what they are looking at when they do.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:37 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
With my driving and riding a bike for a living resume if I don't know all about the delivery business at this point something is wrong. I have driven briefly for Uber, not for $$ but to see what the competition is doing. Tis wise to understand your enemies even though we don't compete directly.

There are so many misconceptions about how ride hailing apps and companies like Uber actually work it boggles my mind. I guess not many ever see the inner workings and know enough to understand what they are looking at when they do.
I did have a question. Today I saw a car with both an Uber and a Lyft sticker on it. It seems like neither company cares?
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Old 06-05-19, 09:49 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You can park your car wherever you want, but the app might not necessarily request it. If you wanted the app to lend it out to another driver, then you would want to park it somewhere that is more likely to happen.
But where that is more likely to happen is not where I want to be. If I've got to park my car in a busier location and then use some other method of transportation to get where I want to go ... I might as well just take the bus.



Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Let's assume that if you are going places with lots of traffic flow, there will be vehicles passing regularly that are on your ride/drive-share network.
But we can't assume that. In fact, in many cases, cars will be going out to remote suburbs which aren't well serviced by public transportation. If you're going places with lots of traffic flow, chances are those places are served by public transportation.



Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You always claim to be a positive person, yet you look for the most negative scenarios to undermine ideas.
I'm simply analysing this to determine if it would be convenient.

So far ... no.

Convoluted ... but not convenient.


Suggestions:

See this thread: Uber ... you might want to weigh in!

See this article entitled: Uber lost another $1B last quarter
https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/30/uber-earnings/


Get a job with a taxi company for a while.
Get a job with a courier service for a while.
Get a job with Uber or similar for a while.

Then you might be qualified to discuss these ideas.


Personally, I have some experience with courier/delivery services and wouldn't have to ask questions like the following one because I know how it works within a courier/delivery service and from pedex's posts, it is quite similar in his line of work too.

Originally Posted by tandempower
What prevents multiple drivers from responding to the same call, then?

Last edited by Machka; 06-05-19 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 06-06-19, 12:25 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
I did have a question. Today I saw a car with both an Uber and a Lyft sticker on it. It seems like neither company cares?
I don't know what their official stance is on that but yes it is quite common. If you are doing it for a living full time you pretty much have to. Both companies keep dropping their rates slowly so you want to grab as many good runs as you can. You have to stay loaded and moving.
The contract and insurance allow it I do know that.

The drivers often work together too, they will go to the airport right before a flight lands then kill their apps forcing surge pricing for example.

Last edited by pedex; 06-06-19 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 06-06-19, 12:40 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
I don't know what their official stance is on that but yes it is quite common. If you are doing it for a living full time you pretty much have to. Both companies keep dropping their rates slowly so you want to grab as many good runs as you can. You have to stay loaded and moving.
The contract and insurance allow it I do know that.

The drivers often work together too, they will go to the airport right before a flight lands then kill their apps forcing surge pricing for example.
We have both in my area but believe it or not I see more Uber and Lyft drivers, at least their cars, when I get one of my Amazon orders delivered by the same day service. A car cruises by my porch and hardly slows down as someone gets out and runs to my front door. I hear they pay more than minimum wage as well.
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Old 06-06-19, 01:02 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
We have both in my area but believe it or not I see more Uber and Lyft drivers, at least their cars, when I get one of my Amazon orders delivered by the same day service. A car cruises by my porch and hardly slows down as someone gets out and runs to my front door. I hear they pay more than minimum wage as well.
Ya Uber is the dominant power right now. AMAZON is still rolling out their delivery service and using anybody they can in the interim. Their van drivers get like $17 to $18 per hour locally. That's about what FedEx and UPS pay.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:34 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
But where that is more likely to happen is not where I want to be. If I've got to park my car in a busier location and then use some other method of transportation to get where I want to go ... I might as well just take the bus.
Sure, unless you had some reason to want your car later. Or unless you wanted to put your car into circulation for ride/drive sharing for the day in order to collect pay for lending/investing it in the system.

But we can't assume that. In fact, in many cases, cars will be going out to remote suburbs which aren't well serviced by public transportation. If you're going places with lots of traffic flow, chances are those places are served by public transportation.
In many cases, they're not; or the bus only comes every half hour or once an hour. In some cases, you might be going somewhere that is a mile or more from a bus stop, so you might as well catch a ride/drive-share rather than take the time to walk from the bus stop to your destination.

I'm simply analysing this to determine if it would be convenient.

So far ... no.

Convoluted ... but not convenient.
It would not be as convenient as driving your own personal vehicle, but it would cost less. It would, however, be more convenient than taking transit in many instances, but it would cost a bit more.

Get a job with a taxi company for a while.
Get a job with a courier service for a while.
Get a job with Uber or similar for a while.

Then you might be qualified to discuss these ideas.
Lol, I am qualified to discuss many things and I've never worried about whether someone else is qualified when they have something to say. I simply read what they think and decide for myself whether it is relevant or not, and if I think I can give them some insight beyond what they have, I do. What I don't do is sit in judgement of whether they are qualified or not.

Personally, I have some experience with courier/delivery services and wouldn't have to ask questions like the following one because I know how it works within a courier/delivery service and from pedex's posts, it is quite similar in his line of work too.
There's no such thing as "how it works," at a general level. A specific company or platform might have a system that works in a certain way, but others can work differently, and there's nothing stopping anyone from changing any system or platform except the opinions and interests of the various people involved. Some people are open to change and other resist it.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:51 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Sure, unless you had some reason to want your car later. Or unless you wanted to put your car into circulation for ride/drive sharing for the day in order to collect pay for lending/investing it in the system.


In many cases, they're not; or the bus only comes every half hour or once an hour. In some cases, you might be going somewhere that is a mile or more from a bus stop, so you might as well catch a ride/drive-share rather than take the time to walk from the bus stop to your destination.


It would not be as convenient as driving your own personal vehicle, but it would cost less. It would, however, be more convenient than taking transit in many instances, but it would cost a bit more.


Lol, I am qualified to discuss many things and I've never worried about whether someone else is qualified when they have something to say. I simply read what they think and decide for myself whether it is relevant or not, and if I think I can give them some insight beyond what they have, I do. What I don't do is sit in judgement of whether they are qualified or not.


There's no such thing as "how it works," at a general level. A specific company or platform might have a system that works in a certain way, but others can work differently, and there's nothing stopping anyone from changing any system or platform except the opinions and interests of the various people involved. Some people are open to change and other resist it.

If you think you know best ... start this idea you're talking about.


Incidentally ...

"It would not be as convenient as driving your own personal vehicle, but it would cost less." ... I agree with the first part of that. It certainly wouldn't be as convenient as driving my own personal vehicle. But would it cost less?

Who would pay the much higher commercial insurance? Me.
Who would fill it up? Probably me.
Who would have to get it serviced much more frequently than I do with my own personal vehicle? Me.

As I explained earlier, I'd have to be charging at least Uber prices if not taxi prices to cover it all.

So it's an inconvenient method of transportation AND costs the same as more convenient options.


But you like the idea ... so you give it a go and let us know how it goes.


Meanwhile ... how about talking about some options that don't involve cars???

Last edited by Machka; 06-06-19 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 06-06-19, 08:45 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
Ya Uber is the dominant power right now. AMAZON is still rolling out their delivery service and using anybody they can in the interim. Their van drivers get like $17 to $18 per hour locally. That's about what FedEx and UPS pay.
Who owns/pays for the delivery vehicle, Amazon or the driver? Is that $17 to $18 per hour, minus the expense of owning and operating a vehicle?

Are the delivery drivers guaranteed a certain number of paid hours per week? I assume there are no health insurance or retirement benefits offered to these pseudo employee delivery drivers for Amazon, Uber or the rest of their ilk.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:03 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Who owns/pays for the delivery vehicle, Amazon or the driver? Is that $17 to $18 per hour, minus the expense of owning and operating a vehicle?

Are the delivery drivers guaranteed a certain number of paid hours per week? I assume there are no health insurance or retirement benefits offered to these pseudo employee delivery drivers for Amazon, Uber or the rest of their ilk.
Amazon owns the van unless you are on the flex plan which pays per block of deliveries which take about 4 hrs each @$72 per block.

Don't know about the rest but Amazon is struggling to keep up and there is no shortage of work.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:52 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Who would pay the much higher commercial insurance? Me.
Who would fill it up? Probably me.
Who would have to get it serviced much more frequently than I do with my own personal vehicle? Me.
People are using their cars to make extra money using ride-sharing already. The problem with it is they have to drive. What I am suggesting is that the platform give them the option of allowing their car to continue to be used when they aren't in it. It sounds like you're saying there's no way that this could be better than leaving your car parked when you're not driving it, but I can't believe that.

As I explained earlier, I'd have to be charging at least Uber prices if not taxi prices to cover it all.
Maybe because your insurance and other costs are high. Maybe you just live in an area with a high cost of living overall.

Meanwhile ... how about talking about some options that don't involve cars???
I'd like to see traffic overall start consolidating down to lower overall levels of vehicles so that more corridors can be re-forested as nice, tree-shaded pedestrian/bike paths.

Freeing these corridors by reducing overall traffic on the roads is the key to refurbishing them as linear parks.

What's been done with rails-to-trails projects could also be done as lanes-to-trails in corridors that have traditionally hosted automotive traffic.
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Old 06-06-19, 10:05 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
Amazon owns the van unless you are on the flex plan which pays per block of deliveries which take about 4 hrs each @$72 per block.

Don't know about the rest but Amazon is struggling to keep up and there is no shortage of work.
Thanks for some real world info on the subject; quite unusual for this list but far more relevant/interesting than the posts allegedly related to living car free based on mental doodling/"critical thinking" of the if pigs could fly variety.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:17 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Maybe because your insurance and other costs are high. Maybe you just live in an area with a high cost of living overall.
Have you looked into the costs in your area?
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Old 06-06-19, 08:05 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
People are using their cars to make extra money using ride-sharing already. The problem with it is they have to drive. What I am suggesting is that the platform give them the option of allowing their car to continue to be used when they aren't in it. It sounds like you're saying there's no way that this could be better than leaving your car parked when you're not driving it, but I can't believe that.


Group insurance rates are higher, maintenance is higher, life expectancy of vehicle lower, and finally for the umpteenth time on demand car leasing has been around for quite awhile. What you are proposing changes very little and adds significant amounts of complexity.

Furthermore if less traffic and cheaper transportation is the goal why bother with private privilege modes of transportation and just use public modes instead?

Last edited by pedex; 06-06-19 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:57 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
Group insurance rates are higher, maintenance is higher, life expectancy of vehicle lower, and finally for the umpteenth time on demand car leasing has been around for quite awhile. What you are proposing changes very little and adds significant amounts of complexity.

Furthermore if less traffic and cheaper transportation is the goal why bother with private privilege modes of transportation and just use public modes instead?

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Old 06-07-19, 07:18 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
Group insurance rates are higher, maintenance is higher, life expectancy of vehicle lower, and finally for the umpteenth time on demand car leasing has been around for quite awhile. What you are proposing changes very little and adds significant amounts of complexity.
I'd like to see it done in practice for a while, and then look at what the vehicle-to-user ratios are as a result. They may burn through vehicles quicker as a result of driving them more and leaving them parked less, but if it means less cars on the roads and parking lots overall, it would be a good thing. Also, if people learn to walk a little more and rely on rides a bit less, that would make the system more efficient in terms of users-per-vehicle-mile.

Overall in terms of cost, I think it works out to the benefit of everyone, because if the cars are driving more for more users, then each user is getting more value-per-dollar spent on vehicles and maintenance. Ultimately, it would be good to see larger vehicles like vans, which can carry more passengers than a car, serving more passengers at a time, to achieve even greater efficiency.

Furthermore if less traffic and cheaper transportation is the goal why bother with private privilege modes of transportation and just use public modes instead?
Because public transit systems are inadequate and underutilized in many areas. Car ownership and driving are dominant modes in such areas, and as a result sprawl and massive infrastructure maintenance costs have become the norm. People love to make money on all this car business and infrastructure contracts/jobs, but it's not good environmentally, and driving everywhere without being able to choose other modes isn't a healthy way of life. It puts everyone under pressure to drive and keep up with the rat race in order to keep up with higher cost of living due to all the economic expenses of the area. It's just not humane, either economically or in terms of geography and being able to get around with stuffing your body in a machine and not being able to walk or bike anywhere efficiently.

Such areas can't and won't change immediately from ride/car-sharing, but if traffic begin to consolidate at people share less vehicles among more people, land-development and infrastructure should gradually cater the new norms. You should see more bike/pedestrian paths replacing lanes in travel corridors. You should also see less parking lots, with more parks and outdoor rest/recreation areas instead. Overall, sprawling municipalities should become more human-oriented as a result of less vehicles on the roads.
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Old 06-07-19, 08:16 AM
  #118  
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You keep repeating yourself, stop.

Less cars on the road, no it doesn't. It won't change the load factor utilization of the cars and thus the amount on the road. It's a zero sum result.

We can start there.
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Old 06-07-19, 03:34 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
You keep repeating yourself, stop.

Less cars on the road, no it doesn't. It won't change the load factor utilization of the cars and thus the amount on the road. It's a zero sum result.

We can start there.
You've already said you're biased against ride-sharing and the potential to reduce the number of cars on the roads.

Now you're just saying "no it doesn't," without explaining why you think that.

You remind of some other posters that used to argue like this in P&R before I quit that sub-forum. You're probably one of them with a new username.

If you want to explain your POV about why you think what you think, go ahead, but don't post assertions and then wait for me to ask you for your reasons. Your reasoning should be posted at the same time you make your statement. Otherwise, you're just dragging out what you have to say through multiple posts.
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Old 06-07-19, 04:15 PM
  #120  
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A simple way to think about ride/drive-share is as follows:

Take the price per hour of a car-share, e.g. $10/hour.

Now take the pay rate per hour for driving for a ride-share platform: e.g. $18/hour

The difference is $8/hour, so let's say that is how much you can expect if you ride/drive for an hour of ride/drive sharing on your way somewhere.

Now let's say you're lending your car into the system when you're not driving/riding in it: now you make $18/hour minus whatever the other driver gets paid, i.e. $8/hour.

Now let's say you just want a ride but you don't want to drive: you pay regular ride-share rates.

Now let's say you ride halfway with another driver, who gets out and you have to take over driving for the 2nd half of your ride: you would pay for the ride for the first half and then you would make $8/hour as a ride/driver for the 2nd half, assuming someone else was riding. Otherwise, you'd also have to pay as the rider. So in that case, the $8/hour would come as a discount from off your ride-share fee.

Simple, right?

Last edited by tandempower; 06-07-19 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 06-07-19, 06:03 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
A simple way to think about ride/drive-share is as follows:

Take the price per hour of a car-share, e.g. $10/hour.

Now take the pay rate per hour for driving for a ride-share platform: e.g. $18/hour

The difference is $8/hour, so let's say that is how much you can expect if you ride/drive for an hour of ride/drive sharing on your way somewhere.

Now let's say you're lending your car into the system when you're not driving/riding in it: now you make $18/hour minus whatever the other driver gets paid, i.e. $8/hour.

Now let's say you just want a ride but you don't want to drive: you pay regular ride-share rates.

Now let's say you ride halfway with another driver, who gets out and you have to take over driving for the 2nd half of your ride: you would pay for the ride for the first half and then you would make $8/hour as a ride/driver for the 2nd half, assuming someone else was riding. Otherwise, you'd also have to pay as the rider. So in that case, the $8/hour would come as a discount from off your ride-share fee.

Simple, right?
No it fails assuming the driver using MY car is going to get a discount on the lease.

Now you claim you want cheaper transportation AND car owners to subsidize it and The "app" is somehow going to create arbitrage where there isn't any. Again it fails. Now how does cheaper transportation encourage less cars on the road without altering the per trip load utilization of the vehicles? It can't. That's just basic economics and straight logic.
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Old 06-07-19, 06:44 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
No it fails assuming the driver using MY car is going to get a discount on the lease.

Now you claim you want cheaper transportation AND car owners to subsidize it and The "app" is somehow going to create arbitrage where there isn't any. Again it fails. Now how does cheaper transportation encourage less cars on the road without altering the per trip load utilization of the vehicles? It can't. That's just basic economics and straight logic.
Looking at the cost estimate he made, and I believe there are some additions where some subtractions should be. If you rent a car for $10.00 an hour and pay someone to drive it $18.00 and hour you have a negative profit of $8.00 an hour. Unless you charge more than $18.00 an hour. That is not a money making deal. A quick check of the competition would indicate you need to lower the prices even more. https://www.zipcar.com/

as far as insurance goes anyone that has ever tried to add family members to car insurance knows anyone under 25 drives the rate through the roof.

If it is a business you need a license and just maybe high medical coverage on the medical portion of the car policy.

The conspiracy rears its its ugly head. Just imagine submitting this business plan to a bank?
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Old 06-07-19, 07:00 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Looking at the cost estimate he made, and I believe there are some additions where some subtractions should be. If you rent a car for $10.00 an hour and pay someone to drive it $18.00 and hour you have a negative profit of $8.00 an hour. Unless you charge more than $18.00 an hour. That is not a money making deal. A quick check of the competition would indicate you need to lower the prices even more. https://www.zipcar.com/

as far as insurance goes anyone that has ever tried to add family members to car insurance knows anyone under 25 drives the rate through the roof.

If it is a business you need a license and just maybe high medical coverage on the medical portion of the car policy.

The conspiracy rears its its ugly head. Just imagine submitting this business plan to a bank?
yup

How you deal with the "ridesharing" company running the "app"? I wonder how they are going to react. They have no reason at all to pay a driver that isn't a contractor to operate the car when the actual driver is out of the car. Which means now the car owner is going to have a very expensive on demand lease and insurance problem to deal with. The ridesharing company might do it for a really hefty fee though.
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Old 06-08-19, 02:06 AM
  #124  
Machka 
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Looking at the cost estimate he made, and I believe there are some additions where some subtractions should be. If you rent a car for $10.00 an hour and pay someone to drive it $18.00 and hour you have a negative profit of $8.00 an hour. Unless you charge more than $18.00 an hour. That is not a money making deal. A quick check of the competition would indicate you need to lower the prices even more. https://www.zipcar.com/

as far as insurance goes anyone that has ever tried to add family members to car insurance knows anyone under 25 drives the rate through the roof.

If it is a business you need a license and just maybe high medical coverage on the medical portion of the car policy.

The conspiracy rears its its ugly head. Just imagine submitting this business plan to a bank?
Yes!!

And around here, with the quantity of university students looking for quicker ways to get to and from the university from outlying suburbs at all hours of the day and night, you'd definitely need "under 25" insurance, and not just for one family member ... you'd need "under 25" insurance for an unlimited number of people.

And as we know, if you're under 25 when you rent a vehicle, there's an extra surcharge. I quote from the Hertz rental site:

You and any person driving the vehicle must be 21* years of age or over

*An age surcharge will apply for all drivers, including additional authorised drivers on the rental agreement, who are aged between 21-24yrs.

The surcharge is capped at 7 days for every 30 day period And depending on the vehicle the following fees apply :

Passenger Vehicles: $16.50 (per day)


However, Hertz recommends looking into Flexicar for young drivers in Melbourne.
Flexicar.com.au:

@tandempower ... you can have a look through the FAQ to find out more.
Flexicar.com.au: Faq
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Old 06-08-19, 07:16 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
No it fails assuming the driver using MY car is going to get a discount on the lease.
No one could force you to lend you car out using the platform. It would just be an option to car-owners who want to make $10/hour while they're not driving their cars.

Now you claim you want cheaper transportation AND car owners to subsidize it and The "app" is somehow going to create arbitrage where there isn't any. Again it fails. Now how does cheaper transportation encourage less cars on the road without altering the per trip load utilization of the vehicles? It can't. That's just basic economics and straight logic.
Because people are supposed to ride/drive together in the vehicles at the same time.

Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Looking at the cost estimate he made, and I believe there are some additions where some subtractions should be. If you rent a car for $10.00 an hour and pay someone to drive it $18.00 and hour you have a negative profit of $8.00 an hour. Unless you charge more than $18.00 an hour. That is not a money making deal. A quick check of the competition would indicate you need to lower the prices even more. https://www.zipcar.com/
I just did a google search for what average pay is for ride-share driving. Google said it was $18, so I looked up the average hourly cost for car-share driving, which was $10/hour. Those are just averages. You wouldn't pay someone $18/hour to drive a shared-vehicle because they have to pay vehicle costs, in this case by renting/sharing the car they're driving. If it was their personal vehicle, they'd be making the full $18, but they'd also be paying for their own car, insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. If they are sharing the vehicle they're driving, they're paying $10/hour to do that, and someone else is managing the vehicle and making the $10/hour. The $8/hour is what you're making for driving a vehicle that's not your own and it's a pretty good rate considering you are getting a ride to your destination as part of the deal.

as far as insurance goes anyone that has ever tried to add family members to car insurance knows anyone under 25 drives the rate through the roof.

If it is a business you need a license and just maybe high medical coverage on the medical portion of the car policy.

The conspiracy rears its its ugly head. Just imagine submitting this business plan to a bank?
Ride-share platforms have to be selective with both who they allow to ride and who drives. There is too much potential for sabotage, both intentional/conspiratorial and unintentional/accidental.


Originally Posted by pedex View Post
yup

How you deal with the "ridesharing" company running the "app"? I wonder how they are going to react. They have no reason at all to pay a driver that isn't a contractor to operate the car when the actual driver is out of the car. Which means now the car owner is going to have a very expensive on demand lease and insurance problem to deal with. The ridesharing company might do it for a really hefty fee though.
Everyone who uses the ride-share platform is a member. Some members are authorized to drive, while others aren't. Some vehicles are authorized to be shared, while others aren't. The criteria for what to allow and what not to are details to be worked out.


Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Yes!!

And around here, with the quantity of university students looking for quicker ways to get to and from the university from outlying suburbs at all hours of the day and night, you'd definitely need "under 25" insurance, and not just for one family member ... you'd need "under 25" insurance for an unlimited number of people.

And as we know, if you're under 25 when you rent a vehicle, there's an extra surcharge.

This may be a reason more young people would only use ride/drive-share platforms as passengers without driving authorization.

Theoretically, someone who wants driving experience could pay a premium for student driving authorization, and passengers would have to be aware of that when accepting rides with such drivers.
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