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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 03-10-22, 11:16 AM
  #51  
sloppy12
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Wouldn't it SUCK to be sideswiped at 55mph on the turnpike and have to number two in a plastic bag taped to your thigh for the rest of your life? Don't do it. And I say this as someone who had GREAT fun on a sportbike until I dropped it at over 55mph one summer afternoon in 1976.
Its the car free section. pretty sure pooping in a bag can be the result of riding a bike, scooter, walking. 25mph, 55mph and a 2 ton steel box hitting something on 2 legs or 2 wheels is usually a pretty bad day.
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Old 03-10-22, 03:12 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by timdow View Post
Oh OK.... I will take what you say below, and my 35 years of motorcycle riding experience into consideration.
The way you wrote your previous comment, it was not clear that you had considerable experience with motorcycles. It sounded like you would be doing it purely as a reaction to the gas prices. Still does. But at least you do have the miles in. That is key.
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Old 03-10-22, 04:15 PM
  #53  
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Some quick math shows my 29 MPG SUV, along with a 27 mile Round Trip commute (probably pretty common numbers), would cost an extra ~$20 more per week ($4 more per day) if gas went from $4 to $8 per gallon.

How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.

Last edited by Riveting; 03-10-22 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-10-22, 05:35 PM
  #54  
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I shed no tears for those who still chose to drive a gas guzzler after GWB caused a jump in gas prices by invading Iraq.

And after years of being warned of being addicted to fossil fuel, they are still whining about it.

It's like complaining about the high cost of cocaine to those who made it illegal.
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Old 03-11-22, 03:17 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Wouldn't it SUCK to be sideswiped at 55mph on the turnpike and have to number two in a plastic bag taped to your thigh for the rest of your life? Don't do it. And I say this as someone who had GREAT fun on a sportbike until I dropped it at over 55mph one summer afternoon in 1976.
Would it suck more to forever give up motorcycles?
Feeling the outside edge of my shoes scrape the asphalt, feeling the back tire settle in and squirm a little as I open the throttle back up.

I give it up only to come back to it.
Like a moth to a flame.
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Old 03-11-22, 09:34 AM
  #56  
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What if you could ride enough ditch the car/suv altogether (or the second car) eliminating insurance, registration, payments/depreciation, and ongoing maintenance costs? I figure my paid off, well maintained, high mile 25 MPG Camry costs me about $8.5K a year to drive and own. Take into account that my payments and deprecation were over long ago, and I carry only basic insurance. Add in payments/lease on an expensive car/SUV with sh*t*y fuel economy, and the numbers go WAY UP. If not done so, you may want to do like "Riveting" and calculate the costs (all the costs) with car ownership. You may be shocked at how high the total cost is.

The trap I was in for much of my youth was that my identity was wrapped up in my choice of transportation. I'm over that. I want money invested instead for early retirement.

Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Some quick math shows my 29 MPG SUV, along with a 27 mile Round Trip commute (probably pretty common numbers), would cost an extra ~$20 more per week ($4 more per day) if gas went from $4 to $8 per gallon.

How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
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Old 03-11-22, 09:41 AM
  #57  
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Yes, true I am considering a return to motorcycling if fuel prices continue to climb. The difference this time is that I would go for less power and weight, and more fuel economy.

Is good fuel economy a bad reason for a beginner to start riding a motorcycle?

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The way you wrote your previous comment, it was not clear that you had considerable experience with motorcycles. It sounded like you would be doing it purely as a reaction to the gas prices. Still does. But at least you do have the miles in. That is key.
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Old 03-11-22, 10:52 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Some quick math shows my 29 MPG SUV, along with a 27 mile Round Trip commute (probably pretty common numbers), would cost an extra ~$20 more per week ($4 more per day) if gas went from $4 to $8 per gallon.

How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
The only way to save significant dollars on daily transportation by using a bicycle or walking instead of a car/truck is to sell an existing vehicle already owned and used for that purpose and not replace it. That will eliminate the fixed costs (depreciation, taxes/registration, insurance) which make up the bulk of the IRS standard mileage rate as well as the widely quoted AAA driving costs of operating a motor vehicle (https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/artic...-operate-a-car).

Fuel costs, even at current and predicted prices, only make up a relatively small proportion of the cost (though it is highly visible) of owning and operating a vehicle. Using a bicycle to replace 10 or 20 miles every day of driving will save money, but don't fool yourself about saving $5,237 or anything close to it. Not if if you keep owning the vehicle and are still paying the fixed costs as well as the additional costs for any other substitute transportation (rental cars, public transportation, taxis etc) to get to destinations in all weather previously reached by your automobile.

If you are driving an old serviceable paid for vehicle you are not paying that much for depreciation, but then you won't be "saving" that cost by bicycling. The amount of miles likely to be ridden by bicycle yearly for transportation purposes to replace miles previously driven is not likely to make much difference in the maintenance or wear and tear costs of that vehicle as long as it is still owned and used by the bicyclist.
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Old 03-11-22, 10:59 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by timdow View Post
What if you could ride enough ditch the car/suv altogether (or the second car) eliminating insurance, registration, payments/depreciation, and ongoing maintenance costs? I figure my paid off, well maintained, high mile 25 MPG Camry costs me about $8.5K a year to drive and own. Take into account that my payments and deprecation were over long ago, and I carry only basic insurance. Add in payments/lease on an expensive car/SUV with sh*t*y fuel economy, and the numbers go WAY UP. If not done so, you may want to do like "Riveting" and calculate the costs (all the costs) with car ownership. You may be shocked at how high the total cost is.

The trap I was in for much of my youth was that my identity was wrapped up in my choice of transportation. I'm over that. I want money invested instead for early retirement.
Going completely car-free (and getting the $8.5k annual savings that comes with that) is almostattainable for me, (in fact several years ago I was riding/commuting to work most days of the year (except on the snowy days for safety reasons), and I only had to get an oil change in MY car once every two years). But living in an snowy/icy region (then and now) means I CAN'T safely ride to work on many days in the winter. I could use my spouse's car on those days, but then she'd be without a car to do her things. And there's no way my love of cycling can get in the way of her being able to get around. She fully supports my riding addiction, but I HAVE to maintain the bike-wife balance. Now, if I moved to a non-snowy region, like I'm toying with the idea of, that might be a different story.

Last edited by Riveting; 03-11-22 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 03-11-22, 11:02 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Going completely car-free (and getting the $8.5k annual savings that comes with that) is almostattainable for me, (in fact several years ago I was riding/commuting to work most days of the year (except on the snowy days for safety reasons), and I only had to get an oil change in MY car once every two years). But living in an snowy/icy region (then and now) means I CAN'T safely ride to work on many days in the winter. I could use my spouse's car on those days, but then she'd be without a car to do her things. And there's no way my love of cycling can get in the way of her being able to get around. She fully support my riding addiction, but I HAVE to maintain the bike-wife balance. Now, if I moved to a non-snowy region, like I'm toying with the idea of, that might be a different story.
Get a fat bike. I just ride that on snow days.
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Old 03-11-22, 11:19 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
The only way to save significant dollars on daily transportation by using a bicycle or walking instead of a car/truck is to sell an existing vehicle already owned and used for that purpose and not replace it. That will eliminate the fixed costs (depreciation, taxes/registration, insurance) which make up the bulk of the IRS standard mileage rate as well as the widely quoted AAA driving costs of operating a motor vehicle (https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/artic...-operate-a-car).

Fuel costs, even at current and predicted prices, only make up a relatively small proportion of the cost (though it is highly visible) of owning and operating a vehicle. Using a bicycle to replace 10 or 20 miles every day of driving will save money, but don't fool yourself about saving $5,237 or anything close to it. Not if if you keep owning the vehicle and are still paying the fixed costs as well as the additional costs for any other substitute transportation (rental cars, public transportation, taxis etc) to get to destinations in all weather previously reached by your automobile.

If you are driving an old serviceable paid for vehicle you are not paying that much for depreciation, but then you won't be "saving" that cost by bicycling. The amount of miles likely to be ridden by bicycle yearly for transportation purposes to replace miles previously driven is not likely to make much difference in the maintenance or wear and tear costs of that vehicle as long as it is still owned and used by the bicyclist.
Yup, after I said that the savings were based on the IRS mileage rate, I realized that the insurance and taxes were a bulk of that IRS figure, so it misrepresents the savings of riding instead of driving the car that I CONTINUE to own and pay for even if it's not being actively driven. So, if I look at the fuel savings only, at the old gas price of $4/gal riding every single day (250 days per year) saves $1,000 in gas costs annually, or $2,000 annually if gas hits $8/gal, PLUS whatever is estimated to be the actual annual cost of repairing/replacing the wearable items on the car for the 6,750 miles of driving per year that I wouldn't be doing (though I have no good way to estimate many of those: oil changes, brakes, tires, transmission, bearings, engine, bulbs, mileage depreciation, etc...) , so I'll leave it out of the formula for now, MINUS the costs of the replacing the wearable bike items such as ~3 sets of tires, 2-3 chains, brake pads, cassette, chainrings, tubes, CO2 (so approx. $450 of bike expenses if I buy the good quality stuff I always do). So the annual NET savings, at $4/gal goes down to $550, or $1,550 at $8/gal., and those savings go down by 40% if I were to choose to drive 2 days per week (on avg.), especially in the snowy months.

Last edited by Riveting; 03-11-22 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 03-11-22, 11:26 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by sloppy12 View Post
Get a fat bike. I just ride that on snow days.
It's not the bike that makes the riding unsafe for me, I have studded Schwalbe 38's that do pretty well. It's being around the cagers while THEY have to maneuver THEIR vehicles in the snow/ice, while I'm riding next to them, and while their windshield wipers are on, further obscuring their view of me. The reward just isn't worth the risk, for me personally.
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Old 03-11-22, 12:43 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
It's not the bike that makes the riding unsafe for me, I have studded Schwalbe 38's that do pretty well. It's being around the cagers while THEY have to maneuver THEIR vehicles in the snow/ice, while I'm riding next to them, and while their windshield wipers are on, further obscuring their view of me. The reward just isn't worth the risk, for me personally.
yeah I remember commuting year round. the worst was when I had to ride in the right wheel track. I wasn't popular on those days. but at least in my area, when it's that bad out most ppl don't drive in to work & just call-out sick. much better after the plows do their job
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Old 03-11-22, 01:45 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Yup, after I said that the savings were based on the IRS mileage rate, I realized that the insurance and taxes were a bulk of that IRS figure, so it misrepresents the savings of riding instead of driving the car that I CONTINUE to own and pay for even if it's not being actively driven. So, if I look at the fuel savings only, at the old gas price of $4/gal riding every single day (250 days per year) saves $1,000 in gas costs annually, or $2,000 annually if gas hits $8/gal, PLUS whatever is estimated to be the actual annual cost of repairing/replacing the wearable items on the car for the 6,750 miles of driving per year that I wouldn't be doing (though I have no good way to estimate many of those: oil changes, brakes, tires, transmission, bearings, engine, bulbs, mileage depreciation, etc...) , so I'll leave it out of the formula for now, MINUS the costs of the replacing the wearable bike items such as ~3 sets of tires, 2-3 chains, brake pads, cassette, chainrings, tubes, CO2 (so approx. $450 of bike expenses if I buy the good quality stuff I always do). So the annual NET savings, at $4/gal goes down to $550, or $1,550 at $8/gal., and those savings go down by 40% if I were to choose to drive 2 days per week (on avg.), especially in the snowy months.
I think the car commuters who can save the most dollars for each day they bike to work instead are those who currently pay exorbitant tolls and/or parking fees to commute to cities like NYC or Washington D.C. Just as long as they can use bike parking that is protected from theft.
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Old 03-11-22, 02:15 PM
  #65  
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I really wanted to live close enough to work to bike in (less than 2 miles).

I am right on the edge for me and my time constraints (14 miles).

There are multiple levels of freedom. Iím not at a place where I can be car free but Iím definitely happy when I see a coworker ride his bike to work.
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Old 03-11-22, 05:42 PM
  #66  
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https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/d...1th-desert-gas

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Old 03-12-22, 07:33 AM
  #67  
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Kept to my word and cycled all five days this week, even in a thunderstorm with BOLTS of rain coming down. Happily, we have had no snow this year (or most years). The recently acquired, Goretex Pac-lite rain jacket, (even without hood) performed like a champ! Also got to test my new Iowa Bikes pogie lites. Even while taking on a little water through the openings (it was raining that hard) my hands stayed warm and dry in 46F temps!
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Old 03-12-22, 12:45 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Kept to my word and cycled all five days this week, even in a thunderstorm with BOLTS of rain coming down. Happily, we have had no snow this year (or most years). The recently acquired, Goretex Pac-lite rain jacket, (even without hood) performed like a champ! Also got to test my new Iowa Bikes pogie lites. Even while taking on a little water through the openings (it was raining that hard) my hands stayed warm and dry in 46F temps!
46F temps is a "heat" wave in my area lol. I've been cycling every day this year (long or short), dry or wet, rainy (snow) or shine, -20 or 50 degrees and not stopping. I rode last Saturday though a hail storm on my way home from work (only to find out later there was a tornado that went through the back area in my neighborhood.) That was fun being pelted by dime-sized hail which makes buying that ski helmet for Winter riding that much more worthwhile. Love my handlebar mitts!!!
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Old 03-14-22, 09:43 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Wouldn't it SUCK to be sideswiped at 55mph on the turnpike and have to number two in a plastic bag taped to your thigh for the rest of your life? Don't do it. And I say this as someone who had GREAT fun on a sportbike until I dropped it at over 55mph one summer afternoon in 1976.
You could be riding your bicycle and get hit by a vehicle. You could be in your car and get creamed by a tractor trailer. If you're that worried about it, your only alternative is to stay at home and hope a tree doesn't fall through the roof.
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Old 03-14-22, 09:49 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by timdow View Post
I am seriously considering ditching the car and getting a very fuel efficient motorcycle. The Honda NC700X gets 60-70 MPG.
I rode a NT700 (the previous model to the NC700X) for many years, until the carpal tunnel in my left wrist finally made clutching all day impossible. I did test ride a NC700 with the DCT and almost pulled the trigger on it.
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Old 03-14-22, 09:56 AM
  #71  
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I have never rode a DCT. Even though I had several FJR's, I never rode one of those without the clutch lever, either. I would certainly like to try the DCT before purchasing.

Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
I rode a NT700 (the previous model to the NC700X) for many years, until the carpal tunnel in my left wrist finally made clutching all day impossible. I did test ride a NC700 with the DCT and almost pulled the trigger on it.
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Old 03-14-22, 11:30 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Kept to my word and cycled all five days this week, even in a thunderstorm with BOLTS of rain coming down. Happily, we have had no snow this year (or most years). The recently acquired, Goretex Pac-lite rain jacket, (even without hood) performed like a champ! Also got to test my new Iowa Bikes pogie lites. Even while taking on a little water through the openings (it was raining that hard) my hands stayed warm and dry in 46F temps!
yes, barmitts are great protection from the rain. I remember one rainstorm mine collected water, at the bottom, below my hands, so every now & then I would tip them down to drain them. toyed with the idea of adding drain holes which I could always keep taped closed when not required






but I don't ride in down pours too often
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Old 03-14-22, 12:53 PM
  #73  
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Car and Rider and War

Not looking for sympathy here. Just going to say what I'm doing at the moment.

I've been riding to work ever since I began working as a janitor in the 1970's on the tail of the gas crisis. I've been riding to work 8-11 miles each way for 35 years in my current job.

We spent a week of vacation last week driving a 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup truck we own camping every night and going mountain biking and hiking in the desert. It got 18 mpg. I tried driving slower and did, but the trucks in the desert make 75 mph easily.

Yeah the gas was an expense, but camping is cheap and 4 out of 8 nights were free. I don't feel too guilty for doing that trip. But I do think about it a lot.

I've always sort of identified with my cars in a similar way to my bikes. I avoid shuttle rides, but don't hesitate to drive to a trail head for a mountain bike ride.

My way of living is not unusual, but that doesn't justify it. Just think of the manifold changes that would result if people can't afford fuel. Employment issues and inflation, cleaner air.

This forum is definitely North American based I gather.

I know quite a few folks who are retired and living in vans, mobile homes, what have you. I'm pretty sure they're feeling the pinch from fuel price increases, but I feel sure they'll continue their nomadic ways. Most of them maintain a home address- they're pretty well off considering- and continue to ride bikes.

I've always known it was important to ride a bike to work for me because the environment and health. If the increase in fuel prices helps more people discover a bicycle lifestyle that is a great silver lining.
​​​​​​
Obviously the demand for sources of fuel continues to drive conflicts in this world. My own fuel consumption patterns directly contribute to this thirst.

My wife likes the idea of getting a camping van. I've always preferred tent camping. We also do bike tours and more and more bike packing adventures all the time! I just don't like the idea of dragging all that stuff down the road burning up tons of fuel especially with the warming climate. I sort of look forward to maybe a hybrid pick up truck/camper to obtain good fuel efficiency and a camper.

As far as mountain biking goes, we are lucky to be able to ride from home most of the time to get it done. The trails here are as good as anything we drive 100's of miles for. It's just curiosity to want to experience the natural beauty of different places. And I have to admit it's also vanity that drives us to travel.

Domestic travel is one thing. What about air travel? Flying has to become more expensive in the short and long term. What will happen to places which depend upon tourism? We've already seen significant effects from the pandemic!

I work for a major freight carrier. While I don't think the company will go away, I do know that freight costs are going to increase a lot! We'll experience inflation. I wonder how my investments will fare.

As I consider the prospects for my eventual retirement, the idea of not riding to work every day and being relied on to show up and get the work done seems depressing! I love being a useful person. Driving around the country in a camper van just feels wrong to me. I would never say that to my nomadic friends.

Those people in Ukraine don't get to go on long camper van drives. Those humongous land yachts I see on the roads are not attractive to me. Most of the world, if they saw this stuff, what would they think?

​​​​​​The insatiable consumerism of the USA and it's corporate pursuit of profit has created the place in which we ride our bikes. I try to reconcile myself to the harsh reality, but serially fail to do anything effective to change this culture for the better, and instead pursue endless bike rides and immersion in nature.
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Old 03-27-22, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
ALL the world governments AND our wants of convenience have contributed to the current world situations....

This is an opportunity for me to make more inclusive reasoning to take my bike longer, further, and into more inclement weather. Gotta fight war profiteering the best I can!
Thank you for writing this, you have made my day. I can go to sleep now, peacefully.
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Old 03-29-22, 05:44 PM
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I live in Canada and our "carbon tax" on petrol is going up on April 1st and no it is not a joke. I wish we had the current USA prices...
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