bigjim1

I remember being in my naive twenties and having the same philosophy. Then you meet that someone who ignites that spark and there is no turning back.
I think it went something like this- "man said to god. I have a plan. God looked kindly at him and laughed"

Jim

talleymonster

Wow. I just spent half an hour reading this thread. Awesome thread.
When I was younger, more money meant more toys. I used to spend each paycheck the same day I got it on stupid stuff that I didn't really need.

I'm married with an almost one year old daughter, so I still spend money but in a different way.

-My wife has become quite the coupon hound. At first I had a real arrogant attitude about coupons, thinking they were only for people on welfare (VERY Naive, I know). But then I started to see how much we were saving on stuff. I just have to keep on her sometimes, because coupons tend to get you to buy things that you don't really need just because it is such a good deal.

-We made all of our daughters baby food. 1 jar of banana baby food costs .50 cents. We would buy a whole pound of organic bananas for 1.00$ and have enough banana baby food to last two weeks. Originally we did it for the health reasons....no additives, no preservatives, etc. But then we realized how much we were saving. And we've done it it with everything: Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken, Potatoes, Carrots, Bananas, Lentils, Peas, Green Beans, Avacadoes, Pineapples, Apples, Squash, etc, etc, etc. Our daughter wouldn't take to the breast, so we had to put her on formula. 30$ a can, and she was going through a can a week. The wife soon found coupons for those and we were only spending 20$ per can, saving 10$ a can.

-I could not bring myself to use cloth diapers. Just couldn't do it. We signed up online with all the different brands of diapers and the coupons started flowing in.

-We both read a lot, but most of our books were from CHEAP lot buys on eBay, or more recently from PaperbackSwap, a book swapping site that is free of cost. You only pay to ship a book to somebody else(usually only 2.13$)

-I do spend some money on my tools as it is my livelihood and how I make my living.

-We just moved from a 900 sq foot apartment to an 1,800 sq ft house, but the rent is only 100$ more. So yes, I'm paying more, but I'm doubling the amount of room that I had before and now I have a yard for my daughter to play in, along with other perks. We threw out a lot of stuff when we moved.

-A lot of our furniture has been from Craigslist, thrift stores and yard sales. My fridge was a freebie from Craigslist.

-I own minimal clothes. Most are work clothes anyways. When we moved we dumped out all of our clothes into our spare bedroom so we could sort through everything at once and decide what to keep and what to throw away. I had several that got turned into shop rags.

-We do have cable and internet. My wife is a stay at home mom and she wants some TV during the day. I would miss a couple of shows, but I could live without it.

-We rent movies from the library for free

-We have two cars, both with car payments and full coverage insurance. I figure once I get more into the swing of commuting, we'll get rid of one of them. That'll save around 400$ a month right there!

-I used to go to the liquor store and spend anywhere from 50$-75% a week on beer. This was of course before my wife got pregnant. I didn't drink anything until my daughter was born. I mean good craft and import beer, not Bud/Miller/Coors, etc. and drink it all week long. Now I limit myself to one six pack every payday. That wasn't healthy or cheap. I also used to homebrew beer. Don't let anyone tell you that it is cheaper, because it is not. You need a minimal 100$ investment up front to buy the BASIC gear. I guess it's just like biking, you're always wanting more gear. I stopped brewing and sold most of my equipment. I did save a little for the occasional batch of wine. (both of my sisters are getting married, si I have to make wedding wine)


All in all, I would say I'm better with my money now. Before we had the baby, my wife had a good job as a bartender and we used to throw money around left and right. Well she stays at home now(I don't like daycares) so I had to adjust to one income. And we're always finding ways to be even more frugal.

Actually I got into biking kinda on an impulse, but I didn't have to spend any cash. I traded a guy on Craigslist for my snowboard(an impulse buy also). I did however just drop 100$ on Nashbar to buy some needed components.

Roody

Those are some great suggestions, talleymonster. I will definitely check paperbackswap. I also use the library a lot. My library has a huge used book store in the basement. The proceeds go to the library budget, so that's a double benefit.

It's gratifying to see a young father devoting so much energy to providing himself and his family with a happy, healthy and simple life. I hope you continue to post your good ideas on this forum. Thank you!

Lamplight

I suppose that could indeed happen to me as well, but so far I've felt the same way for quite a long time. I've never wanted children, and I can't imagine ever thinking differently. But who knows?

I-Like-To-Bike

Good buddy Roody asked me to comment on this post:
Sounds like talleymonster fits the profile for Roody's (and fellow self righteous moralists) favorite punching bag: two cars, TV and Cable, moved into larger living quarters, etc. Usually their sermons do not recognize any excuse for such extravagance and waste.

To me, he sounds like a sensible fellow who has adjusted his spending/personal habits to meet his changing needs. Actually sounds a lot like the adjustments in my own life as family responsibilities changed, though we always used cloth diapers on all three children and washed the diapers at home. His attempts at frugality in acquiring essentials like furniture and clothing track my methods too, though instead of Craigslist we used garage sales, thrift stores, etc. In Germany, much of our furniture came for free by way of selective treasure hunting on Sperrmüll Days. I never developed a taste for expensive beer so never had to make downward adjustments other than drinking US local beer after drinking local German beer for ten years.

talleymonster

Yeah,we had a poorly laid out 900 sq ft apartment. It was just fine for the two of us, but nce the baby came along it was just too cramped. Babies take up a lot of space!

I-Like-To-Bike

You don't have to convince me, but some of our fellow posters write as if they believe the basement of their parent's house or a fourth floor walk-up in a run down slum provides all the shelter necessary for the righteous, and should be good enough for everyone else too.

Roody

I agree with what you say about talleymonster. His ideas (and yours) fit quite nicely with my own. I believe that simple living is a combination of sensible frugality and self-reliance, NOT an uncomfortable exercise in asceticism.It's a matter of putting long-term sustainable happiness ahead of momentary gratification. My life is happier and more comfortable to the extent that it's simpler. And I will grant that in some cases, it's actually "simpler" to have a car than to be carfree. I don't know where you get the idea that I think differently--probably from your own stereotypes and prejudices rather than from anything that I actually wrote on this forum.

As for your opinions on beer, you're wrong. After drinking, say, a freshly drawn Czech pilsner in Europe, Pabst just don't get it. Unfortunately, I'm an alcoholic and I've been unable to drink beer for 25 years now, but I still remember the incomparable deliciousness of those European drafts.

talleymonster

Definitely. To the ones who can manage a completely car-free lifestyle, kudos. I however cannot.
I posted on this in another thread earlier...

My life demands a car for some things:

-Groceries. Too much for a bike, at least on my bike. In the future if I get ahold of another bike to use as a hauler it would be feasible as I have multiple grocery stores within a 3 mile radius. But not right now.

-Bad Weather. Las Vegas doesn't get a lot of rain, but when it does rain here it pours.

-Doctors visits. Our pediatrician is about 15 miles away from our house. Some would say get a new doctor that is closer. But we have an awesome pediatrician and we sticking with her. Good doctors don't grow on trees, once you find one you keep him/her.

-Work. I work in construction, so when one job ends and I would be going to the next job I would be carrying probably somewhere around 60lbs of tools and gear. This doesn't happen everyday, but when it does I would need a car. Who knows, the next job I'm on could be 20+ miles away. Where I work right now is only 6.8 miles away.

-Craigslist. I'm a craigslist junkie

-Visiting family. Both mine and my wife's parents live about 125 miles away. Our daughter is the first grandchild on both sides of the family, so naturally we go for a weekend visit once every 5-6 weeks.


And what if your bike is in the shop? I guess the majority of people have more than one bike so that wouldn't be a problem. I'm just starting out and I only have my one bike for right now.

I-Like-To-Bike

I guess I must have been reading someone else's posts that habitually and stubbornly use the term "Cager" as a pejorative to describe anyone who uses a car. And rants about the use of any motorized vehicle that doesn't meet your stringent standards.

Also must have been someone else who has posted several rants about the size of other people's houses, the kinds of food they eat, etc.

Roody

My bike shop now offers me a loaner when they need to keep my bike for a while. They never used to do this, but I think the owner is finally starting to understand that some of us--good customers--actually rely on our bikes for transportation. I know I've whined enough to him that he should be getting the idea!

talleymonster

That's pretty cool. Is that a common practice in LBS's everywhere?
I just went yesterday and checked out my LBS. Pretty nice establishment, friendly employees, bike racks by the front door, etc. they didn't seem to carry a lot of different brands as far as accessories go, but I see myself sticking with nashbar for components anyways. LBS will be mainly for repairs and the occasional emergency tube or tire. It's not even a mile away from me.

bluoet03

I can relate to so much in this particular post. My wife and I have a 9 month old, and she's a stay-at-home mom / student. Nearly everything here touched on something we had to deal with.

We used to make three times what we currently do, but hated our jobs. So we moved, started over, and vowed to live off of one income - the other (hers) was "Extra" for paying off debts. We paid off our credit cards and one of our two cars in less than two years, plus built up a good amount in savings.

She collects coupons - those diaper ones are especially useful because we also, after much research and soul-searching - decided not to use cloth.

Another huge baby $-saver is for his food. We use beechnut for his prepared food, and if you save the labels and send them in, they send you massive amounts of coupons. $1.50 off 8 jars adds up fast. Breastfeeding also helps - that formula's liquid gold, I swear!

My car (the one that's paid for) hasn't moved more than 2 miles since I bought my new bike this year. That's already saved us a tank of gas (which goes a little towards offsetting the cost of the bike - but so does the 5 pounds I've lost).

We budget. This is important, I think. We write out menus a week in advance and buy groceries for that particular menu. This decreases food waste and impulse buys at the store. Also, we're vegetarian and we don't rely on fake meat (which is more $$$ than the real thing).

We also have cable and internet. The internet is necessary for since I freelance on top of my reg. job, and is helpful since she's a student. The cable is only a $15/mo add on when you have the internet and for us, for now, its worth it - though I keep trying to rationalize getting rid of it.

We're about to get rid of our cell phones in favor of a nationwide calling plan on a land-line. We'll buy a tracphone for on the road and emergency situations. So our phone bill is about to go from $100 per mo to $48/mo.

I am also a craft beer enthusiast. Before our son was born (especially before my wife become pregnant) we would go out with friends every Monday and drop $30 at the bar, and usually another $15 a week on home consumption. Currently, I tend to pick up a 6-pack a week - but am working on what [talleymonster] said - 6-pack/payday. It is a hard habit to break, though.

kflorek

Here's how I live simply: Never throw away anything that you don't have to because it might come in handy. For instance, say that you tear down a partition wall. The nails can be put in a cleaned cottage cheese container in case you might ever need bent, 3-inch nails with dull points from hammering them out. Don't straighten them before the need arises -an unconscionable waste of effort- because in all likelihood the need will never come. That's simplicity, eh?

You may be thinking this is wasteful because the nails could be recycled. Wrong. There is no recycling for nails, only cans. Neither have I ever seen old nails at Sal's boutique. So the nails would go into a landfill.

You may be wondering: Why save nails you will probably never use? You are missing the essential point. The probability of using any one item is low, but if you keep enough items, the probability of having something useful becomes likely.

I still have the first computer I ever owned, from around 1978, a Fairchild F8 development kit, with 1 K of 1 megahertz RAM. Whenever I decide to toss stuff like this, I first see if I can find a use for it, and fortunately I always find a possibility. I don't remember what it was in this case, but as soon as I decide to toss it again, I could get back to you with what it is if you might want to know.

I do throw away banana peels, egg shells, veggie-burger bags, etc.

In the case of bicycles, my simplicity of habit fortuitously lead me to retain my Raleigh Superbe since 1973. It's been revived for various purposes several times in the interval. Around summer last year, I gave up walking to the get the groceries. (I sort of like to walk and that gives me a purpose.) It's pleasant going, but just too hard carrying significant amounts back for 3 miles or so. The plastic bags grippers bunch up and cuts into my hands for one thing, then cuts off the blood supply. I was looking on-line at grocery carts and inadvertently saw a mention of putting a plastic milk crate (so-called) onto a bike, using band-style hose clamps. I had the bike, the crate and the clamps in my inventory. It was quick, easy, and free to try. It is functionally equivalent to a small cart, but no doubt more durable than the carts I found on-line; and it carried more than I could manage walking. Biking is easier and faster than walking, although it is not enjoyable, as walking somewhat is. It still is comparatively more pleasant than driving. When the weather got too messy in the winter (in Michigan) I pretty much switched back to a automobiling. Then the second and newer of my two cars (a 1989) also became inoperable, and they refused to splice the rusted brake line (because the law and their insurance forbids this) when they couldn't get the old line loose. It was alright by them for me to drive the car home with no brakes though. So now I am car free, in a way. Life is so simple.

Although the sidewalls of the bike's tires were crackled and crumbling so you could see the tube through the fabric liner, I could not waste OK tires that had lots of tread. I was contemplating having to trudge through the snow with a blown tire and the groceries loaded on the bike, but it never happened. It still would be easier than carrying the groceries. After it got warm again, I got a flat from an invisibly teeny flake of glass. I didn't realize at first why my bike was riding so hard -steel on concrete- and grievously mangled the sidewall, so I thought it advisable to get all new rubber. The old tubes and tires are (additional) spares. Simplicity, eh?

kflorek

I heard of this years ago elsewhere (60 Minutes was it?) before I read this thread. On the TV program, if I remember, some of the stuff was pristine except for being located in a dumpster. I never had a motive to participate, but I was more than curious enough to look. The couple of containers that I was ever able to find a way to peruse for possible valuables (usually they are too high to see into the top, or are enclosed there too, and the side openings are locked; yes locked) had mashed stinky remnants of unidentifiable offal, or some remnant foul puddle of decomposition at the bottom. The contents doesn't look enticing when the garbage truck comes by and flips it all out though. There must be some sort of insider knowledge for this to work at all.

An area I used to shop at is converted from street-front stores and the alley with dumpsters is between the parking lot and the stores. I didn't notice the time one trip and got there when things were closed. There is a dumpster container by the Salvation Army which is open, but it is for donations, not garbage. You can see looters trucks loading up after hours. They throw everything they don't like in a heap on the pavement, for speed. Not just because of the cops. A competitor for the spoils showed up, and there was trouble. I thought I should leave fast before I was spotted. I wonder if diving for groceries has a similar competition?

Roody

I don't know about competition for discarded groceries. But when I was at Michigan State University, I noticed that certain people gathered pop bottles and cans from classrooms and dorms. (As you know, bottles and cans are worth 10 cents each in Michigan.) One time I accidentally walked into a classroom where these gatherers were holding a meeting. They were talking about how some people were taking bottles and cans where they had no business doing it, and they better quit if they know what's good for them. It reminded me of a movie where the Mafia dons get together to carve up their territories. I got out of there pretty quick when they noticed me!

Anyhow, kflorek, I sure enjoyed the 2 messages you posted here. You have interesting ideas about simple living, and a very colorful way of writing about them. And I love it when fellow Michiganders come to LCF! I hope you like this forum and you decide to stick around.

ron_bike4peace

i've been car free for 10 years now. there is not much that is more liberating than going car free, at least for me. it was a break from the car culture that has so many of us trapped.
i recently moved everything i own by bicycle! it was great. the looks on peoples faces when you are going down the road with a dresser on your bike trailer. i try to be an example in my community. i have seen others transition out of their cars. it's awesome to see someone get free.
it's extremely empowering to break the over dependence of an automobile and of the whole consumer/materialistic culture that has been created.
"change the world one bike at time"

talleymonster

I want to see a picture!

c_dinsmore

i'd love to read all of this thread and hopefully add to it - this is one of the primary focuses in my life. but for now i just have to throw in, because i feel that it's something that is largely overlooked, that SHARING is a major way to cut back! think, if you pool money and resources with everyone around you, how much you could share and save on. examples: a pick up truck for a whole community, netflix accounts, big houses with many people and split rent/mortgage, bike trailers, personal X rather community libraries, garden plots, bulk-bought items of food, bulk-bought items of whatever else you need (less packaging is less wasteful as long as you use all you get), one tv and dvd player for dozens of people, musical instruments, magazine subscriptions, et cetera, et cetera. really, about anything can be shared. it saves money, it cuts back on the number of things having to be produced in the world, and it forces you to be closer to the people around you. the only true setback is: it takes a little more patience. sometimes you have to wait for a few hours or a day to use what you want. but don't we all ***** and claim and preach about wanting to slow down our lives anyway! so, if it's been said here already, props to keeping the dream alive! if not, let's get down to it, brother and sisters. much love, grace, peace to you all. -colin

c_dinsmore

oh, and, last but not least: BICYCLES! i own about 40 bicycles to be shared between dozens of my friends. it's great! you can use a roadie or cruiser or (to a lesser extent) mountain for different days and events.

chephy

If you want to talk about naive, then a philosophy along the lines of "It happened to me, therefore it will happen to everyone else" fits the bill.

bigjim1

Originally Posted by bigjim1 I remember being in my naive twenties and having the same philosophy. Then you meet that someone who ignites that spark and there is no turning back.


Ooer. Sorry. Did I touch a nerve?

Jim

I-Like-To-Bike

College Life is Grand ain't it? Brotherhood, Fraternity; the Simple Life! Nothing more simple than a New Age Toga Party. Enjoy it.

Novakane 

I agree with you there. It's easy to fall into that mindset when you're young and the world revolves around you (well, it seems to) but after a time you realize that given the shear number of variables in the world - it's actually less likely for this to be true than it appears.

cookie addict

"You do not truly own anything that you can not carry at a dead run."

Allthough we have been car free for 18months and SO MUCH better for it, we still have too much crap: 3 couches, 5 computers, 1000+ books.... Toting it all around for years and across states and continents. We have to chunk some stuff - take that first step, but it hurts, my God it hurts!