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Loss of drivers has hurt the us economy.

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Loss of drivers has hurt the us economy.

Old 03-05-06, 09:54 PM
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Loss of drivers has hurt the us economy.

Has anyone thought about how many jobs would be lost if people gave up purchasing new cars?
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Old 03-05-06, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by obliterator
Has anyone thought about how many jobs would be lost if people gave up purchasing new cars?
You're assuming those workers wouldn't be picked up by other industries.
In the 1960s or 1970s Algoma Steel employed 12,000 people, now they employ 3600. All through the mining, manufacturing and other heavy industry sector job numbers have been massively reduced by automation, but those jobs get replaced by jobs in the financial sector, the high-tech sector, the entertainment industry, service industries, etc. etc. etc. Plus, there's actually likely to be a severe labour shortage in North America in the next few years due to mass retirement of baby boomers.
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Old 03-05-06, 10:40 PM
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Thought about it? I dream about it every day.
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Old 03-05-06, 10:45 PM
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Your argument is based soley on faith that people who lose their jobs will find another one, am I correct? But the automotive industry is excessively massive employing hundreds of thousands of workers. The U.S. has been set up where goods and services are not readily accessible by bike and have been designed under the assumption that people can get their using a car. If the car manufacturers go out of buisness that would be due to a lack of interest in the autombile. And if this happens many buisnesses that rely on their customers getting to their establishment by car will lose out on many customers. In return their buisnesses will go under. So if the closure of automobile factories lead to the closure of buisnesses that rely on people having automobiles, where will all the people laid of from car plant work?
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Old 03-05-06, 10:55 PM
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Did anyone worry about how many buggy whip manufacturers went under in the early 1900s ?

Why would it be a bad thing if people lose jobs due to an increase in bicyclists but a good thing if people lose jobs because automobiles are being produced overseas?
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Old 03-05-06, 11:14 PM
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If you were one of the people losing their jobs i'm sure you would be the first one to care. I'm also sure that their were many people who cared about the loss of the buggy. My point isn't the workers that directly would be hurt from the loss of their jobs in the automotive industry, but the economy that would be affected by the loss of people using the car. Are country has been built up to what we see know adays thanks to the car and if it were to become extinct so would are economy. I don't think the buggy traveled 20 miles to get organic groceries.
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Old 03-05-06, 11:43 PM
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If the car has suddenly become obsolete, I'm pretty sure the free market will correct that, perhaps employing all these people in making trains, buses, and being employed by the mass transit industry. The surplus will be picked up by whatever industry replaced the car as a primary means of transporation be it bicycles, bicycle shops, instant teleportation manufacturers, teleportation rentals, personal walker assistants, personal walker coaches, rocket-powered sneaker manufacturers, stable boys, horse breeders, ancient throne carriers, human buggy operators, etc, etc. Then there's always Walmart and McDonald's.
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Old 03-05-06, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by obliterator
Your argument is based soley on faith that people who lose their jobs will find another one, am I correct?
Originally Posted by obliterator
If you were one of the people losing their jobs i'm sure you would be the first one to care.

Of course I wouldn't want to lose my job. But your argument is based solely on the assumption that economies and people can't adapt to changing circumstances and find ways to profit from them. There will be whole sectors devoted to re-engineering society to accomodate post-automotive, post-petrochemical culture. Infill housing, transit construction, delivery services, windmill erection, home insulation, compost collection, rickshaw building, even street cobbling (for the delivery horses). Of course I'm being a bit facetious, but my main point stands. We no longer have anywhere near the number of workers employed in grain thrashing or handloom operation that we had 1-2 centuries ago, and we adapted and put those people to work doing something else, and we'll do it again.

Oh, and look for buggy whip manufacturers to make a comeback!
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Old 03-06-06, 12:12 AM
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But your argument is based solely on the assumption that economies and people can't adapt to changing circumstances and find ways to profit from them.

I'm not afraid that over time people could eventually adapt to the changing situation, but the key word there is eventually. What would happen to the economy and people that would be affected by the abrupt seizure to the production and owning of automobiles assuming it would take a certain amount of time for the world to adapt to this change. How do we convince people that automobiles are no longer necessary? What new jobs would we have to take the place of the transportation needs of the world? Its nice and dandy to say that people will correct their mistakes and adapt to a changing environment, didnt Darwin say that, but this would all have to be a slow process and I'm not sure how we would obtain this goal without hurting the world in the process.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker
Oh, and look for buggy whip manufacturers to make a comeback!
I wouldn't expect horses to make a big come-back. Horses require specialized skills, environments, and constant attention. We can get the better efficiencies with greater convenience simply by reducing the "horsepower" of our vehicles. A national top speed limit of 45MPH for instance (it was 35 during WWII) would drastically reduce the amount of oil consumed in this country, allow much smaller engines, and still be more than twice the maximum speed a horse and reader can achieve. As a side benefit, it would virtually eliminate the 40,000 annual automotive deaths.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:41 AM
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The purpose of a job is to have goods.

The purpose of goods is NOT to provide jobs.

So what if no one wants to buy cars? If the largest employer in the US were "kick you in the balls" stands, would you feel obligated to buy their service?
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Old 03-06-06, 01:35 AM
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Wind energy is fairly labor intensive, and this industry is flourishing. As of the end of 2005, the total installed wind power capacity stands at 59,322 MW worldwide, an increase of 25% compared to 2004. Vestas, the largest turbine manufacturer, has outstanding orders for over 3000 MW.
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Old 03-06-06, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by obliterator
Has anyone thought about how many jobs would be lost if people gave up purchasing new cars?
No, but I've wondered how people will purchase new cars if they've lost their jobs.
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Old 03-06-06, 02:27 AM
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What would happen to the economy and people that would be affected by the abrupt seizure to the production and owning of automobiles assuming it would take a certain amount of time for the world to adapt to this change.
You seemed to have forgotten people are already starting to adapt , I think it will be slow change but before you know it'll be normal , it won't be sudden if you look at the car manufactures there building more economical cars so just keep watching ..
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Old 03-06-06, 05:59 AM
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It's been demonstrated over and over that the job market adapts. Think of all the jobs displaced by computers being able to do so many things. They've affected every single category of jobs. The unemployment rate hasn't changed that much since computers came about.
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Old 03-06-06, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bikeybikebike
So what if no one wants to buy cars? If the largest employer in the US were "kick you in the balls" stands, would you feel obligated to buy their service?
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Old 03-06-06, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bikeybikebike
The purpose of a job is to have goods.

The purpose of goods is NOT to provide jobs.

So what if no one wants to buy cars? If the largest employer in the US were "kick you in the balls" stands, would you feel obligated to buy their service?


Further, the purpose of jobs is to not to provide livelihoods, it is to provide a production input for people who need workers. They are buyng your labor. Ideally, a society should use less labor per dollar gdp per capta over time, and not more. Otherwise we would be working our asses off! If lowered labor per gdp/capita occurs, then we simply need to to institute things like 35-hour work weeks and mandatory 6 week vacations in order to make sure that there are enough jobs to go around.
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Old 03-06-06, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by obliterator
Has anyone thought about how many jobs would be lost if people gave up purchasing new cars?

Am I the only one who has noticed numerous Anti-Car-Free postings on here, particularly regarding economic factors, such as the one above?

Besides, what is the above supposed to be? A rant? A cogent argument (it's definitely not that) ???
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Old 03-06-06, 07:58 AM
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Obliterator, what is your point? That because there is a need for the car industry, we must be good citizens and buy cars?

Or is it to defend car owners?
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Old 03-06-06, 08:22 AM
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There are whole groups that are deeply concerned with the loss of cars, loss of money for new roads, (less fuel tax for roads maintenance and new), insurance, dealers, advertising is a huge one, (how much of your local paper has car adds?), vocational schools. Even hybrids can be seen as a threat because; they use less gas and therefore generate less tax money for road repair.

I predict that this will have a domino effect—less drivers will drive up the costs associated with driving and that will reduce the number of miles driven.



I have seen web sites where they are touting the value of dealerships to the local economy.

http://www.pittsburghauto.org/PATA/m...?section=links

Here is an economic impact for my area—
http://www.pittsburghauto.org/PATA/impact.pdf

Just think how many doctors would be out of business if the miles traveled by car where cut in half!

Here’s some of the ways that they are fighting back:
Scholarships. Major companies giving money to train students in auto service,
http://www.ayes.org/news

covering their rears-
http://expo.nada.org/nada2006/public...x?SessionID=43

Fighting Government regulation
http://www.nada.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ListComboInd=D

http://www.aiadalists.org/govRelations/issues.aspx

When bikes became the rage in the early 20th century, piano makers where up in arms because people bought fewer pianos.

Anyone seen any good road lobby web sites? I am sure that they are out there.
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Old 03-06-06, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by obliterator
Has anyone thought about how many jobs would be lost if people gave up purchasing new cars?
I suspect 20% of the entire economy would be functionally unemployed. The automobile industry does not just effect Detroit but hundreds of thousands of workers across other industries like construction, police, carpentry, oil, plastics etc.

There's no going back. We're stuck with this monster forever.
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Old 03-06-06, 10:47 AM
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Are country has been built up to what we see know adays thanks to the car and if it were to become extinct so would are economy. I don't think the buggy traveled 20 miles to get organic groceries.
Think how many jobs would be gained if we gave up our cars and started converting most of our farms over to organic foods! Think how many jobs would be gained if we started hiring enough people to produce solar and wind power stations to replace the coal-powered ones we have now!

We could afford it if we spent less on the auto industry!

A couple centuries ago, my ancestors (yours too, maybe) were part of an economy that spent vast sums of money surrounding its cities with stone walls in order to protect them. Then some people found some cheap ways to make those walls almost completely ineffective (Artillery, basically.) Many, many jobs were lost because governments stopped building those walls. I suppose we could have kept building stone walls around our cities to this very day, but I'm glad that our economy has shifted its resources away from walls and towards things that people believed to be more useful. (I suspect that means roads, among other things.)

If you don't want to see an instant collapse of a particular industry, fine. If you don't want to see a gradual decline in a particular industry, you'll have to defend the industry on its merits alone.
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Old 03-06-06, 11:18 AM
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I live in Lansing, the city that brought you Oldsmobile and Fisher Body. We have lost thousands of jobs due to automaion in the auto plants. The manufacturing job losses in most industries is much more due to automation than to reduced consumption. In some industries, job loss has been caused by plants moving to regions and countries with lower labor classes.
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Old 03-06-06, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by obliterator
Has anyone thought about how many jobs would be lost if people gave up purchasing new cars?
Now, Obliterator, please tell me the url for your car forum. I want to go there and harrass people the same way you come here with your stupid pro-auto bull****.
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Old 03-06-06, 01:20 PM
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When one considers that the automotive, weapons, and aerospace industries are all we really have left for industrial production in this country, it doesn't bode well for us.

Nevertheless, it is a dying market that must adapt to lower demand.
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