digitalia

well, i guess OBVIOUSLY not... though i don't really have any intention of ever owning one. just wanted to know how i sat with this crowd, which i highly admire.

i was getting a little fed-up with the renting thing late last year and SERIOUSLY started looking at the cost of owning a car, but living in downtown Toronto it's more of a hassle than it's worth. i can get pretty much anywhere i want on my bike, live 15 minutes away from work ON FOOT, parking is painful and insurance - fahgetaboutit.

however, both myself and my girl have immediate families that live 1&1/2 and 2 hours away. where my folks are is in butt-fudge nowhere, so buses are a hassle (means either parent has to drive 1/2 hour each way to get us from the nearest station). i also do live music that requires some driving for short tours. in either case, i rent.

the good thing about renting vs owning to me is you can get the right car for whatever situation. the car i wouldn't mind owning (if at all) would be a nice small hatch, like a Mazda 3 - i honestly was drooling over those a few months back. however, 6 of us wanted to goto Montreal recently for which we needed a minivan.

point is - i am quite content to never have to purchase a car. when i told my dad i thought i should get one last year, he talked me out of it.

and now i've picked up some good tips on renting, in Canada anyway. Get a TD VISA Gold card and not only do you NOT have to pay insurance, you can get 15% off rentals at Budget. on weekends that's less than $25/day for a compact.

just some advice for anyone else out there trying to live car-free but not quite able to do so...

cheers,
joe

chephy

Hey - thanks for the tip! I've never rented a car in my life, but I know people who rent regularly, and this seems like a nice way to save some change!

digitalia

chephy - i'm sure there are other similiar deals on other cards. just that i was looking into ones that would save the insurance and found out about this as well.

also worth looking into is https://www.zipcar.com, seems to be a better deal than AutoShare. good for just getting around time when a bike won't do.

AlanK

I agree completely. I seldom need a car, but on the few occasions I do, I rent one.

As long as renting costs less than owning, there's no sense in owning a car. If your residence and work are in reasonable proximity, you don't need a car except maybe on weekends to get of the city. If you drive every (or almost every) weekend, then it might be more cost effective to buy a car.

bookishboy

I think that "Living Car-Free" is something of an idealized state. If you shop in a grocery store, then even your necessities were trucked-in, and you're funding the car culture by paying for those goods.

If you're aiming towards a "Car-Free" lifestyle, for whatever reasons, then every choice you make which reduces your dependance on automobiles is a step in the right direction. I think there are very few *truly* car-free people out there, but there are a lot of us who keep the ideal in sight, in mind. I doubt that anyone in here is going to look down on someone because they rent a car sometimes.

carless

For a small donation to this site we'll send you a certificate and magnetic bumper sticker for rental cars.

chephy

Thanks. I'll check this out.

catatonic

To me "living car-free" means that you do not need a car for the day-to-day. For a "car-free" person, a car is just a tool or luxury, not a necessity.

That said, i do rent when I need a car. Nothing wrong with that. For my day-to-day I do just fine with my bikes though, and have become very good at using them for utility duty, despite their design not really being suitable for that.

Apartment living, and car-free is a very tough combination sometimes. The apartment is small enough that you can't fit a large utility bike areound it, at least without fear of it being stolen, but at the same time, apartments are usually what's most likely to be located in a place that allows for a car-free lifestyle. Go figure

0_emissions :=)

I also think renting is an excellent idea if you don't use a vehicle very much. Think about it...the average cost of ownership is in the neighbourhood of 500+/month. I rented a car for my dad's 50th back in the winter. I ended up driving 2000 km+ in 3 days. it cost me 80 bucks for the weekend(car & insurance), and then gas. I have not needed a car since then. So, basically it cost me about 20 bucks a month for that rental. If you don't need to drive a lot, go for it. Plus, it's someone else's car, so you can ratbag the living s*** out of it.

catatonic

Well, if you do your own work on the car, and buy a cheap (but reliable) car outright. Only factoring gas and insurance, can be as low as $80/mo to just keep it around.

The problem with that though is leaving a car sitting around often leads to flat tires, and other things of the like. Plus most places don't like having a car just sit there in the parking lot.

For me, the frequency I rent puts my rental costs around $150/yr. So renting pays itself off by the second month. That's around $800 savings a year. That's equal to a reaosnable pay raise.

Roody

Carfree or not, we all rant once in a while--that's why they have an internet, so we can rant sometimes. As somebody else posted, there's really nothing wrong with a little rant. It clears the air and you feel better after you tell everybody what you think of them.

Oh sorry. I see now that you were talking about renting, not ranting.

...Never mind...

I would try not to rent a car too often. It could easily become a vice. Better idea: if you "need" a car, and can't think of a human-powered alternative, try to ride with somebody who's going that way anyway. Plan ahead. For example, if I know I'm going to need to go to Home Depot in the next few weeks, I'll let my friends know. They'll usually offer me a ride some Saturday morning when they're going anyway.

gwd

In the six years since I dumped the car I've rented a car once to take a day trip to see my daughter
who had gone away to a small college in the middle of nowhere, once on a business trip, and once
to do a road trip to New York with three other people. I've shared a cab with friends a few times too.

My pattern of car use is so far away from my suburban upbringing that it is incomprehensible to my
family. I'm car free in the same sense that an ex-drug addict who will take an aspirin when he has a
fever but hasn't used recreational drugs in six years is considered by society to have been drug free
for those six years. My brother and his wife with no kids have 4 cars between them. His wife has a
car that she keeps soley to drive from their neighborhood without sidewalks to another neighborhood
with sidewalks where she jogs and walks since it isn't safe to walk in her neighborhood and she doesn't
want to park the new car in the low class neighborhood with sidewalks. I'm just bringing my relatives
into this to illustrate that a person can change. My brother and I grew up in the same environment and
the same city but I made different choices.

Platy

I usually buy gas for anyone who gives me a ride somewhere.

KrisPistofferson

I'm forced to rent as well, some of the time, and I'm also an auto mechanic, but I'm just as car-free as anyone on this board.

0_emissions :=)

Quite interesting. My sisters, brother and I grew up in the same environment, yet we hold entirely different views. I think that they are they way they because of their environment, and I hold different views, partly because i've traveled a lot and lived in many different environments, and have based my beliefs on a culmination of everything that i've seen & lived in. I know that to an extent you are a product of your surroundings, but a little travel can really open your eyes.

PIZZ

I live in NYC, I've used zipcar on occation. It's fine for that special occation when your bike just wont cut it. My folks live out in NJ so occationally i'll rent a car for a day. Although taking transit to anywhere is no problem here in the northeast.

digitalia

i can honestly say that transit in Toronto BLOWS. to get out to our friends one night should've been a one-hour, one-streetcar ride (two, tops, if i don't get the one going all the way to the end of the line) ended up being TWO hours and FIVE streetcars as most of them ended up turning off the route prematurely. i routinely have to wait about 15-20 minutes to get on a streetcar at rush hour, the few times i've had to lately. it's a collasul waste of time, the subway is slightly better.

!!Comatoa$ted

I am lucky because when I need a car I can borrow my in-laws car. They offer me their car all the time and do not mind letting me use it whenever I want. They have 2 cars themselves. So I just bike over to their place and grab the car when I have to go to Montreal or Ottawa, which is about once or twice a month. I think that they like when I borrow the car because they always get it back with a full tank, no matter how much gas was in it to begin with. There is the odd time that I need the car on a moments notice and they are using both of them, so in that case I rent. I am glad that this does not happen often though.

cabana 4 life

i just rented a car this weekend. it was kinda weird because i owen a company called "one less car" but had a tone of stuff to take to bike event 3 hours away, what are you going to do. it was ok at least now when people b**ch about gas i can say" i know"

PurpleK

Are you carfree?

Of course you are. To me, living car free is simply living without owning a motor vehicle. Renting an automobile for that odd occurance when you need one is part of it. Car free lifestyle means you have found a way to live without dependence on a motor vehicle for the most mundane of tasks. For you, use of a motor vehicle is so infrequent that personal ownership and maintenance is not practical.

bdinger

How about those of us who own a vehicle, but choose to keep it around?

For me, it's just simple math. My pickup was totaled, and at the time I "needed" another one. I bought and drove a Mazda MX-6 for a couple of months, but my nearly 6ft 3in frame that had a back screwed up from a miserable accident just wasn't comfortable in it. So I debated spending loads of money on a brand new pickup. I ended up finding a pickup nearly identical to my previous one, in great shape, and mechanically sound. Paid cash for it, opting for staying debt-free rather than having a shiny penis extension in my garage.

And boy am I glad I did. With my newfound love of bike commuting, I would be seriously kicking myself in the ass had I bought that new truck.

So basically I'm stuck in a situation where it just doesn't make sense for me to sell it. It's a mechanically perfect reasonably late model (mid-'90s) that is paid for. The title is in my safety deposit box. My insurance premiums are negligible to say the least, usually around $200/6mos. Fuel costs have dropped to next to nothing, I put $20 in it two weeks ago and have yet to use it all up. This is contrast to the $80 or so I'd spend previously.

I am, however, selling my old hot rod. I have a '68 Ford Galaxie that's been "in the process of being restored" for the past 8 years, and I have given up on it. Not really given up, but realized that it's not my thing anymore. So I'm getting rid of that one.

But really, for me, not having a vehicle is impractical. I do some volunteer activities for the county that require a vehicle, and umm... I don't think rentals offer insurance that cover what I'd do.. lol!

However, I do refuse to drive every day of the week except Saturday, and except for emergencies. Some weeks (like this week) when I have to do a LOT of commuting, it really sucks - I think after tonight I'll be up to 60 miles since Monday - but it's better than burning fuel!

So there it is. Is my situation acceptable?

digitalia

i applaud you, sir... my concept of an IDEAL vehicle owner. i'd probably do the same if it were financially practical as I have a good idea of the car i'd like to own. but cost of vehicle + insurance + month parking living in an apartment = no sense at all for me.

i also applaud my physio therapist, who used to own her own vehicle seperate from her hubby - practical when she had to commute 1 hour a day, but now rides the subway and/or jogs/bikes to work so she ditched her ride. some folks are moving in the right direction for sure.

bdinger

*bow* thank you

Yeah, at this point NOT owning one is financially impractical. When my soon-to-be-stepdaughter starts Kindergarten later in the month I will be ferrying her to school two days a week. I'd love to do it on the bike, but her mother chose a (very very very very good) school that is probably 6 miles from work, and 4 miles from her daycare. So I would be looking at around a 16 mile commute over my lunch hour, which would be seriously pushing it.

With the woman working and going to school for the next several years, it will be hard for me to be completely "car free", so I'm enjoying my "one day a week" plan as long as I can. She does understand, and HEAVILY supports my biking habit, so whatever she can do to help keep me out of the truck she does. It's really nice to have that support.

I also make full use of any vehicle trip I have to take. Today I need to take a work vehicle to pick up some faulty hardware, so I planned that trip to be right before my lunch hour. There is a grocery store in between the location of the hardware, my home, and work. So I'll hit up the grocery store to restock on Gatorade, Soda, Milk, and other items I don't like carrying on the bike. Sure it will eat up most of my lunch hour, but maybe I can now avoid driving on Saturday, or at least reduce the Saturday driving for this week.

But yeah, I applaud everyone I see who starts living "car lite". I've been encouraging my family members to do it, dunno how far I'll get, but who knows .

mjwarner

Of course you're car free if you rent occasionally.
It's genius. After I get rid of my ridicuolously (sp.) expensive VW (anyone interested in an '03 Passat?) I plan on renting frequently for weekend escapes and trips to see family.
I figure I can rent about a week a month and break even to owning.
You can't go wrong w/ occasional renting - i feel like all of the people in the car-free forum are GENIUS!