TV and the auto industry
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Originally Posted by Chris L
Personally I'm more confused by the belief that TV failing would necessarily be a bad thing. Can someone clarify that for me please?
Aaron
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
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Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#27
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Originally Posted by wahoonc
Government will never let it happen...
As I said before, it won't disappear because people will still watch cheaply produced television anyway, so there will always be profits to be had in the industry. The point I was making is that TV could come and go and I wouldn't care either way. The one decent program in Australian television was axed a couple of weeks ago, and even then I rarely had time to watch it anyway.
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
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Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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Originally Posted by wahoonc
Government will never let it happen...remember George Orwell's 1984 FWIW I grew up in a home with no television and seldom watch it now. There are some great shows out there on the specialty channels like Discovery and History but the rest is still a vast waste land...maybe we need a Bicycle Channel...24/7 Bike Porn
Aaron
Aaron
The few times I've been over at a friends house and seen Discovery and History channels the message has been weirdly inaccurate. The topics might be interesting in themselves but the show producers needed to gussy up the presentation with falsehoods. The book about Four Reasons to eliminate TV mentioned earlier speculates on why this happens. A bicycle channel would have the same flaws. I'd like to video my daily bike riding through the city to show my car dependent friends but how could it convey any useful information? The images and sounds especially as captured on a helmet mounted camera are such a small fraction of the experience, especially the experience compared to the same route done in a car, that I fear it would give a false impression. As the images swing around with my head turning the viewer would have no clue as to why unless I tried to verbalize "Check left, hold, go, push, lean, brake stand..." and I can't talk that fast and don't talk as I ride anyway. On a long ride in the country the viewer would be bored because the TV can't share the sense of tranquility nor immersion. The footage would have to be edited with quick changing scenes to hold the viewer's attention, and then it would be the same fraud seen on Discovery and History and the car commercials.
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I work in television, too, for a big company that sponsors a bike racing team.
The OP's question is interesting - what would happen to tv if a huge segment of ad revenue disappeared?
Don't forget that commercial breaks are becoming a smaller and smaller fraction of the ads you see on TV. Product placement is the way to go. If you think there are a lot of :30 car commercials, try counting the number of brand new cars with grille logos prominently placed you see right in the programs. Those Hummers they drive in CSI, the suv's they get in "the amazing race"... In fact, that's one reason why reality television is so popular right now. Easy to place products.
Remember also that you are not the customer when you watch TV. You are the product. Your attention is being sold to the advertiser, who is the customer. The advertiser pays, the networks sell... you.
If car companies pulled advertising out of television, I think a lot of cable networks would go out of business, but TV would survive. Some other industry would take up the slack.
The OP's question is interesting - what would happen to tv if a huge segment of ad revenue disappeared?
Don't forget that commercial breaks are becoming a smaller and smaller fraction of the ads you see on TV. Product placement is the way to go. If you think there are a lot of :30 car commercials, try counting the number of brand new cars with grille logos prominently placed you see right in the programs. Those Hummers they drive in CSI, the suv's they get in "the amazing race"... In fact, that's one reason why reality television is so popular right now. Easy to place products.
Remember also that you are not the customer when you watch TV. You are the product. Your attention is being sold to the advertiser, who is the customer. The advertiser pays, the networks sell... you.
If car companies pulled advertising out of television, I think a lot of cable networks would go out of business, but TV would survive. Some other industry would take up the slack.
#31
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Very interesting discussion. I wonder how commerical-free television fits into all this. For instance, HBO has some of the very best programming and series on TV (The Wire, Deadwood, documentaries, etc), but it is commercial free (I've seen some product placement, but much less than on network TV).
My argument about TV has always been this: It's like any other media - the form of media itself isn't that important, but rather the quality of the product is. Yes, there quite a bit of mindless TV, but there is also plenty of mindless drivel in the form of books (if you check the best-sellers list, it's mostly sh.it). So how is crappy reading material any different from crappy television? And what about all the ads in magazines? I subscribe to National Geographic, and it features abundant auto ads (many for SUVs and other inefficient off-road vehicles). To me it seems ironic/hypocritical for an environmentally related publication to obtain so much revenue from auto advertising.
My argument about TV has always been this: It's like any other media - the form of media itself isn't that important, but rather the quality of the product is. Yes, there quite a bit of mindless TV, but there is also plenty of mindless drivel in the form of books (if you check the best-sellers list, it's mostly sh.it). So how is crappy reading material any different from crappy television? And what about all the ads in magazines? I subscribe to National Geographic, and it features abundant auto ads (many for SUVs and other inefficient off-road vehicles). To me it seems ironic/hypocritical for an environmentally related publication to obtain so much revenue from auto advertising.
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Originally Posted by same time
I work in television, too, for a big company that sponsors a bike racing team.
The OP's question is interesting - what would happen to tv if a huge segment of ad revenue disappeared?
Don't forget that commercial breaks are becoming a smaller and smaller fraction of the ads you see on TV. Product placement is the way to go. If you think there are a lot of :30 car commercials, try counting the number of brand new cars with grille logos prominently placed you see right in the programs. Those Hummers they drive in CSI, the suv's they get in "the amazing race"... In fact, that's one reason why reality television is so popular right now. Easy to place products.
Remember also that you are not the customer when you watch TV. You are the product. Your attention is being sold to the advertiser, who is the customer. The advertiser pays, the networks sell... you.
If car companies pulled advertising out of television, I think a lot of cable networks would go out of business, but TV would survive. Some other industry would take up the slack.
The OP's question is interesting - what would happen to tv if a huge segment of ad revenue disappeared?
Don't forget that commercial breaks are becoming a smaller and smaller fraction of the ads you see on TV. Product placement is the way to go. If you think there are a lot of :30 car commercials, try counting the number of brand new cars with grille logos prominently placed you see right in the programs. Those Hummers they drive in CSI, the suv's they get in "the amazing race"... In fact, that's one reason why reality television is so popular right now. Easy to place products.
Remember also that you are not the customer when you watch TV. You are the product. Your attention is being sold to the advertiser, who is the customer. The advertiser pays, the networks sell... you.
If car companies pulled advertising out of television, I think a lot of cable networks would go out of business, but TV would survive. Some other industry would take up the slack.
"The Medium is the message."
I work in tv also. Sucks don't it?
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Originally Posted by AlanK
Yes, there quite a bit of mindless TV, but there is also plenty of mindless drivel in the form of books (if you check the best-sellers list, it's mostly sh.it). So how is crappy reading material any different from crappy television?
The one that really surprised me a few years ago was the questions on Jeapordy! and other game shows. All for sale. Clever.
Well, I'd love to argue weather this is bad for society or not, but I can't wait to ride home on my Specialized Allez, which I love and was a great value.
#34
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Originally Posted by same time
There's product placement in those bestsellers, now, too. Flip through a romance novel and look for brand names - you wouldn't believe.
The one that really surprised me a few years ago was the questions on Jeapordy! and other game shows. All for sale. Clever.
The one that really surprised me a few years ago was the questions on Jeapordy! and other game shows. All for sale. Clever.
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I find this argument weak. Cycling and video are not incompatible. Video should be able to tell an interesting story about bicycles or cycling. The real issue with video and cycling is the support required on the video end, sound, camera, lighting, script, etc. The single person with a video camera is going to have a much harder job trying to make the video interesting, which is not to say that it could not be done.
In any case the scenery, well composed shots of cyclists, camping at the end of the day, interviews with the public and participants all woven together should make for ideal material.
In any case the scenery, well composed shots of cyclists, camping at the end of the day, interviews with the public and participants all woven together should make for ideal material.
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Originally Posted by AlanK
....
Yes, there quite a bit of mindless TV, but there is also plenty of mindless drivel in the form of books (if you check the best-sellers list, it's mostly sh.it). So how is crappy reading material any different from crappy television? ...
Yes, there quite a bit of mindless TV, but there is also plenty of mindless drivel in the form of books (if you check the best-sellers list, it's mostly sh.it). So how is crappy reading material any different from crappy television? ...
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Originally Posted by gwd
There is a huge difference. Where to begin? People don't have perfect memories. You can put a book down and pick it up. You can re-read a sentance later to make sure you understand what the author said or to more fully appreciate the author's use of language. You can stop at any point and think about what the author is trying to say and if it is true to your own experience. With TV and movies you can't control the flow rate and don't have time to filter the true from the false. Consider your post, I came back to it and thought about your question. Re read it to see if I had anything to say about your question. I pulled the one thing I thought I could address from the rest. If it had been in a TV show the thoughts would come directly into my brain and be on to new thoughts before I would have time to process anything. Even with poor writing you can get something out of it. There is a guy who writes crappy books (in my opinion) about DC. I've read several of his books because I like the way he trys to accurately depict the city and the various neighborhoods and people who live here. With reading you can filter stuff out and read for what you are trying to get out of the writing.
And reading goes at the speed of my mind
Aaron
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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Originally Posted by gwd
There is a huge difference. Where to begin? People don't have perfect memories. You can put a book down and pick it up. With TV and movies you can't control the flow rate and don't have time to filter the true from the false.
A number of years ago, I began to notice that a number of people I knew didn't have TV. And all of them were what I would categorize as very intelligent. I thought it was an interesting trend. Stupid people weren't rejecting TV, intelligent people were.
Now I'm back to watching TV. Actually I was ordered to watch TV by my boss on the basis that as Creative Director for a company that creates advertising systems for broadcasters, I should be aware of what ads are looking like to keep the artwork I create current.
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Originally Posted by oystercatcher
I find this argument weak. Cycling and video are not incompatible. Video should be able to tell an interesting story about bicycles or cycling. The real issue with video and cycling is the support required on the video end, sound, camera, lighting, script, etc. The single person with a video camera is going to have a much harder job trying to make the video interesting, which is not to say that it could not be done.
In any case the scenery, well composed shots of cyclists, camping at the end of the day, interviews with the public and participants all woven together should make for ideal material.
In any case the scenery, well composed shots of cyclists, camping at the end of the day, interviews with the public and participants all woven together should make for ideal material.
What I find bizarre about TV watchers is how they believe the TV when it contradicts their own real world experience. When the attacks on Sept. 11 2001 occured I saw several examples of this. I was riding past the pentagon when it was attacked. When I got to the customers site about 1/2 hour later a woman burst out the front door saying that someone had flown a plane into the capitol and someone had detonated a bomb at the state department. I knew this woman had a nice office with a view of the capitol so I believed her. I went to her office to get a look. There she had a TV in the corner. From her chair in her office she could see the TV and the capitol dome without really needing to turn her head. Someone on the TV had said something about the capitol building being attacked and she believed it over the fact of the sight of the capitol still standing and no smoke or anything.
The person who posted saying that people who reject TV are smart may be wrong. Another possiblility which goes along with what my mother's doctor said about TV viewing hastening brain dysfunction - maybe it causes brain dysfunction.
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Originally Posted by gwd
~snip~
The person who posted saying that people who reject TV are smart may be wrong. Another possiblility which goes along with what my mother's doctor said about TV viewing hastening brain dysfunction - maybe it causes brain dysfunction.
The person who posted saying that people who reject TV are smart may be wrong. Another possiblility which goes along with what my mother's doctor said about TV viewing hastening brain dysfunction - maybe it causes brain dysfunction.
Actually I think it may be a combination of the two... I KNOW that my IQ suffers if I watch more than 1/2 an episode of Jerry Springer a year I also wonder if there is a socio-economic factor in it too, ala smoking...
Aaron
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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I've been without a TV for 3 years now. I feel less anxious, less stupid, I read more, and my critical thinking skills are sharper. Oh, and my housemates and I actually converse. I like the changes.
#42
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Originally Posted by Roody
But have you noticed that about half of the car commercials on TV have a bike somewhere in them? Watch for it.
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Originally Posted by oystercatcher
I find this argument weak. Cycling and video are not incompatible. Video should be able to tell an interesting story about bicycles or cycling. The real issue with video and cycling is the support required on the video end, sound, camera, lighting, script, etc. The single person with a video camera is going to have a much harder job trying to make the video interesting, which is not to say that it could not be done.
In any case the scenery, well composed shots of cyclists, camping at the end of the day, interviews with the public and participants all woven together should make for ideal material.
In any case the scenery, well composed shots of cyclists, camping at the end of the day, interviews with the public and participants all woven together should make for ideal material.
#44
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The now defunct LBS chain I used to work for in the '90s did have a commercial spot on TV. I don't remember the exact content but it was really stupid. The end of the commercial had an old man riding a bike really REALLY slow. Nothing wrong with that but the ad was as boring as stale crackers. They had an excellent opportunity to promote cycling as a fun exciting activity and ruined it. Idiots! And look where they're at now!
A 24/7 bicycle channel would be a GREAT idea! Surely with all the different aspects of cycling (just like here on BF) there should be no problem providing content.
A 24/7 bicycle channel would be a GREAT idea! Surely with all the different aspects of cycling (just like here on BF) there should be no problem providing content.
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Originally Posted by gwd
The person who posted saying that people who reject TV are smart may be wrong.
#46
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
All the people that I know who removed TV from their life are well above average.
#47
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Originally Posted by gwd
There is a huge difference. Where to begin? People don't have perfect memories. You can put a book down and pick it up. You can re-read a sentance later to make sure you understand what the author said or to more fully appreciate the author's use of language. You can stop at any point and think about what the author is trying to say and if it is true to your own experience. With TV and movies you can't control the flow rate and don't have time to filter the true from the false. Consider your post, I came back to it and thought about your question. Re read it to see if I had anything to say about your question. I pulled the one thing I thought I could address from the rest. If it had been in a TV show the thoughts would come directly into my brain and be on to new thoughts before I would have time to process anything. Even with poor writing you can get something out of it. There is a guy who writes crappy books (in my opinion) about DC. I've read several of his books because I like the way he trys to accurately depict the city and the various neighborhoods and people who live here. With reading you can filter stuff out and read for what you are trying to get out of the writing.
Some forms of literature can create unrealistic perceptions the way TV can. For instance I know many females who read romance novels who develop unrealistic expectations/standards for a male suitor (he's smart, sensitive, athletic, brave, tidy - all wrapped in a single person, which almost never happens). So ultimately I still think it boils down to the quality of the material on the medium, rather than the medium itself. The two major problems with TV are lack of quality programming, and gratuitous advertising: but these an be avoided if you borrow (library) DVDs of quality series rather than watch them on TV commercial TV.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I assume "above average" means sharing your beliefs and/or your lifestyle.
#49
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Originally Posted by wahoonc
Government will never let it happen...remember George Orwell's 1984 FWIW I grew up in a home with no television and seldom watch it now. There are some great shows out there on the specialty channels like Discovery and History but the rest is still a vast waste land...maybe we need a Bicycle Channel...24/7 Bike Porn
Aaron
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Last edited by dynodonn; 12-25-06 at 08:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
Like many assumptions, it's so very wrong. I should have been more specific. I meant above average in intelligence.