heywood

Looks like the gas prices are now being reflected in the high prices of oil. Outside of demand going down due to it's being unaffordable for trips to the local mall and the 'Quickie Mart' it is really begining to look like the 1970's, early '80's all over again except the price won't drop since that was caused by an 'embargo' and not the supply & demand problems of today.

Any comments? I've noticed on CNBC they're starting to 'freak out' already..

Newspaperguy

With slow to moderate fuel price increases, motorists just grumble but nothing really changes. When prices escalate rapidly or when fuel becomes less readily available, there are all sorts of methods of coping.

In the 1970s, the fuel price jumps and shortages led to the popularity of compact and subcompact cars which remained popular for a good 10 to 15 years. During World War II when fuel rationing was in place, there were some simple and small home-built vehicles which got phenomenal fuel economy. Fuel price hikes in the last few years have prompted some motorists to go with Smart cars, hybrids or other ultra-efficient vehicles and, if prices continue to rise, so will the popularity of such vehicles.

bmclaughlin807

kf5nd

Prices increases are one thing; shortages leading to NO GAS are another.

A fuel-efficient car with an empty tank is just as dead as an H2 with an empty tank.

jonathan180iq

Well said K5fnd.

I've kept personal gas price logs over the last year.

Here are some numbers to think about.

Between January 29th and April 2nd, noticed fuel prices increased 55cents per gallon. ($1.95-$2.49)
Between April 2nd and October 5th, noticed fuel prices peaked at a 50 cent increase but averaged and closed out the year with an 11cent increase. ($2.49-$2.99, avg=$2.60)

Between October 5th and November 7th, prices increased steadily from $2.55-$2.65-$2.75. Yesterday was the yearly high at $3.09

Note: These numbers are only a personal sample of noticed gas prices.

jonathan180iq

I wonder, in each of those cases, how many people were promted to switch over to the bicycle.

gwd

Where I lived during the gas shortage in the 1970s, people pulled their ten speeds out and used them. It was noticeable for a short time. Then they stopped biking and returned to their cars.

Artkansas 

I was in L.A. during that time. Not a single person that I knew of switched to using a bike because of unavailability of gas. They all preferred to line up in mile-long gas lines. Some people did trade in their LTD for a Pinto though.

same time

When gas prices go up, retail sales seem to go down. The report today was "sluggish" retail sales for October.

Has anyone else noticed that stores and malls have started the Christmas season early this year? Catalogs were in the mail the week of Halloween, xmas decorations are up in stores. I wonder if the big retailers think gas prices will continue to climb through the holiday season. If gas hit 4 dollars a gallon the weekend before xmas, that would be trouble.

Out of everyone I know who drives, nobody is changing their driving habits or thinking about getting a new car.

jonathan180iq

My mother finally told me, after 2 years of my talking about it, that she is thinking about trading in her Tahoe for something more fuel efficient. Finally.

zoltani

There are already a few threads about oil, so i didn't want to start a new one. I would like to show an extra cost of the oil industry.



A cargo ship hit the bay bridge and spilled oil into the bay
Story here: https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../BAD8T8PLU.DTL


How do we measure the cost of environmental damage such as this?

wheel

Yes but it is only 50 pounds a barrel and what 69 Euros.

It is our dollar, the same one which is in debt for 9 trillion dollars.
That is the real freak out.

58,000 gallons wow, =(

mgmoore7

In many cases, unless you just care about conserving gas (and that is a ok reason), the extra cost of a hybrid or replacing a current vehicle with a more fuel efficient vehicle ends up costing more $.

mgmoore7

If I did not work 30 miles from work with virtually no reasonalbly safe method to get here via bike, I would be biking to work for the exersize and gas savings.

jonathan180iq

Yeah.
I didn't want to fill up the post with information but she was looking at replacing it with a used car and actually making a profit in the process. In the long run, from the purchase point forward, her environmental impact would significantly decrease.

jonathan180iq

Could you carpool to a closer/safer location?

mgmoore7

Good for her. I just get really frustrated with all the media buzz and selling tactics that lead people to believe they will be saving money when buying a hybrid or sell a perfectly good car that gets 20mpg to buy one that gets 30mpg and use that as a major motivation. The need to do the numbers. Most of the time, they don't add up to what most people think they do. I hope it happens one day but not now.

I did read today that GM's mid size car (Malibu) will be available as a hybrid and it will "only" cost $1300 more than the standard. That would still take longer than most people keep their cars to recoup the extra cost and that is just for initial cost. I don't think many think about battery replacement and other repair issues that may arise and be more expensive once the warranty runs out.

jonathan180iq

People often forget about the effects of oil shipment. The Exxon valdez was carrying a 7 day supply of oil.


https://www.conservationgiscenter.org...ages/spill.jpg

mgmoore7

That is a good question. I have not pondered car pooling along with riding. I have investigated doing a partial ride with going on the bus but my office is in a suburb and I live in a suburb on the other side of town. The bus system just does not work out for me. I could get here but it would be an hour on the bus and probably an hour on the bike. That would not be any fun. Likely I would have the same issues with carpooling and biking. There is no decent route to my office except for the interstate and I just can't see myself riding on the interstate.

I have pondered car pooling with a coworker but he is a very late riser. I am normally at the office by 7:30 to 8 and leave at 5-5:30. He is here by 9am and leaves at 6:30. That schedule just won't work for me and mine won't work for him. We have discussed doing it a few times a week but?

cosmo starr

when cheap easy to obtain fuel passes $100/barrel: more environmentally destructive sources like tar-sands, oil shale, arctic exploration and coal gasification become more popular.

adgrant

The Malibu is one of those phony Hybrids (basically it just cuts the engine at stoplights and uses an electric motor to start the car going again).

If you are going to spend the money on a Hybrid, get a real one. The Prius is probably still the best choice for saving gas.

wrafl

It's all talk and publicity but GM has so far not delivered. They killed the electric vehicle which would have made a serious impact on the auto industry. Do you see the relationship of the two industries, oil companies reaped record profits while the domestic auto industry suffer from record lossess.

wahoonc

Nothing new...they have been in bed together since the 30's if not earlier.

Aaron

Sparky005s

The truth is that, unless there is a complete socio-economic collapse, and the Western world is reduced to Third World status, the bicycle will NEVER be the preferred mode of transportation. The reason is simple:

Cycling is not easy.

Bicycling is not physically easy, because it is exercise, and the rider is exposed to the elements. It's not psychologicallly easy because the car is a status symbol. A nice vehicle is a 2 ton monument that says you are a financial and social success. With all the reasons to bicycle commute, people cling to their driving habit. No matter that they have to work so much more to pay for the car. Not having one is simply too emotionally stressful.

It makes me happy to see anyone on a bike. The more, the better, but it's not the environmental or economic solution for the masses, and I don't know what is.

wahoonc

I agree that only a few people will give up the car unless we do have total economic collapse or fuel becomes totally unavailable. What I think you will see are people cutting out longer trips so they can drive the few miles to work. Some people will ditch the car in favor of motor cycles/scooters/mopeds, others may car pool, more will use mass transit if it becomes available, but the only the smallest percentage will switch to bikes.

Aaron