tsl

I thought car-lite was about how and how often you use the car, not the type of car it is.

Just as I wouldn't classify as car-free anyone who rides around in other people's cars. For example, children and teens who don't own cars but are chauffeured everywhere by car aren't car-free by virtue of their non-ownership alone. It's usage (or more accurately, non-usage) that defines car-free-ness.

So, sure, I'd call the Smart a lite car, and applaud anyone who replaced an SUV with it. But owning one doesn't make you car-lite. That depends on how often you travel without the damned car.

Juha

True dat. Actually, I've been thinking if I ever buy a car, it will be a small station wagon or something similar. Why? Because whenever I need a car, it's either because I'm hauling some bulky stuff, or I'm going somewhere with a group of people (who don't want to ride). A Smart doesn't help much there.

I once drove a Fourtwo around for a couple of days. It's funny how it seems like a normal car when you sit inside - until you look back. At a traffic light you look in the mirror and see a front grill where you'd expect to see a back seat. It can be a bit unnerving, especially if the front grill behind you is attached to a bus.

VW Polo and Seat Ibiza diesels get the same or even slightly better mileage than the Smart cdi diesel (about 72MPG). Mini Cooper, Toyota Yaris and Skoda Fabia diesels get close to that. And those are cars with room for 4-5 persons plus some luggage. OK, the Mini is a two person car that has a padded luggage department with seatbelts.

--J

redspoke

The auto industry can kiss my chiseled arse!
They only care about making oil companies more money.

That Chevy Volt. Bah! It sounds good but the word before Volt is Chevy... Nah!

The next car I buy is going to be 100% electric and 100% affordable.

$100,000 2-seat Tesla roadster... Bah! I have kids and I occasionally need to buy groceries.

It's going to be a long time methinks.

This topic pushes my "word salad" button.

Allen

They are coming. Slowly but they are on the way.
https://www.aptera.com/
$30,000.00 or less

Mr York

Love the Aptera! My wife and I want to get the electric version.

smurfy

That looks like a UFO!

donrhummy

Click on "mobility" and then either "city car" or the scooter link.
https://cities.media.mit.edu/

donrhummy

That's not even remotely true. We could easily make cars that are safe and get plenty of miles to the gallon. Aside from the obvious electric cars, there have actually been cars built in the past that got 100's (plural) of miles to the gallon but they never mass produced them because they made more money with the crappier cars. (See the contest that I believe Citgo? held in the 1970's, a car got 379 mpg -- albeit going 35 mph)

condiment

I addressed that. Why don't you reread the second part of my quoted post and give comprehending what I wrote a shot?

There are two major obstacles to great fuel economy: features and performance. Go ahead and spend countless millions in R&D building a car which gets 400mpg, but if it takes 2 minutes to accelerate to a top speed of 35mph, nobody will buy it and the effort will have been wasted. The consumer demands an auto which gets them where they want to go safely, comfortably, and quickly. These demands will never change, and rising fuel costs will only add a fourth demand: economy, which will be met with hybrid-electric autos.

mfennell

sigh. And they're keeping solar cars from us too, right?

"They" (whoever they are) never mass produced those Magic Cars because they are not even remotely road worthy as condiment alluded to. Nevermind "features", a modern car has all kinds of safety and emissions requirements that are at odds with maximum mileage. The itty-bitty Smart STILL weighs 1800lbs in US trim!

As an interesting aside: if gas is $3/gallon, an all-electric Tesla costs in electricity use (in CA, at least) about what a 70mpg car would cost in gas. Tesla themselves claim an "equivalent" mileage of 55mpg vs. gasoline when you factor in all the inefficiencies of transporting the energy (electricity or gasoline) around.

Lunch is still not free.

sykerocker 

Part of the car light shopping problem is that the government is seeing to it that I cannot possibly buy what I'm looking for: A three door hatchback, three cylinder engine, five speed transmission, capable of giving me mid to high 40's in gasoline mileage - which puts it up there with my two motorcycles.

And I've owned the car in the past (bought it for my live in girlfriend at the time): a 1996 Geo Metro.

It didn't have air bags, weighed a good 500-1000 pounds less than anything equivalent nowadays. Now you're talking to a guy who spends 85% of his time in transit on either a motorcycle or bicycle. I don't care about airbags, automatic stability control, etc. But I'm not allowed to buy a new (or newish) car without them.

Yeah, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you.

cerewa

One of the things we really need is electric bikes being used as alternatives to the car. Cut the vehicle weight to 40 pounds and suddenly 500mpg becomes possible.

zoltani

So now i can't even take a ride when offered? What about renting a car for a weekend get away?
Oh well, guess i am not car free....

You might be more comfortable without that giant stick in your @ss

acroy

I saw a Smart car up in North Dallas last December! they are coming. They are pretty popular in Europe, though over there, they are "premium" small cars.

We think $3+/gal gas is expensive - yet the Euros are paying double to triple that, and still, most everyone who can buy a car, buys one. Major Euro cities take draconian steps to discourage car ownership/use, some cities have decent public transportation, yet many big Euro cities are more clogged than the US! Car ownership is still obviously an ideal, a goal, a big part of leading a "full" life, to a lot of folks. It represents freedom, sex, individuality, blah blah. It likely will not change soon.

Cheers

TheKingFiphtin

My 91 honda crx gets over 40mpg and it's a blast to drive. It is 2/3 trunk so I can haul tons of stuff with it. It even has a trailer hitch and Ive hauled my motorcycle on a trailer with it. I like the smart car, but I'm going to wait for an all electric before I replace the 'rex

qualia8

my '89 geo metro averaged 49 mpg. great little car, but loud, cheaply built, and definitely not safe.

my 2006 civic hybrid is a Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle, has an automatic transmission, has anti-lock brakes, airbags galore, maxes out all safety tests, comfortably seats five, and gets mid-forties per gallon in real-world driving. it's dead quiet at 80 mph, handles securely, and feels honda-tight. it's an ASTONISHING advance in technology. from what i've read, the toyota camry hybrid and the prius are better in almost every way.

i expect my next car purchase, at least a decade away, will be a plug-in diesel-electric hybrid burning bio-diesel and using a mix of batteries and ultra-capacitors. but for now, if everyone just switched over from (real world) 25 mpg SUVs and cars to (real world) 40 mpg hybrids, we would *massively* cut emissions (not only carbon, but pollutants as well) and foreign oil dependence. and what would the sacrifice be? practically nothing!

i applaud nyc's switch to hybrid taxis. what a difference that will make!

long-term changes, and lifestyle changes, such as car-sharing, increased bike commuting, public transit, must ALSO happen. but switching to a hybrid, not even a plug-in, but just a regular hybrid, is something everyone can do as soon as their next vehicle purchase. why 90% of new cars sales are NOT hybrids is a complete mystery to me.

electric-assist, fully-faired recumbants like the Go-One are sweet too...

Mr York

Then why are you still here?!?! Shouldn't you be in the hospital or something? ;-)

qualia8

impeccable logic. i guess there's no point in health insurance (or insurance of any kind) if you haven't used it.

safety is about RISK, and the risk of death in the Geo was high. I'm fortunate I was not in an accident. That doesn't make the Geo any safer.

Mr York

Then why ride a bike?

qualia8

i wouldn't ride a bike on superhighways with SUV traffic going 80. but it felt a little like that in my Geo Metro...



anyway, the broader point was that the engineering in the new hybrids goes way, way beyond the efficient cars of the past. if MPG were the goal, regardless of safety and emissions and performance, it would be easy to build a 65 mpg hybrid.

Mr York

I wonder if they make a loud car version of a bike bell hehehe

sykerocker 

That's more a comment on social expectations of an automobile nowdays, than a comment on the car itself. Back when it was new, the Geo was every bit as safe as any other compact on the road. And of course it was cheaply built, it was one of the least expensive new cars available on the market back then. You don't get Lexus quality unless you're willing to pay for the Lexus.

Gawd, we're nannying ourselves to death anymore!

BarracksSi

"As safe as" unsafe doesn't make a Metro "safe", though.

Which is safer, a Volvo station wagon that's fifteen years old, or a newer, smaller Renault?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I

A lot of it is the name, I'm becoming more and more convinced... but yes, to build a car with quality parts means that you have to throw away the parts that weren't perfect to begin with, and you've gotta pay for the production of those parts somehow.

Funny how rules do that.

jetta_mike

Not so. A fully electric car charged from a coal power plant is still cleaner than the most efficient fossil fueled vehicle per km of use.

qualia8

The Geo was great. I bought it for $3.5k with 20k miles and drove it until it died around 100k miles. If everyone else drove Geo Metros, it would be wonderful still. But traffic is CRAZY now.

I saw the Geo up on the stand at the shop. It's a glorified bike. I can only imagine what would happen with Metro vs Hummer. Civic vs Hummer is still a losing proposition, but I've got better odds of walking away.

My point was just that all of the engineering advances allow the possibility of Metro-like cars that get 60+ mpg or cars like the Civic Hybrid (mine) or Prius that get mid-forties and are PZEV, safe, fast, reliable, comfortable. If everyone drove these cars, we could produce all of our oil domestically and slow global warming dramatically, with virtually NO tradeoff in terms of convenience, safety etc.

Why is this controversial? Sheesh!