JeffS

We seem to have left them all back in the 80's (or early 90's). Noone will build them now because they'll cut into the huge profit margins on their hybrids.

murphstahoe

What's amusing is that Joe Blow can sift through the ads and find the same item for $1 less at Lowe's compared to the local hardware store, and will drive 15 miles extra round trip to save the $1, and not factor in the $1.50 or more he spent on gasoline. The car is so ingrained that X amount of dollars spent on gas is sort of a sunk cost and not factored into people's economics. Yet the math is suddenly simple when comparing the cost of a bus fare vs the gas spent driving. Of course at that point a new false economy rears its ugly head, the bus fare is the "all in" total but the driver does not amortize the depreciation on their car in the driving cost. Those things only readily become apparent when you sell the car, in my viewpoint, and your bank account skyrockets.

JeffS

Makes sense to me. How many people who own a car actually consider selling it so they can ride the bus. The first thought is always going to be to park the car and try to save money doing something else.

Someone considering selling the car has already found an alternate means they're REALLY happy with, or is REALLY broke.

Machka 

OK, I had no idea how litres compared with gallons, so I just looked it up, and it appears that 1 gallon is approx. 3.8 litres (does that sound right)?

Right now, we're paying $1.16/litre which would then equal $4.40 a gallon. So Canada has already gone over the $4/gallon mark and most people are still driving.

On the news today they announced that gas prices had, or were in the process of going up right now. In Calgary the prices are at $1.20/litre ($4.56/gallon), and in Halifax they are $1.28/litre ($4.86/gallon). And then they announced something which I had already heard some time ago ... that gas prices will very likely hit $1.40/litre ($5.32) over the summer.

I had already used that $1.40 figure in my calculations of whether or not commuting by car to the University next semester would be cheaper than moving near the University ... and commuting by car is still the least expensive option.

Neil_B

[QUOTE=Buglady;6525846]
(And he cannot see the irony in driving 5 km to the gym in order to spend 30 minutes on a stationary bike... )
[QUOTE]

But don't you see, by driving to the gym he can ride a bike far away from those evil cars!

rajman

How does your calculation work compared to car free (I recognise that you may be relying on a car at home, or just happen to have one lying around). I'm just wondering if the cost of moving to higher rent digs is compared to staying put and obtaining a reliable vehicle is still more expensive.

I was car free/car light in Calgary for two years, and it was quite nice - and great for my conditioning. Obtaining a car from car-free status would definitely have broken the bank (even used cars can cost $10 k!).

Machka 

If I were to completely move to Edmonton (and not return home on weekends, or my days off), my rent for a room would be at least $425/month (and as much as $600/month, depending where I went).

If I were to drive in and out of Edmonton on the three days I have classes, my fuel costs at $1.40/litre would be $420/month.

(My car is paid for, except for insurance which is < $100/month) ... and I would want to return home on weekends for various reasons which would cost me about $100/month)

Roody

What happened to the congestion tax in Manhattan?

PDay

Exactly, that's what I think lots of people in this sub forum do not understand. Gas prices affect you even if you don't have a car, so the rationale of all the people here who want gas prices to go up in order to punish the SUV drivers is pretty dumb.

It affects us all.

elfich

Killed in Albany.

Machka 

Definitely!!

Much of our food is harvested with the use of some sort of machinery, which requires fuel ... fuel prices go up, it costs more to harvest the food, the growers charge more. The food in our grocery stores is delivered by truck, fuel prices go up, the delivery prices go up, so the food prices go up and up.

If your product is being manufactured, delivering all the bits and pieces to the factory to make the product requires fuel, and sometimes manufacturing requires fuel ... so again, the price of goods goes up. I work parttime in a retail store, and we have people who complain that our prices are higher this year than last ... well, yes.

Because most of our goods have to be delivered, harvested, manufactured, etc. pretty much everything we eat, wear, sit on, touch, work with, etc. etc. etc. has had fuel involved somewhere along the way. If fuel prices go through the roof ... so will the prices of everything else. Are we prepared to pay twice or three times or more for the food we eat and things we buy?

ericy

And even more importantly, if the economy tanks because the majority of people have set up lives for themselves where they "need" lots of fossil fuels, then you could end up getting laid off even though you ride a bicycle.

TiberiusBTkirk

in other words, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
I'm only eating 2 meals a day and as I said to a friend in jest
if I were in Jail I'll be getting 3 squares. so jail would be a step up for me.

Machka 

Right ... because if/when fuel prices go up, and the cost of goods threatens to go up, employers will be tempted to lay people off or keep wages low so that the cost of goods doesn't go up too much. So as ericy says, it won't matter if I walk to work or ride my bicycle to work, I could be the one being laid off ... because my employer can't afford the quantity of staff she has ... because the increased cost of the goods she is bringing in is eating up her budget ... and because she can't raise the prices of the goods in the store too much all at once or she'll scare off the customers.

Roody

I'm pretty sure that everybody--even me, and I AM pretty dumb-- realizes that gas prices affect us all.

And nobody wants prices to go up to punish SUV drivers. That's what Hell is for.

Roody

People will keep buying gas as the price goes up, because they believe that it's a necessity. That means they'll have less money to spend on other stuff that they don't need as much, like bike parts and granola bars. Since there will be less demand for those items, prices on them will go down. And that means those of us who understand that we don't have to buy gas will get our bike parts and granola bars a lot cheaper.

This sounds like a good thing to me.... But if they're nice to us we'll share!

Machka 

Because fuel is required to get the bike parts and granola bars to the stores, which raises the costs of those items, and because there may be fewer people buying those things because people have less disposable income, manufacturers may quit making them, or may make fewer of them, which will drive the price of any that are made up even further. And if the manufacturers decide to quit making them, or to make fewer of them, because the demand is down, they'll end up laying people off.

Neil_B

How do these bike parts and granola bars get to you in Lansing?

Roody

My point is that there are many pressures that determine the cost of goods, and those costs impact individuals in complex ways. There will be winners and losers as the cost of energy goes up. It's hard to predict, but I think it's more likely that carfree people will be winners, and people who are heavily dependent on cars will be losers.

I could be wrong, but that's how I'm playing it.

Machka 

Maybe, maybe not. The way I see it, if the fuel prices go up, everyone who is not directly involved in the fuel industry (making profits from the increased fuel prices) will be the losers.

Neil_B

Evasion noted. Thanks for playing.

Roody

There is no evasion. I've posted here dozens of times that there will be hardships for everyone from rising energy costs. I reserve most of my compassion for the poor people who, as always, will bear the brunt of the hardships.

I just get tired of the smug and obvious comments about "how do you get your bike parts and granola bars." Dudes--we all understand that carfree people will be hurt also. You can quit making that point now! Even my friend's 8 year old niece figured that out, but she only uses the Internet for Webkinz so she wasn't able to inform the world of her amazing discovery.

But really, don't you think us carfree people will probably suffer a little less than some other people? Is it so uncool to gloat a little about it here in the privacy of our own forum?

Neil_B

Straying away from your own words noted. Thanks for playing.

And yes, it IS uncool to gloat, especially since your scenario of lowered production (and, unmentioned but present, higher transportation costs) leading to lower prices for the consumer of bike parts seems highly unlikely to come to pass.

Neil_B

+1.

Platy

As gas prices go ever higher, I think people are more likely to see car free living as a rational response to economic conditions. Those who go car free this summer probably won't be treated as if they've suddenly lost their minds.