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Put your money where your mouth is--What's the dollar value of carfree/carlite?

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Put your money where your mouth is--What's the dollar value of carfree/carlite?

Old 01-22-09, 11:11 AM
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Roody
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Put your money where your mouth is--What's the dollar value of carfree/carlite?

Let's say you were unemployed and received two job offers:
--Job A pays more, but requires you to drive a car that you own to work.

--Job B pays less, but is welcoming and affirming of carfree people and bicycle commuters.
Which job would you take, if all else was equal? In dollars (or your country's currency), how much more would Job A have to pay for you to accept it? What's the reasoning behind your answer?
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Old 01-22-09, 11:50 AM
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Right now I think I'll just try to hang on to the one I've got.

In your hypothetical scenario, I'd probably go with job B. If they're nicer to bike commuters, they're probably nicer in other ways too.
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Old 01-22-09, 11:54 AM
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Job B.
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Old 01-22-09, 11:56 AM
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Well seeing how I am doing the same job now that I did with a car, the difference straight up job to job is about $12k per year in favor of the bicycle.

I am not going back to driving a car though, ever, my health is priceless.
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Old 01-22-09, 12:18 PM
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In a way I already made this choice. My last job had a car commute that was between 45 and 75 minutes long each way (depending on traffic). I just hated it! At the time I blamed the length of the commute for consuming my day.

Now I have a 45-75 minute commute on bike or bus. I look forward to it and dread the days I have to take my car. Looks like it was driving the car that I hated. Not surprising, these days my encounters with jerk drivers are about once a week. When I was driving 35 miles thru the city it was almost every day.
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Old 01-22-09, 12:55 PM
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I don't know about job, but I may be moving back with my parents for my last few years of University. My sister will be away for her first year, so her car will be available. They are worried about car use over the summer, so they are/will "force" me into getting another car. There is no way I can bike the complete distance from their place to work/class (20 miles + one way, mostly freeway) so I will take the bike to a local park with trail access and bike over to the express bus stop 2 miles away and take the bus in the morning and enjoy the longish (10-12 miles or less depending on where I start) ride back most days. Not ideal, but it may help me put enough money in the bank for a nice long bike tour when I graduate.
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Old 01-22-09, 01:36 PM
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Depends on the pay difference and reasoning for being required to drive. Say if you just need a car to drive around while you are at work you could own a car that you leave at work and still bike there.

To get me interested in job A the pay difference would have to be about 2,000 dollars per year. Right now I am car lite and pay 2500 dollars per year for insurance gas and repairs (which will go up as the car gets older). Including purchase price it comes out to about 4K per year. A second car would not cost as much because it is much cheaper per car to insure 2 cars.

So the financial marker is between 2-4K per year. I am also not including bike expenses in this calculation. I would buy most of it anyway and I spend very little on the extra wear and tear and equipment I need for commuting vs recreation.
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Old 01-22-09, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Foofy View Post
Job B.
How much more would they have to pay to make you take Job A?
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Old 01-22-09, 02:00 PM
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I'd take B.

I'm already car free, there you go.
As to how much they would have to pay me to take A?

+car
+insurance
+gas
+maintenance
+15k more a year
+at least one month off a year for touring/riding/screwing around-whatever.

That help any?
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Old 01-22-09, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Let's say you were unemployed and received two job offers:
Well, honestly, whether I could bike or not wouldn't enter the calculation at all.

The balance would be what did I do at the job vs the money. And what I get to do at the job will win every time. Two of my best jobs were ones that were too far to comfortably bicycle commute all the time. The third best one had a bike commute that went right through the center of a nature preserve. Woohoo!
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Old 01-22-09, 03:02 PM
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I'd like to say I would take job "B", but maybe not. After all, like everyone else, my convictions do have a price. I think I would seriously consider job "A" if I were to be bringing home at least an additional $1500 a month. Of course there are other considerations, too. Such as tangible and intangible benefits and fringe benefits.
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Old 01-22-09, 03:59 PM
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if $$$ was the top priority, i'd go with A. (or to re-phrase that, if i were broke)

but it ain't, so i'll go with B. and you know they'd be cooler people anyway. who wants to work somewhere that requires you to drive in? not i.
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Old 01-22-09, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ban guzzi View Post
I'd take B.

I'm already car free, there you go.
As to how much they would have to pay me to take A?

+car
+insurance
+gas
+maintenance
+15k more a year
+at least one month off a year for touring/riding/screwing around-whatever.

That help any
?
Finally somebody who will put a dollar amount on it. $15,000 plus expenses.

Not bad!
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Old 01-22-09, 04:09 PM
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Well, I'll be quiting my job (for which I need a vehicle), selling my car and going on a long bike tour until I find a job I really enjoy. I'm anticipating that I may earn ~20k less a year once I find something I enjoy. Biking to work will be a part of that. 20k may seem like a lot but I really don't like my current job.
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Old 01-22-09, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
Well, honestly, whether I could bike or not wouldn't enter the calculation at all.

The balance would be what did I do at the job vs the money. And what I get to do at the job will win every time. Two of my best jobs were ones that were too far to comfortably bicycle commute all the time. The third best one had a bike commute that went right through the center of a nature preserve. Woohoo
!
Ah but I sais all else was equal--the two jobs are equally fun, equivalent commutes, and so on. How much would they have to pay you to take Job A?
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Old 01-22-09, 04:32 PM
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All other things being equal? Assume they're in the same building, etc. I'd have to have $10,000/year more for A. $4000 for the cost of vehicle operation, $6000 for telling me how I can/can't get to work.
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Old 01-22-09, 04:49 PM
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Well I used to have a 35 mile round trip bike commute that I never minded too much. That would mean that if I had to drive a car to get to job A then it would have to be in the area of 50 miles or so round trip AND not link to public transit in anyway to make it bike able. So that would mean that I would be looking at loosing about 1-2 hours a day by having to drive in rush hour traffic which is also very dangerous in terms of car accidents, breathing in the stop and go traffic, stress, and not being able to cycle as much as I do. I would think that Job A would have to pay me at least twice as much as Job B, even then I would have to think about it.... I would consider moving closer to Job A so I could bike but then I would be somewhere that apparently has no mass transit which would be lame... Job B for me!
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Old 01-22-09, 05:15 PM
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Job A would require that I buy a car (wife and I share hers), so I'd have to make enough extra money at Job A to cover all the costs of owning that car (insurance, fuel, depreciation, repairs, etc). This car would be used almost exclusively for commuting--say 40 km round trip, or 10000 km/year. Reimbursement rates are typically $0.40/km, so that's $4000/year (and I would probably buy an older compact, so that's actually a realistic number). So I'd probably need about $6000 extra gross income to pay for the car.

If I wanted to maintain the amount of biking I would do by commuting to Job B, without cutting back on *other* recreation activities, I'd have to contract out a few home duties like lawn mowing, snow shoveling, renovating, etc. If I need to pay an average of $15/hour to buy back 5 hours/week (tradesmen charge way more than that, but take a lot less time than I would to complete the same amount of work), that's $75/week, or $3900/year, or again about another $6000 gross.

So, to have as much money, bike time, and leisure time as I would with Job B, Job A would have to pay $12000/year more.

In reality, I'd probably take Job A at $8000/year extra. I would ride the bike on weekends or after work, keep doing my home duties, have an extra $2000/year for bike schwag, and just have to spend 5 less hours/week on Bike Forums.
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Old 01-22-09, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Ah but I sais all else was equal--the two jobs are equally fun, equivalent commutes, and so on. How much would they have to pay you to take Job A?
What employers REQUIRE the employee to drive to the place of work, if a motor vehicle isn't required to perform the job?
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Old 01-22-09, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Let's say you were unemployed and received two job offers:
--Job A pays more, but requires you to drive a car that you own to work.

--Job B pays less, but is welcoming and affirming of carfree people and bicycle commuters.
Which job would you take, if all else was equal? In dollars (or your country's currency), how much more would Job A have to pay for you to accept it? What's the reasoning behind your answer?
When you get to be an older geezer like I am one thing you don't want to do is look back at your
life to see you sold it for money.

Instead look back at your kids faces 'cause you were home to see them and your wife's.
Look back that you had a job that paid just ok but you enjoyed more.
Look back that you slept well at night 'cause you were content with your life of.....enough.

As you can tell this choice for me is a no brainer......choose the one I would enjoy most that gave me
time to live my life.
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Old 01-22-09, 08:27 PM
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No job has made a hypocrite of me yet, why start now?
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Old 01-22-09, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What employers REQUIRE the employee to drive to the place of work, if a motor vehicle isn't required to perform the job?
It's a hypothetical situation. So you can think about what being carfree or carlight means to you in dollar terms.

If you want to.

But you probably don't.
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Old 01-22-09, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What employers REQUIRE the employee to drive to the place of work, if a motor vehicle isn't required to perform the job?
My experience is if the employer is very rigid in what they require -- particularly requiring something completely ridiculous -- I'm usually better off avoiding the situation. I'd probably accept the job at higher pay, then discover that it was a sweat job and quit...

I don't see money as a big determining factor in these situations. I think the better jobs-- situations more accepting of the employee's individualism -- pay better.
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Old 01-22-09, 11:39 PM
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I would go with job A

I would require at least a hundred grand a year and only work 4 days a week. (fantasy land)
then the three days I didn't work I would go with Job B

Then I only need to work about 3 years quit my job and then go on a very long tour for about five to ten years.
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Old 01-23-09, 01:49 AM
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I'd say B.
Reminds me of something I read recently.
"Let's say you were unemployed and received two job offers:
--Job A pays more, and allows you to drive to work.

--Job B pays so little, one is forced to ride a bicycle to work, and is less welcoming and affirming of the Single Driver Lifestyle."

Did you cross-post this in HummerForums?
Seriously, it's been so long since I've been a regular driver or passenger in a car, I now get nauseous if I'm ever in one. Seems I'm becoming 'car-tose' intolerant. I'd need 50G for A.
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