bragi

I can fully appreciate what you say about the advantages of car-free life. For many people, including myself, there's just no good reason to own a car. I live in a big city with tolerable public transportation, I live 3 miles from my job, and during the week I rarely need to go more than 10 miles from home. I use my bike or my feet for at least 90% of my trips, and the bus for about half of the remainder. The only reasons I keep the car are because it's paid for, it only costs me $100/mo to insure, fuel and maintain, and I'm too busy to get rid of it. (And sometimes it's nice to be able to leave town and go hiking in the mountains on short notice.)

For others, however, it's not about being soft, lazy or self-indulgent, so it's not quite fair to be too judgmental. If you have a job that requires you to transport hundreds of pounds of tools, or you're a struggling sales person with a huge territory, or you have multiple children who play select sports all over a metro area, or you have aged and infirm relatives, living totally car-free isn't very doable. Car-lite, on the other hand, is doable by pretty much everyone who lives in urban areas. It's a matter of degree, not either-or; it's not very productive to criticize people because they want to use their cars a lot less, but aren't ready or able to get rid of them entirely.

(By the way, don't roll your eyes at the parents with select-sports-playing kids. Some of those parents have kids with a good shot at scholarships, and at current tuition levels, that's not something you can pass up for the sake of dogmatic transportation choices....)

DirtRoadRunner

Car-lite is actually doable by many people living in rural areas. Case in point, I grew up in a rural area (80 miles from the nearest interstate, shopping mall, etc) but lived only 4 miles outside of a small town which had all of the basic neccessities needed for life (grocery store, some retail, pharmacy, etc - all within 1-2 miles of each other). While I did not get into the car-lite thing until moving to the city, it would have been even easeir there due to a lack of traffic, stoplights, and the minimal distances required to get to everything. For those who live <10 miles from work/groceries/etc, car lite would easily be doable, which would include the vast majority of people living in the rural area where I grew up.

Elkhound

I've been to Phoenix in July & August. Riding a bike in Phoenix during the summer seems like a good way to die of heat stroke! My ancestry is from the British Isles--I'm a pale & pasty person, and I'd burn to a crisp.

Elkhound

As for hauling lots of stuff around, that's why such things as bakfiesten, xtracycles, and trailers were invented.

harshbarj

I have had so many tell me that without a car you can't live in Omaha, ne. While true Omaha is in love with the motor vehicle, you don't NEED one. I get by just fine having never owned a motor vehicle.

sauerwald

This is why there was no drumming prior to 1900.

crazybikerchick

Still tricky with 15% grade hills...

crazybikerchick

I have a friend who is a drummer and has built a special bike for the purpose:

https://drumbent.com/trike.html

Sometimes its just a matter of some creativity.

zeppinger

Yes, however did people play the drums before the car was also invented? I mean, it was the very first musical instrument, ever!

wheel

As I said before your going to invest a lot of time getting around where I live. Having a job, family, and or kids is going to be real tough to hold onto car free. I am car lite right now.

Personally I would order my food from the store.

Pedaleur

For those who don't know the true meaning of, "begging the question," here's a case study for you.

storckm

The drums thing is interesting. I carry my violin on my bike every week, but it's a relatively small instrument. I could carry something larger in a trailer, but there are limits, and the more weight you're carrying, the less distance you can travel.
But all the same, drums, concert harps, double basses, and even pipe organs and grand pianos have been around a lot longer than cars.

billew

I have frequently taken my instruments to gigs by bicycle in fact I have always been carfree. I walk, use the bus or car pool with band mates if I don't play solo. After all aren't they already going to the gig anyway?
I could spend my life playing cover tunes in my tourist city and never use a car because it's on an island two miles wide and ten miles long.
I've never heard drummers whine about not lugging their drums in if they can use someone elses. And a good drummmer can make a fair kit sound great, a poor craftsman blames his tools.

Robert Foster

That was funny.
I will totally disagree about anyone leaving a good guitar, drum set, $1200.00 horn, or any other instrument they spent their hard earned cash on for some unknown off the street pretender to play.
You were fine to that point. But with hauling your drums or any instrument in someone else’s car you are not being car free and you would prove the point of needing a car. And I will toss the fertilizer flag on leaving a good set of drums anywhere for someone else to play. You don’t trust your good drums and skins to some nerd off of the street anymore than a real musician would leave his Guitar at the gig in case someone came by that didn’t have one. Maybe a very good friend would put a stick on new skins but someone that tunes his drums before every gig to let someone else hammer them with just whatever cheep sticks they might get their hands on is out of the question. Who would replace any damage? There is a Latin word for that idea you know? Bologna. I for one would not lend another person my drums unless that signed in blood they would replace or pay a fee for using them. If you leave a good piece of equipment at a gig when you come back some of it or all it it will be gone. I can hear it now, the dude that couldn't afford to bring his kit sees a popcorn snare or a pork pie and he has always wanted one how in the world are you going to prove he was the one that took your drum when you come back? Or do you leave your bike parked outside of the gig unlocked. Do you ever go to a gig just hoping they will have your instrument there? I don't think so.

A good craftsman also uses good tools. If the tools don’t matter to the craftsman then the quality of the craft should be suspect. If you don’t care about your tools you more than likely feel anything is good enough and are not a craftsman in the first place.

I am sorry but trying to minimise someone's concern for their musical instrument is like saying why bother taking a lock with you to secure you bike or that it is silly to get a folding bike so you don't have to leave it outside. It just doesn't ring true.

So while I might not be devoted enough to rie my bike 400 miles to play at a music festival I will fess up to the fact. I will refuse to believe you would go 400 miles on your bike and not take you chosen instrument not knowing if there would be whatever you play waiting for you. fertilizer, 10 yard penality and loss of down.

zeppinger

Maybe this is how you would choose to abuse other peoples property but its just not the case for everyone.

Cyclist0383

Ever been to Houston?

Robert Foster

Oh please. I have seen people in this forum post that they would lock up a $25.00 bike with a $20.00 lock so I am not for a second going to believe they would leave a $1000.00 guitar or $1200.00 drum set anywhere for someone they don't know to play. I'm sorry that just isn't how the world works. I don't believe you would either in all honesty. I will stick with my contention that if someone doesn't care about the instrument they don't care about the music. Take a look at rental equipment or public restrooms and then come back and tell me people will take care of equipment that isn't theirs.

Have you seen what people do to rental bikes? Do they take care of them as well as you take care of your bike? Or don't you care about your bike? ( I believe you do by the way.)

Never mind, I know people will say anything on the net just to say it and I shouldn't put too much weight on their sincerity. I just for a minute took the other posters post as serious. I apologize and will let it drop.

zeppinger

By this logic, someone who uses a $10 drum set is not as "serious" about their music as someone who uses a $1,000 set because they would probably be willing to let someone else use it every once in a while.

Anyways, its off the point. There are lots of ways around having to purchase and maintain your private automobile, just like there are ways around owning your own private drum set, skis, hockey gear, ect, ect, ect. Like living car-free all it takes is some out of the box thinking and not throwing your hands up in the air and telling people "that's just not the way the world works."

Robert Foster

Do you lock you bike?

Roody

Still off topic, but on a more positive note: a Michigan band went on a bike tour of the state last summer. They took a full-sized piano along with them. They had, IIRC, three or four bikes hooked up to the flat bed trailer that held the piano. Of course, they were doing this as a publicity stunt and it's not a practical way to do regular gigs, but it did show a lot of people what human power is capable of.

I find it interesting that, as Robert pointed out, most musicians don't wnat to share their instruments with other performers, or for that matter play somebody else's instrument themselves. But pianos and pianists are always the exception. Even though they're extremely expensive and have very individual sounds, I don't think any pianists carry their own instruments on tour or even to a local gig.

crazybikerchick

But the point is that every band member need not have their own car. If they all are going to the same gigs it would make sense to travel together. How that's done - whether they all chip in to a rental van - or whether they compensate the member that owns a car they ride with, is up to them.

Newspaperguy

Sit down with a concert pianist and ask him or her about the variety of pianos they have seen. They range from the high quality and well maintained to the low-end clunkers which barely hold a tune. The size and weight of a piano make this instrument incredibly difficult to transport. Such is not the case with almost any other instrument.

zeppinger

There we go. This is just one example of being creative to solve a problem rather than simply saying "it can't be done." Hell, you could have a whole group of band members sharing one van and each one uses it on whatever day that they have gigs.

Robert Foster

I have not said living car free couldn't be done. I have said that some sacrifices will have to be made. What I read in response was no sacrifices will have to be made and I find that unrealistic. I said earlier that a family that has kids in soccer, dance, and who knows what else will either have to limit where their kids play or beg a ride from someone else and trust their children to some other parent.
I understand a concert piano is most often available at the site and I also understand even if they have pianos before cars they didn’t haul them by bike or bus.
It is my contention that by trying to convince people that nothing in their life will change if they simply go car free you are doing a disservice and courting failure when the people discover that isn’t the case. When a person tries out for a band they are expected to have whatever instrument they are going to play to show the reviewer what they have and what they can do. This was just an example of something that will be much harder if you have to get to a audition in Santa Monica one day and San Diego the next. Telling someone that they will “easily” be able to add a trailer to their bike or that someone will leave an instrument for them or they can easily hitch a ride is disingenuous as worst and obtuse at least.
Someone suggested renting hockey equipment as if that is a common practice. Some other have suggested skiing wouldn’t be a problem because you could rent the skis as well. Sure you could and if you left the house at 2 in the morning you might climb the 6 or 7000 feet to the ski area by noon the next day on a bike.
I am not saying it isn’t worth it to give some of these things up. But I wasn’t going to impose on others to come and get me because I chose not to drive my car. If I choose to change my lifestyle why should someone have to make extra room in their car or van and drive across town to get me? They shouldn’t and if they did some of my share of whatever money we got paid should go to them for doing it. And that is sacrifice as well in my opinion.
Like I said I know I have a different outlook on car free than many of you. I also know I don’t know as much about utility cycling as some. But with as many miles as I put on a bike every year I do know how hard it is to go 40-50-60 or 100 miles in a day. I do know how hard it is to ride a 5500 foot climb in a day. I do know what it is like to pull a trailer with 75 pounds of stuff up a 12 mile 1800 foot hill. So telling me it can be done is one thing. Telling me it is no sacrifice is another. I also know how easy it is to have expensive musical equipment go missing and end up in a pawn shop. Bike theft is peanuts compared to equipment theft.

This is not aimed at you Roody it is just a generic response.

Roody

Robert, nobody says that here won't be changes when somebody becomes carfree. But we do say that the changes might be better than the old way, or at least no worse. Or most likely, worse in some ways and better in other ways.

For eample, a band that decides to share a van or pickup truck will probably find some inconveniences. They might have to leave earlier for gigs and practices, and they might have to work through arguments about the vehicle. On the positive side, they might also find some very good things about van sharing: not only saving a lot on expenses, but also having more time to spend together as they drive to gigs--time that might be spent discussing their music or planning their careers. (Maybe the Beatles would not have broken up if they flew in the same plane, rather than all taking their private jets to concerts? Who knows....)

In order to discover the unexpected positive aspects of living carfree, people really have to try it for themselves. They need positive encouragement and help with the details. A lot of times that's why people come to this forum. They really don't need people to tell them "it can't be done." They've been hearing that all their lives. Let's at least try to figure out ways for them to try doing things without a car. Then, if they decide it really won't work in their situation, that's fine. At least they tried to think outside the cage, and at least we tried to give them a boost.

Yes, it can be a sacrifice to live without a car. But just as often it's more of a sacrifice to live your life dependant on an expensive and dirty machine. There are sacrifices involved in any choice that we make in life, but if we think for ourselves and make sensible choices, we're more likely to be satisfied with both the choices and the sacrifices.