Artkansas 

The bicyclists and bike stores I've talked to about being car-free in Phoenix all tend to agree that it's not very practical in Phoenix because of the distances involved. Has anyone done it successfully?

LesterOfPuppets

I did it for about a year. 17.5 mile one way commute 35th and Bell to Sun City West. It wasn't so bad. That was back in 1991, though. Bell Road got pretty mellow once you got past 63rd.

It's tough if you want to go a lot of different places though, as you have to figure out the least lethal roads to ride on.

The thing I really miss about PHX is Trail 100. There are no decent MTB trails that you can ride (or even take the bus) to around here.

poormanbiking

I think it can be done if your keeping the distances short > 10 miles inside cities. As for Bell Rd. its bad now all the way to Sun City.

Artkansas 

Yeah, well, distance seems to be the big factor, and what all the bicyclists from Phoenix have mentioned. It sure isn't the hills. I'm not sure how much control over that I'll have.

I know that my uncle lives in Scottsdale while my sister lives in the south part of Chandler. Some of the attractions for me there are active chapters of the National Space Society and the Moon Society, I'm not quite sure where they meet.

I gather the buses have bike racks, but on my one attempt to go a long distance on them, the routing seemed to be a bit byzantine.

How is the air quality?

jim97gst

Phoenix has a fairly new light rail system. Fairly limited destinations, but you can bring your bike on the train.

https://www.valleymetro.org/metro_lig...l/how_to_ride/

Artkansas 

Thanks. I looked it over. Sounds good.

Roody

OTOH, I've heard that Phoenix is not a good place to drive either.

poormanbiking

I moved from Peoria,Arizona just outside of Phoenix 16 years ago. Air quality was poor back then before a few hundred thousand more people in. I've googled maps of what was old farm land and now all you see are subdivisions and businesses. The light rail system serves more of the east valley but not farther north to get to Scottsdale. The light rail is currently one of those projects thats not big enough to make a big over all difference and over 30 years late.

Artkansas 

So it seems. Apparently the Brown Cloud is well established.

Roody

Are you thinking of making a move, Artkansas?

Artkansas 

Yep. I'm unemployed. My family wants me to move to where they are and they have sweetened the pot a bit. So, I've been investigating and trying to compare futures in both locations.

The pluses about Phoenix: family; Arizona State has a decent Master's program if I decide on that; there are 3 space activism groups there that I'm interested in, the National Space Society, the Moon Society and the Arizona High Powered Rocket Assn; I've been told by the leaders of the Arizona Bike Club that they are looking for someone to organize a chapter in the area I'd be in; my favorite puppet theater is there; and the roads are flat and the blocks are long, so my average road speed will pick up again; the job market is larger and closer to L.A.

However, there are minuses: Arizona politics seem to suffer; there is the Brown Cloud over Phoenix and the long term water situation seems iffy; the Phoenix unemployment rate is higher than Arkansas and the houses are more expensive; And Arkansas is much more green and lush; Arizona seems to have a decent music scene, but Arkansas has it beat hand's down; it seems that the cost of living is a bit lower in Arkansas;

Another big factor is the cost of moving. I've calculated that it will take at least a month and cost about $3K to move. So it's a serious disruption. Then there are things like power bills which are much higher in the Arizona summer.

It's a tough decision. There are factors to decide between, but it's apples and oranges, and there is no hard factor, such as the job offer that drew me to Little Rock in the first place. At least there is no down side. I could stay here in Little Rock without problem, the question is would Phoenix be enough better to justify the expense of moving.

I guess if I moved, I'd have to become Artizona.

velocycling

Artizona if you do move there, give your self time to learn to know the desert. It is not like the mtn, ocean, forests. It takes time to see what the desert has. I moved there in the 80's for a few years and it took a couple to actually start to really like it.
Phx does have a large MTB community from what I have read on other forums.

Artkansas 

Well, I have a head start there. I lived near Palm Springs for 8 years. So things like cycling in mid summer are not a concern. I've got my chops on riding in the heat.

96_xj

I went to highschool in gilbert. being carless in phoenix is not easy. doable but not easy, plan on a bus pass and to learn all of the routes, the roads are bike GROUP friendly but single rider friendly is on and off depending on the driver.

Road biking and Triathlons are HUGE and you will see riders out daily with the clubs (landis Tri Club, Phoenix Tri club and others) out in packs on the weekends.

if you dont mountain bike learn to now. South mountain and the white tanks (depending on if you are east or west phoenix) have GREAT mountain bike trails. It is a very active community but just really depends on where you live and where you work. Plus each city has its own "special features" that you might want to go to which is where the bus comes in real handy

Artkansas 

Yeah, I have been imagining that if I move, what bikes shall I use how? Seems like my old 10 speed could be reupped as a commuter and that my Hard Rock might get it's street slicks removed and knobbies put in place. But I might use my Kabuki Syd as the commuter instead, it's got more holes for attaching racks.

What kind of locks are needed? Around Little Rock, I've never found a need for more than a curly cable, but I'm not sure if Phoenix is a higher theft area.

96_xj

eh I have been fine with a 1" cable lock (thing is beefy) but most use u-locks

zoltani

Not too familiar with the area, but I do know I had a job prospect there and it was very low on places that I would want to move and be car free. The sprawl, the heat, lack of well defined neighborhoods, and lack of lush mountains turns me off. Instead I went for the cold, g*****ss, rain, and lush mountains....

96_xj

there is defined neighborhoods, the streets are all on a grid pattern, the heat is 3 months and perfect the rest, lush (trees) mountains are an hour away...

IMHO it is one of the best places to live and I was spoiled by living in the foothills(just below Tahoe area) of NorCal while growing up....

Artkansas 

The sprawl I dislike. The heat I love, and desert mountains. The key attractions are family and that many of the groups I want to be involved in have active local chapters.

zoltani

Ok, sorry, I was under the impression that the "neighborhoods" were in fact cities on their own. Scottsdale, mesa, tempe and the like

Roody

Darn it, you stole my joke. It sounds like a difficult decision. I don't know a lot about Phoenix, but I have heard that it's a lot different now than it was before the real estate bubble burst. Personally, I hate sprawl. If I lived in a city like Phoenix I would try to find a quaint older neighborhood and just stick close to home as much as possible.

Artkansas 

That's what I was thinking too. I'm not sure how many quaint older neighborhoods there are though. Most of Phoenix wasn't settled till after 1960.

Artkansas 

Well, I've been looking at Phoenix. But I have to admit that it looks like being car-free there will be nearly impossible. I might be able to make a basic living there, with groceries, bank, etc. But participating in a larger life, going to events, meetings, participating in groups, seem to require traveling 10-30 miles, and the only bus line that would be near me shuts down at about 6pm.

So if I go there getting a car seems almost necessary, and with the price of gasoline going through the roof, its seeming more foolish. I looked and the nearest zip car locations would be about 10 miles away.

But also, I wonder about the integrity about moving to a place as in-conflict with my values of being car-free, even if I do see opportunities that I don't find in Arkansas. It's like being car-dependent seems immoral, though I don't believe it's against anyone's religion.

Sundance89

We're getting a little better. I've lived here (Scottsdale) for 16 years and bike lanes are at least being added to most of the main roads when repaved. The rest of the roads require the usual strong riding tactics for commuters.

We do have two opposites that are in conflict for cyclists wanting to live car free. During the years of the real estate boom, the masses completely embraced the notion of "drive until you can afford a house". So that made for some serious sprawl. I suggest you just rent a room in someone's house and don't sign an apartment lease, etc. until you get your job situation settled. You could be anywhere in a very large metro area.

Once here, I think you will appreciate having so many sunny days, and given time to allow your body to adjust, you will be able to cycle in the summer too. (Hydrate big time!) I am extremely car (Jeep) light and commute year round to work (25 mile round trip average). The air quality is not that good. We aren't LA, but we're heading there if we don't do something about it. And people used to come here for the clean air and rid themselves of allergies, now with all of the development and nonindigenous planting, people come here and GET allergies?? Go figure?

The big bonus is the state and its land as a whole. The land in Arizona is what has always resonated with me - not its politics. A little fact about AZ is that there are more national monuments here than any other state and the Grand Canyon is just one.

Hope it works out for you.

Sundance89

Agreed. Bell Rd is the most heavily traveled surface street in the city. I live off of Bell Rd and I can tell you it aint what it used to be. I pulled my cargo trailer down Bell from 68th Street to Cave Creek Road a few times. Yeah it's lethal alright. You better be bold in how you ride.