Roody

You're right about economics and employment being a main factor--probably THE main factor.

But Detroit has been losing population for decades now, and the reasons are many and complex. For example, crime is another factor that still makes Detroit undesirable (it's the main reason I left the city in 1977). Of course crime can be said to have a basis in the economy also. Racism was a big factor in population loss in the 1960s and 1970s, and probably a minor factor since then. A lot of Detroit's problems reflect nationa trends too. For example, black families seem to be returning to the south from all the northeren cities plus California.

A big reason for Detroit's problems, ironically, is the automobile. Affluent people moved to the suburbs starting in the early 1950s. The city was unable to annex suburbs because of Michigan's weird laws, and the tax base gradually eroded. By the time people noticed there was a problem, it was practically too late to do anything about the problem.

Robert Foster

Now we are discussing the issues without getting side tracked by someone trying to play the race card where it doesn't apply. Because the issues that Roody and myrriden have stated have not been addressed why would a reasonable person be interested in moving to the place listed by the OP? Does the housing development in other words change any of the things that are causing people to leave Detroit proper? If not it seems like spitting into the wind.

Roody

How can you be so dense? Obviously the people running this project are devoting their LIVES to solving the problems of Detroit. Just getting involved is half the solution. In a place like Detroit, just showing that you care is 1000 times more than what most people do. Sure it might end up to be a waste of time and energy, but you can't know that until you give it an honest shot. If you want a guarantee that your life (or your city) will always be wonderful, and you don't want to work hard to make it so, then Detroit is not the place for you.

If you think California is more than 20 years behind Detroit, you haven't been paying attention to the news lately. If I were you, I wouldn't bother moving to Detroit, but i would start thinking about how some of the SOLUTIONS that people are TRYING in Detroit might help in California too.

Where Detroit is today, that's where many cities will be in less than a generation. This is the general direction our entire society will go if we don't watch out. If solutions are found, they will be found in places like Detroit, by people like the ones working on Spaulding court. That's why people should pay attention to Detroit.

countersTrike

I found these stats interesting comparing Santa Cruz with other places.
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/santa-cruz/crime/

https://santacruz.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

https://www.cityrating.com/citycrime....+Cruz&state=CA
I am not sure how that compares with Detroit BUT "Pleeze pleeze pleeze- beam me up Scottie... "

Malloric

Why do they care? Just move to a suburb that already has low crime, good schools, looks pretty and clean. You could waste a lot of time, money, and energy trying to rehabilitate Spaulding Court and rent it to romantic schmucks for $1200 a month.... but you might not find them. For that kind of money, they might just go off and rent a unit in an apartment in a building that isn't a burned out looted wreck in the middle of a wasteland. Say someplace like Royal Oak, MI. Just saying.



California cities, and most every other the rest of the cities in the country, are moving the exact opposite direction that Detroit is. Most cities are growing and infill urban development is about the only area of construction that is still hot. Well, that and green construction is still growing.

Again, I'm not seeing it. I don't see Seattle, Portland, or San Francisco having less than 300,000 people in the next 30 years. I don't see Houston having less than a million. I just don't. Strolling through a derelict wasteland that is Noe Valley is totally incredible.

Detroit isn't some unique city that foreshadows the decline of American Civilization. Every other city suffered the same thing Detroit did: Suburban flight. That's been a reversing trend in most cities for years. Detroit's behind the game there, not ahead. I think we're in the beginning stages of that.. but Pearl in Portland, South Lake Union in Seattle, and SOMA in San Francisco happened years ago.

Robert Foster

You are missing my point completely. I am not asking from a personal perspective because there would be little or no chance of me moving to some place like Detroit. I am saying it hardly seems like the effort of the specific project the OP posted will address any of the issues that are causing Detroit's decay. The solution has to be more than showing you care it has to be coming up with something that will turn the tide.

I don't understand how this has turned into an emotional issue. A city is just a place where people stay it is not a living thing.

detroitJon

First off, I like you Roody, when did you say you were moving back to the city?

And for Mr. Foster, here's the best answer I can give you:

Most of the movement out of the city are older working and middle class people who leave for better schools, less crime, less blight, less taxes, cheaper auto insurance and to be closer to employment centers.

Many people moving to the city are without kids, locating in generally safe neighborhoods (like Corktown for example), and rent at reasonable rates. Often they are creative folks seeking density, professionals working downtown or retired folks on fixed income. You don't need auto insurance without a car and there are a number of fascinating schools springing up since the collapse of DPS (google the Boggs Education Project).

I find it to be a wonderful place to live though I'm sure not everyone would agree. I think though, that enough people would certainly agree, especially amongst folks who don't like driving cars.

Robert Foster

Thanks for the clairafication. That is more or less what I suspected. Good reasons for leaving and reasonable reasons for returning. Will this however help the tax base? Will it limit crime? Will it reverse the trend that has been the norm for Detroit for so many years? I have moved from places for the same reasons you listed but I have never felt any responsibility to return if the conditions that caused me to leave haven't changed all that much.

Roody

Dude, why did the Pilgrims come to America? Why did the pioneers move westward? Four reasons--cheap land, opportunity to implement new ideas, adventure, and personal freedom. Things you might find in Detroit, but not so much in Orange county.

Robert Foster

The claims for why people are leaving have ranged from racism to class warfare without any sympathy for why they left. Now that it is more or less proved that it isn't a racist plot the intimation is that it is a class thing. But has anyone been willing to admit that it just might be as the other poster indicated with crime, schools, blight, less taxes, and closer to where they work? Just maybe it isn't the car or the suburbs but the conditions themselves? If that is the case unless those things are "corrected" how will you lure the tax base back? Let’s be honest, Detroit, Chicago, LA, Boston and New York are only concrete, steel and asphalt.
I am not saying people should leave Detroit I am saying unless Detroit fixes the problems that are causing so many to leave then there is no reason to return to Detroit. People do not owe anything to concrete, steel and asphalt. It doesn’t matter if it is Detroit, LA, Chicago, Boston or New York people that already, as the other poster, Detroitjon, indicated crime, schools, blight, taxes and where they work are all valid reasons for leaving. If those conditions haven’t been corrected I am only saying there is very little incentive for anyone to move to one of those cities to ”help” fix those problems.
When I looked at the sites you posted I was shocked. You may have seen hope but I saw decay. Just a different point of view. Not a condemnation of urban dwellers.

Roody

Detroit would probably be a great place to build an earthship, Robert.

Robert Foster

At least that was funny.

If they could get past the building codes alternative building in already torn down neighborhoods might work. Personally I would have problems with the cold and crime but then I already live somewhere warmer with less crime.

Still for people already living in the area anyway some alternative housing methods could make living there more reasonable.

Roody

I did mean it as a joke, but are you aware that Detroit is becoming the epicenter of the urban farming/gardening movement? There would be little to stop someone from building an alternative style house in Detroit with enough land around it to feed a family. Michigan is also developing althernative energy manufacturing, so you would probably be able to get off the grid right in Detroit also.

no motor?

This doesn't relate to being car free, but it does make Detroit look more appealing.
https://shareable.net/blog/detroit-community-resilience-and-the-american-dream

Roody

Thanks for the link. Interesting article. It sort of proves my earlier point that, for all its problems, Detroit offers opportunities that just don't exist in very many other cities--especially for creative and hard-working young people. These are the same type of people who made America a great country in the past.

no motor?

Glad you liked it. I was kind of surprised when they didn't mentioning bicycling in the article, and smiled when I read the mention of "ruins porn".

Roody

Ruins porn! One of the saddest things I ever saw on the Internet was a picture of "my" library from childhood with it's beautiful carved bronze doors boarded up in plywood.



McGregor Library in Highland Park, MI

fishtoes2000

That is sad, Roody. Unfortunately I don't recall the library's current status, but I do believe they repaired the leaking roof.

The quote over that boarded entrance? "Books are doors to wide new ways."

Roody

If you hear that they're accepting donations to save McGregor, plese let me know. It's just one of those very special places in Michigan.