Specific example of cost of car ownership
#51
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More power to you. It is interesting, that even with higher than normal mileage, your costs are still well below the national "averages" ($600-$900/month) that get quoted here. And I have seen many people quote those numbers. My purpose in posting this thread was to shed some light on actual costs (and am please that others have posted their own data)... While car ownership/use is certainly more expensive than a bicycle on a monthly basis, it need not be an excessive burden
The actual average cost of owning a car is around $8000 a year, as determined by industry associations (Kelly) consumer groups (Consumer Reports) and by automobile advocacy groups (your buddies) like AAA. These are fair, unbiased and reliable figures. They are the figures that lending agencies and insurance companies use when determining their rates.
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#52
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I certainly know how to own a car on the cheap, having done it many times. You buy a junker for a few dollars, and then drive it until something goes wrong and you scrap it out. If you buy a beater for $400 and drive the hello out of for six months, then sell it to a scrapyard for $30--THAT'S cheap transportation. But obviously, most people would be unable to do this, so I don't suggest it as a practical plan for the masses.
Of course your scam is pretty impressive also: Buy a nice car with a lot of expensive options, drive the hell out of it. Then crash it into a wall and collect a fat check from the insurance company. Works great if you don't get killed!
Of course your scam is pretty impressive also: Buy a nice car with a lot of expensive options, drive the hell out of it. Then crash it into a wall and collect a fat check from the insurance company. Works great if you don't get killed!
You sarcasm and other uncivil behavior, which you have directed at me for some time now, would indicate you feel insecure about your choices... Which would explain the self-righteous proselytizing... In short I have come to the conclusion that you are car-free, not by choice, but by the circumstances your choices have left you in...
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How soon you forget! The "averages" you talk about are actual averages--no foofy little air quotes needed.
The actual average cost of owning a car is around $8000 a year, as determined by industry associations (Kelly) consumer groups (Consumer Reports) and by automobile advocacy groups (your buddies) like AAA. These are fair, unbiased and reliable figures. They are the figures that lending agencies and insurance companies use when determining their rates.
The actual average cost of owning a car is around $8000 a year, as determined by industry associations (Kelly) consumer groups (Consumer Reports) and by automobile advocacy groups (your buddies) like AAA. These are fair, unbiased and reliable figures. They are the figures that lending agencies and insurance companies use when determining their rates.
So by definition the figures are not fair or unbiased, for the purposes they are being used for on this forum...
#54
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#55
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I too am interested in cost comparisons on a per mile basis. I haven't found any generally useful data for such comparisons though. My suspician is that on a per mile basis the cost difference is pretty small; however, I have no facts to check that hypothesis. Which is why my posts in this thread are on a monthly cost basis...
The IRS allows 55 cents a mile, IIRC. There are many calculators on the web that provide per mile figures. I would provide a link, but....
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#56
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And yet more evidence that you don't understand statistics. The "average" (which is in quotes because statistics defines several "averages") is not an average of the cost of owning a car, but rather an average of what is spent on a car... The difference is that the former covers "required costs" while the latter entail non-required options. In other words, purchasing high end vehicles, multiple vehicles, recreational vehicles, etc...
So by definition the figures are not fair or unbiased, for the purposes they are being used for on this forum...
So by definition the figures are not fair or unbiased, for the purposes they are being used for on this forum...
And I might add taht in your OP you mentioned something about high end options like a moon roof and other unspecified options. In fact, your payout probably would have been much lower if it wasn't for those fancy optoions.
Dude, you got lucky and crashed your car at the peak moment when you would get a big payout. It doesn't take a genius. I'm just glad nobody was injured.
I know if I ever but another car, I'm going to park it under a dead tree every night, and maybe I'll reap a financial windfall like you did.
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Last edited by Roody; 08-29-11 at 10:04 AM.
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Some days I wish I didn't get "car fever" when I graduated college and had my cheap neon totaled within the week.
Here's my (albeit rough) numbers:
2008 RAV4
18 months of expenses:
Purchase Price: $22,000 ($3,500 down and $450/mo )
Maintenance & Repairs: $200 (a few oil changes...nothing major)
Insurance: $100/mo
Misc (accessories, registration fees and taxes): $1700
Total: $15,100
Monthly: $839 before gas...probably close to $900 after gas is added
The only thing about this is...I had a low down-payment chose a high monthly payment for my vehicle so I can pay it off quicker. Most people that I know keep payments at $300-400.
Here's my (albeit rough) numbers:
2008 RAV4
18 months of expenses:
Purchase Price: $22,000 ($3,500 down and $450/mo )
Maintenance & Repairs: $200 (a few oil changes...nothing major)
Insurance: $100/mo
Misc (accessories, registration fees and taxes): $1700
Total: $15,100
Monthly: $839 before gas...probably close to $900 after gas is added
The only thing about this is...I had a low down-payment chose a high monthly payment for my vehicle so I can pay it off quicker. Most people that I know keep payments at $300-400.
#58
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Some days I wish I didn't get "car fever" when I graduated college and had my cheap neon totaled within the week.
Here's my (albeit rough) numbers:
2008 RAV4
18 months of expenses:
Purchase Price: $22,000 ($3,500 down and $450/mo )
Maintenance & Repairs: $200 (a few oil changes...nothing major)
Insurance: $100/mo
Misc (accessories, registration fees and taxes): $1700
Total: $15,100
Monthly: $839 before gas...probably close to $900 after gas is added
The only thing about this is...I had a low down-payment chose a high monthly payment for my vehicle so I can pay it off quicker. Most people that I know keep payments at $300-400.
Here's my (albeit rough) numbers:
2008 RAV4
18 months of expenses:
Purchase Price: $22,000 ($3,500 down and $450/mo )
Maintenance & Repairs: $200 (a few oil changes...nothing major)
Insurance: $100/mo
Misc (accessories, registration fees and taxes): $1700
Total: $15,100
Monthly: $839 before gas...probably close to $900 after gas is added
The only thing about this is...I had a low down-payment chose a high monthly payment for my vehicle so I can pay it off quicker. Most people that I know keep payments at $300-400.
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Roody, I can only conclude that you are intentionally being ignorant... since you keep repeating the same false hoods..
Again you lack of reasoning leads you to a completely false statement. The issue is not one of anything inherrently wrong with the "average" numbers quoted, but the attempt to use those numbers as representative of the "cost" of car ownership. They represent what is spent on cars. Which I know is probably difficult for you to understand, but that is not the same thing as what is meant by the cost of car ownership as discussed here...
The fundamental key to my ability to turn a used car over for the best return I can get is the choice of the vehicle. Much like a home, few additions actually return their full costs... Another factor is that I choose a middle of the road vehicle rather than an extremely high (or low) end vehicle. And along with that I choose vehicles that have low average maintenance costs, and high resale values.
While you might consider it lucky, I do not. Given my recent change in travel patterns, I expected that to be the last car I would ever have to purchase... But again, the numbers were simply my most current (and therefore readily available) example of costs... Despite assertions to the contrary, I have gotten comparable returns when reselling my old cars...
Oh, and given your behavior I think it is unlikely that you would ever be able to afford a car let alone insurance, though I wouldn't be surprised at your attempt at fraud...
[/QUOTE]
Dude, you got lucky and crashed your car at the peak moment when you would get a big payout. It doesn't take a genius. I'm just glad nobody was injured.
I know if I ever but another car, I'm going to park it under a dead tree every night, and maybe I'll reap a financial windfall like you did.
I know if I ever but another car, I'm going to park it under a dead tree every night, and maybe I'll reap a financial windfall like you did.
Oh, and given your behavior I think it is unlikely that you would ever be able to afford a car let alone insurance, though I wouldn't be surprised at your attempt at fraud...
[/QUOTE]
#60
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I made no claims about the numbers being generally applicable,
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Well, here are my numbers:
Purchase Price: $17K including taxes and title
Owned for one month.
Total cost of ownership per month: $17K
herp de derp. We know see how these specious numbers can be played towards both ends. Now, let's go ahead and used respected numbers, called "Averages".
Purchase Price: $17K including taxes and title
Owned for one month.
Total cost of ownership per month: $17K
herp de derp. We know see how these specious numbers can be played towards both ends. Now, let's go ahead and used respected numbers, called "Averages".
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I didn't include the cost of the car because I paid for it outright when I bought it and honestly am not sure how much longer I can expect before it reaches the end of its lifespan. That, and I'm an artist for a reason. Geometry's my mathematical forte. Algebra and trig make my brain hurt, and finances make me run screaming.
In all seriousness, I have a tentative understanding on the theory behind the $8,000 figure. The difference between my numbers and that average could be accounted for easily, and crunching a few numbers makes it a very believable average to me. As I understand it, the gap is average lifespan of the car. (Roody, you mentioned depreciation.) Price of car over it's serviceable life. For some, that gap would be the car payment. The average person would also have told me (lots of people did!) I should have looked at lower-mileage cars. Mine had 137k on the odo when I got it.
The $8,000 figure is an AVERAGE. Of course some people are going to come out lower. Personally, I'd hate to see the figures for the ones on the other side of the curve! O_o
edit: I figure if it lasts to 200,000 miles, I have another 30,000 miles to shuttle the dog and save up for moving towards town...and for a scooter with a side car. It's an 85 lb rottie! I don't think I could do 85 lbs of constantly shifting cargo up the hill to the vet by pedalling. I can hear it now: would you like to drop her off or wait? I'll wait. *gasp* Across the street. *gasp* At the ice cream shop. *wheeze* or passed out in your lawn!
In all seriousness, I have a tentative understanding on the theory behind the $8,000 figure. The difference between my numbers and that average could be accounted for easily, and crunching a few numbers makes it a very believable average to me. As I understand it, the gap is average lifespan of the car. (Roody, you mentioned depreciation.) Price of car over it's serviceable life. For some, that gap would be the car payment. The average person would also have told me (lots of people did!) I should have looked at lower-mileage cars. Mine had 137k on the odo when I got it.
The $8,000 figure is an AVERAGE. Of course some people are going to come out lower. Personally, I'd hate to see the figures for the ones on the other side of the curve! O_o
edit: I figure if it lasts to 200,000 miles, I have another 30,000 miles to shuttle the dog and save up for moving towards town...and for a scooter with a side car. It's an 85 lb rottie! I don't think I could do 85 lbs of constantly shifting cargo up the hill to the vet by pedalling. I can hear it now: would you like to drop her off or wait? I'll wait. *gasp* Across the street. *gasp* At the ice cream shop. *wheeze* or passed out in your lawn!
Last edited by Cheshire; 08-29-11 at 06:46 PM.
#63
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It has nothing to do with his math. When you listed the price of the "new car" below the mileage of the wrecked car, it certainly sounded like you were talking about a new replacement car, not what you originally paid for the wrecked car. Normally, a reader would expect that original purchase price to have been at the top of the list.
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These threads started by devils' advocates are *yaaaawn* really really interesting, you guys.
Here are some numbers that don't apply to a lot of folks on this site, especially not our super awesome OP.
Average Monthly Income: $1,161
Monthly Rent: $550
Estimated monthly grocery costs and other must-have purchases-$250
Amount spent yearly on tuition (before books)- $6,400
Doesn't really make that $200ish a month you're writing off as a minor expense seem that minor, does it myrridin? For your argument of potential low cost of automobile ownership to work here against people who aren't you, two things need to be done. First, there needs to be a ratio to adjust net income against monthly cost of ownership. I don't know what you do for a living, myrridin (nor care), but I'm guessing that if $200 a month is something you can just give up without hesitation (it seems here like you're almost happy to do it, actually) then you probably make enough money to still get by and be comfortable. For me to own a car and get by, and still be comfortable, then I could maybe afford around $35 a month. I've had insurance payments as high as $120 a month due to reckless teenaged habits, so that's out. Second of all, everyone who who is calculating their monthly costs needs to be as AWESOME as you are and be lucky enough to get into some sweet car accident, or just negotiate the s**t out of some idiot from craigslist and manage to get the full amount, or close to the full amount back that we spent in the first place.
But even if I had an extra $200 a month, why would I want to spend it on a car? Cars are effing lame, dude.
Here are some numbers that don't apply to a lot of folks on this site, especially not our super awesome OP.
Average Monthly Income: $1,161
Monthly Rent: $550
Estimated monthly grocery costs and other must-have purchases-$250
Amount spent yearly on tuition (before books)- $6,400
Doesn't really make that $200ish a month you're writing off as a minor expense seem that minor, does it myrridin? For your argument of potential low cost of automobile ownership to work here against people who aren't you, two things need to be done. First, there needs to be a ratio to adjust net income against monthly cost of ownership. I don't know what you do for a living, myrridin (nor care), but I'm guessing that if $200 a month is something you can just give up without hesitation (it seems here like you're almost happy to do it, actually) then you probably make enough money to still get by and be comfortable. For me to own a car and get by, and still be comfortable, then I could maybe afford around $35 a month. I've had insurance payments as high as $120 a month due to reckless teenaged habits, so that's out. Second of all, everyone who who is calculating their monthly costs needs to be as AWESOME as you are and be lucky enough to get into some sweet car accident, or just negotiate the s**t out of some idiot from craigslist and manage to get the full amount, or close to the full amount back that we spent in the first place.
But even if I had an extra $200 a month, why would I want to spend it on a car? Cars are effing lame, dude.
Last edited by junkyardking; 08-29-11 at 11:16 PM.
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I recently was in a car accident and had my car totaled... While driving my bike down to the local REI for a class on brake maintenance... Just finalized the settlement for the car with my insurance company and thought some might be interested in actual costs for car ownership for a specific person.
The car: 2008 Honda Accord Sedan. Top end 6 cyl. model with leather interior and moon roof along with a few other options. Sticker price when purchased: $31,578
Mileage: 37,000
Negotiated purchase price for new vehicle: $24,998
Insurance settlement: $23,500
Net capitol cost: $1,500
Gas consumption: 1,500 gallons
Estimated gas cost: $4,125
Maintenance costs: $750
Insurance costs: $2100
License fees: $300
Total out of pocket: $8,775
Period of ownership: 42 months
Monthly net total car cost: ~$200
Real numbers for a single person. While they may not be generally descriptive, they are indicative that car ownership and use is not as expensive as some here claim...
The car: 2008 Honda Accord Sedan. Top end 6 cyl. model with leather interior and moon roof along with a few other options. Sticker price when purchased: $31,578
Mileage: 37,000
Negotiated purchase price for new vehicle: $24,998
Insurance settlement: $23,500
Net capitol cost: $1,500
Gas consumption: 1,500 gallons
Estimated gas cost: $4,125
Maintenance costs: $750
Insurance costs: $2100
License fees: $300
Total out of pocket: $8,775
Period of ownership: 42 months
Monthly net total car cost: ~$200
Real numbers for a single person. While they may not be generally descriptive, they are indicative that car ownership and use is not as expensive as some here claim...
I don't believe your numbers either. Put up a picture of your receipt. I don't believe they'd give you that much in settlement either. Did you have gap insurance or something?
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Not true. The opportunity costs are losing the ability to do anything else wiQQth the money. Even if what you'd have done is throw a wild party with strippers and free drugs, there's an opportunity cost.
Just posted them to tell some lies with statistics, then? An example featuring a pretty substantial subsidy from your insurance company isn't a terribly realistic way to claim that your cost of driving is low.
Just posted them to tell some lies with statistics, then? An example featuring a pretty substantial subsidy from your insurance company isn't a terribly realistic way to claim that your cost of driving is low.
However, even using your ridiculous definition I had no lost opportunity costs since I had nothing else I needed or wanted to use the money for...
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So believe what you like...
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It has nothing to do with his math. When you listed the price of the "new car" below the mileage of the wrecked car, it certainly sounded like you were talking about a new replacement car, not what you originally paid for the wrecked car. Normally, a reader would expect that original purchase price to have been at the top of the list.
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These threads started by devils' advocates are *yaaaawn* really really interesting, you guys.
Here are some numbers that don't apply to a lot of folks on this site, especially not our super awesome OP.
Average Monthly Income: $1,161
Monthly Rent: $550
Estimated monthly grocery costs and other must-have purchases-$250
Amount spent yearly on tuition (before books)- $6,400
Doesn't really make that $200ish a month you're writing off as a minor expense seem that minor, does it myrridin? For your argument of potential low cost of automobile ownership to work here against people who aren't you, two things need to be done. First, there needs to be a ratio to adjust net income against monthly cost of ownership. I don't know what you do for a living, myrridin (nor care), but I'm guessing that if $200 a month is something you can just give up without hesitation (it seems here like you're almost happy to do it, actually) then you probably make enough money to still get by and be comfortable. For me to own a car and get by, and still be comfortable, then I could maybe afford around $35 a month. I've had insurance payments as high as $120 a month due to reckless teenaged habits, so that's out. Second of all, everyone who who is calculating their monthly costs needs to be as AWESOME as you are and be lucky enough to get into some sweet car accident, or just negotiate the s**t out of some idiot from craigslist and manage to get the full amount, or close to the full amount back that we spent in the first place.
But even if I had an extra $200 a month, why would I want to spend it on a car? Cars are effing lame, dude.
Here are some numbers that don't apply to a lot of folks on this site, especially not our super awesome OP.
Average Monthly Income: $1,161
Monthly Rent: $550
Estimated monthly grocery costs and other must-have purchases-$250
Amount spent yearly on tuition (before books)- $6,400
Doesn't really make that $200ish a month you're writing off as a minor expense seem that minor, does it myrridin? For your argument of potential low cost of automobile ownership to work here against people who aren't you, two things need to be done. First, there needs to be a ratio to adjust net income against monthly cost of ownership. I don't know what you do for a living, myrridin (nor care), but I'm guessing that if $200 a month is something you can just give up without hesitation (it seems here like you're almost happy to do it, actually) then you probably make enough money to still get by and be comfortable. For me to own a car and get by, and still be comfortable, then I could maybe afford around $35 a month. I've had insurance payments as high as $120 a month due to reckless teenaged habits, so that's out. Second of all, everyone who who is calculating their monthly costs needs to be as AWESOME as you are and be lucky enough to get into some sweet car accident, or just negotiate the s**t out of some idiot from craigslist and manage to get the full amount, or close to the full amount back that we spent in the first place.
But even if I had an extra $200 a month, why would I want to spend it on a car? Cars are effing lame, dude.
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I didn't include the cost of the car because I paid for it outright when I bought it and honestly am not sure how much longer I can expect before it reaches the end of its lifespan. That, and I'm an artist for a reason. Geometry's my mathematical forte. Algebra and trig make my brain hurt, and finances make me run screaming.
In all seriousness, I have a tentative understanding on the theory behind the $8,000 figure. The difference between my numbers and that average could be accounted for easily, and crunching a few numbers makes it a very believable average to me. As I understand it, the gap is average lifespan of the car. (Roody, you mentioned depreciation.) Price of car over it's serviceable life. For some, that gap would be the car payment. The average person would also have told me (lots of people did!) I should have looked at lower-mileage cars. Mine had 137k on the odo when I got it.
The $8,000 figure is an AVERAGE. Of course some people are going to come out lower. Personally, I'd hate to see the figures for the ones on the other side of the curve! O_o
edit: I figure if it lasts to 200,000 miles, I have another 30,000 miles to shuttle the dog and save up for moving towards town...and for a scooter with a side car. It's an 85 lb rottie! I don't think I could do 85 lbs of constantly shifting cargo up the hill to the vet by pedalling. I can hear it now: would you like to drop her off or wait? I'll wait. *gasp* Across the street. *gasp* At the ice cream shop. *wheeze* or passed out in your lawn!
In all seriousness, I have a tentative understanding on the theory behind the $8,000 figure. The difference between my numbers and that average could be accounted for easily, and crunching a few numbers makes it a very believable average to me. As I understand it, the gap is average lifespan of the car. (Roody, you mentioned depreciation.) Price of car over it's serviceable life. For some, that gap would be the car payment. The average person would also have told me (lots of people did!) I should have looked at lower-mileage cars. Mine had 137k on the odo when I got it.
The $8,000 figure is an AVERAGE. Of course some people are going to come out lower. Personally, I'd hate to see the figures for the ones on the other side of the curve! O_o
edit: I figure if it lasts to 200,000 miles, I have another 30,000 miles to shuttle the dog and save up for moving towards town...and for a scooter with a side car. It's an 85 lb rottie! I don't think I could do 85 lbs of constantly shifting cargo up the hill to the vet by pedalling. I can hear it now: would you like to drop her off or wait? I'll wait. *gasp* Across the street. *gasp* At the ice cream shop. *wheeze* or passed out in your lawn!
Yes it is an average of what people choose to spend on their cars... not an average of what they needed to spend... Hence not a real reflection of the cost of car ownership.
#71
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I choose to spend zero and I need to spend zero, so we'll make zero the new norm.
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You're also still ignoring the major fact that for someone to keep the monthly cost as low as you have, then that person needs to be able to get next to the entire initial cost of the vehicle back upon either resale (which is only possible for a salesman of your caliber) or through a very fortunate insurance settlement. Say someone payed as much as you did for their vehicle, and then weren't able to sell it for whatever reason (and there are plenty of reasons why people can't resell a vehicle after nearly 3 years of use) so they just donate it. That brings your monthly cost up to ~$800.
And even if they were able to receive as high a percentage back as you did, then that monthly figure you gave only remains that low if they go car-free afterwards. If they buy another new or used car, then that's another cost to consider.
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Maybe I am just reading the wrong news stories.
#74
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"In a recent study by the Food Research and Action Center, when asked if there were times in the past year when you didn't have enough money to buy food that your family needed, one in four Americans answered "yes.""
But they got $200 to drop on a car!!!!
But they got $200 to drop on a car!!!!
#75
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