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Carfree inferiority complex?

Old 10-17-11, 11:20 AM
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Carfree inferiority complex?

I posted this on another thread, and it was suggested that I start a new thread. So here goes:
"And that's where the real issue lies, IMO. I wonder what it says about our underlying social assumptions when almost every person on a carfree forum apparently assumes that all young people must learn how to drive.

Are we assuming that driving is a basic required skill? Is driving more valued than not driving? Are people who drive somehow more learned than people who don't drive?"
The car culture is so strong, and we've been exposed to it from birth. Is it possible that even people on this carfree forum have an unconscious inferiority complex about being carfree?
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Old 10-17-11, 11:24 AM
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Driving a car is a skill that is very handy in our society. It gives you the option of using a car. I see nothing wrong with gaining that skill. If you feel it is morally wrong to use a car, then don't.
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Old 10-17-11, 11:28 AM
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Having a driver's license (Thus, learning to drive) opens options such as employment mobility; just like learning how to ride a bike opens the options to being able to live car free.
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Old 10-17-11, 11:28 AM
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i think learning to drive a car is an important life skill. i choose not to own a car and i rarely use them, but when a situation arises that the most practical way to get somewhere is either using a car from my local car-share or renting one from hertz/enterprise/avis/etc, i'm glad that i possess the skill set to take advantage of those options.
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Old 10-17-11, 11:40 AM
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Well, there is a bit of an inferiority complex out there. Not that that's why I think it's useful to have a car, but I often have to explain to people that I'm carfree by choice not because I can't afford a car or am not allowed to drive. I could afford a car if I wanted one (and my wife does, but I've convinced her that it's cheaper to rent a zip car the one weekend every other month that we'd use it than it would be to even pay for insurance let alone the other ancillary costs and she's down with that as well as the environmental benefits).
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Old 10-17-11, 11:54 AM
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I agree with the posters above. Knowing how to use a computer isn't a requirement for life. Many people live their lives without ever having touched a computer. But knowing how to use a computer allows for otherwise unreachable opportunities.

Just by way of observation, I also wanted to respond to the comment:

Is it possible that even people on this carfree forum have an unconscious inferiority complex about being carfree?
I believe the opposite to be true. People on this forum (present company included) have an unconscious superiority complex about being carfree. I was talking with a mountain biking friend of mine about going car free. He drives his V-6 truck the 3-1/2 miles to work. Mid-conversation, I noticed I was making him feel uncomfortable talking about my bicycle commute. I even offered to go out of my way to meet him at his house and ride with him. I find most people on this carfree forum would do the same in order to help their friends adopt a carfree (or car-limited) lifestyle. I wouldn't describe those people as having an inferiority complex.
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Old 10-17-11, 01:04 PM
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I don't see any suggestion of an inferiority complex. Having a driver's license can be useful in a number of situations even for those who don't have any intention of owning a car of their own. I also think that many people who don't bicycle would still view it as a skill that is nice to have.
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Old 10-17-11, 01:53 PM
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The sense I got from the thread in question was of an overbearing paternalism.

Some teenager asks for advice and everybody is telling him to get a drivers licence in case he might need it for an emergency, a job, for ID etc.

My advice would be "stop bothering me, go and do whatever you want" which is what he'll do anyway.
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Old 10-17-11, 02:12 PM
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What's interesting to me is that every time this comes up, so many are quick to point out that they could own a car if they wanted to. They're so afraid that people are going to think they're poor! Who cares? There's nothing wrong with not having a lot of money.
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Old 10-17-11, 02:17 PM
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Maybe I'm totally off-base on this. I certainly don't want to start another thread on whether young people should learn to drive.

But why does almost everybody on this forum think that knowing how to drive is so essential? Doesn't this reveal something about our own assumptions? If you say knowing how to drive is essential, then you're implying that there's something wrong with people who don't know how to drive.

It seems like some people here are sharing in the cultural belief that driving is a valuable activity--so valuable that everybody should learn how to do it.

Why don't we support Carfree Education in our high schools? Has nobody ever wondered why kids MUST learn to drive, but they have no formal opportunity to learn how to ride a bike, take a bus, carry a load, etc.?

It really seems like even people here have a hard time thinking outside the cage!
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Old 10-17-11, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ekdog
What's interesting to me is that every time this comes up, so many are quick to point out that they could own a car if they wanted to. They're so afraid that people are going to think they're poor! Who cares? There's nothing wrong with not having a lot of money.
Yes, I think you might be right that this is another expression of a carfree inferiority complex. Another is assuming that they must have a driver's license in order to get a job. In reality, a few employers require a car or driver's license, but the vast majority do not.
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Old 10-17-11, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
It really seems like even people here have a hard time thinking outside the cage!
Thinking outside the cage is easy when you live outside it.
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Old 10-17-11, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
But why does almost everybody on this forum think that knowing how to drive is so essential? Doesn't this reveal something about our own assumptions? If you say knowing how to drive is essential, then you're implying that there's something wrong with people who don't know how to drive.

It seems like some people here are sharing in the cultural belief that driving is a valuable activity--so valuable that everybody should learn how to do it.
My guess on why many thinks it is important or at least good to have a drivers license is that we (as I am one of them who believes in the benefits of having a license) assume that most societies are built around cars and because of that it can come handy to know how (and legally are allowed) to drive. That doesn't implicate anything on what we think about persons that doesn't have a drivers license. It may though implicate that we think that they are running a bigger risk in getting in transportation trouble (e.g. when to move or whatever). Many people show everyday that it is possible to live carfree and that it doesn't need to be harder than having a license. We know that. Don't over analyze.
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Old 10-17-11, 03:12 PM
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There are many skills which are valuable if you live in our society - those include being able to drive, being able to perform CPR, knowing how to use a telephone, knowing how to open the cap on a bottle of aspirin, and being able to express a complete thought in 140 characters or less. If we go back in history just over 100 years, these skills would be unknown or rare, so it is clear that none of them are essential to survival, and indeed, it is very possible to live in today's society without any of these skills. Equally there are skills that once were vital, and now are rare: knowing which wild foods you can eat, knowing how to spin, weave and make your own clothes, knowing how to lead a horse as it plows a field. Although none of these skills, modern or ancient, are essential, I believe that the more of them you can master, the better off you are, I do not believe that failure to master any skill is a mark of inferiority, or a mark of superiority.
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Old 10-17-11, 04:44 PM
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In this society, there come opportunities that you may only be able to take advantage of if you drive.

Next weekend, I'll be teaching some classes at a remote location. It's too far for cycling. There are no trains, no buses, no planes, no sub-orbital flights and taxis would be exorbitant. So driving to the event is the most practical way to get there.

Teaching these classes have led me to getting a contract to write a book and to being paid to teach similar classes elsewhere. So it's not an opportunity to miss, and requires driving skills to achieve.

It's going to be a lot of work before most people can go car-free. A few of us can just peel away from the car for the most part. But to really integrate a car-free lifestyle we have to revamp our transportation, we have to remodel our neighborhoods and re-educate our neighbors. That's going to take a while.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 10-17-11, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
Maybe I'm totally off-base on this. I certainly don't want to start another thread on whether young people should learn to drive.

But why does almost everybody on this forum think that knowing how to drive is so essential? Doesn't this reveal something about our own assumptions? If you say knowing how to drive is essential, then you're implying that there's something wrong with people who don't know how to drive.

It seems like some people here are sharing in the cultural belief that driving is a valuable activity--so valuable that everybody should learn how to do it.

Why don't we support Carfree Education in our high schools? Has nobody ever wondered why kids MUST learn to drive, but they have no formal opportunity to learn how to ride a bike, take a bus, carry a load, etc.?

It really seems like even people here have a hard time thinking outside the cage!
I was one in the other thread who suggested he wait on getting a license. An 18-year old will have very few opportunities to drive if he doesn't own a car. Why bother with a license?

If a young person lives the car-free lifestyle, falls in with others that do also, marries and has children with another car-free person, they'll probably never need a license.

Most of the time, that won't happen, and some point in life we'll need to borrow or rent a car, but not until later in life.
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Old 10-17-11, 07:24 PM
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More Skills > Less Skills
More knowledge > Less Knowledge
More Options > Less Options

Since the price of gaining a DL in the US is very low it makes sense to get it, IMHO but I realize that this is not the case in every situation where a DL really has little value, such as in NYC. Also, a DL allows you to get an International DL which, if you are like me and travel a lot, has come in very handy several times.
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Old 10-17-11, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dcrowell
I was one in the other thread who suggested he wait on getting a license. An 18-year old will have very few opportunities to drive if he doesn't own a car. Why bother with a license?
That all depends on circumstances. I drove a lot as a teen without a car. I happily took over a lot of chores like grocery shopping and going to do the laundry for the chance to drive. As a junior in High School, I would drive 30 miles a day or more before school and another 30 after school.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 10-17-11, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker
Thinking outside the cage is easy when you live outside it.
The real cage is inside your mind. If a person is raised with constant messages of how wonderful and essential the car is, It's going to be difficult for him/her to even recognize that the cage is there.
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Old 10-17-11, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zeppinger
More Skills > Less Skills
More knowledge > Less Knowledge
More Options > Less Options

Since the price of gaining a DL in the US is very low it makes sense to get it, IMHO but I realize that this is not the case in every situation where a DL really has little value, such as in NYC. Also, a DL allows you to get an International DL which, if you are like me and travel a lot, has come in very handy several times.
I also want to know everything. I borrow 11 library books, even though there's only enough time to read two of them. I spent a couple extra years in college (and thousands of dollars) because I wanted to take every elective.

But there isn't enough time or money to learn everything. High school students in particular are pressed for time and cash. They have to make hard choices about which knowledge and skills they should pursue.

So why is it that almost everybody on the forum thought that driving was one of the most important skills to acquire si early in life? Maybe, as many people said, it's because that's the way the world is, and everybody must learn to drive in order to survive or at least prosper.

I grant that in some cases this is true, but I think there's a lot more to it. I think another reason that people so firmly insist that driving is essential is that we have been raised to believe this. Since birth, we have been exposed to millions of messages that push driving. We're taken home from the hospital in a car, and driven almost everywhere we go through childhood. We're fed constant advertising about cars, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Getting a DL is our first rite of passage, like baptism, spirit quest, or killing an animal used to be

With all this brainwashing and cultural baggage, is it maybe a little hard for us to give a young person the impartial advice that he's entitled to? Is it hard for us to see that we may from time to time experience a carfree inferiority complex without even realizing it?
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Old 10-17-11, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker
The sense I got from the thread in question was of an overbearing paternalism.

Some teenager [i]asks for advice [/B]and everybody is telling him to get a drivers licence in case he might need it for an emergency, a job, for ID etc.

My advice would be "stop bothering me, go and do whatever you want" which is what he'll do anyway.
Did you not notice the part I bolded? Of course, people who ask for advice are always free to (and likely to) ignore it and do whatever they want, but hey, he asked for our opinions, and he's entitled to receive them. It may bother you when someone asks for your opinion, in which case the thread title "...should I [get a license]?" should have warned you off that thread.

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Old 10-17-11, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
The real cage is inside your mind. If a person is raised with constant messages of how wonderful and essential the car is, It's going to be difficult for him/her to even recognize that the cage is there.
I don't think he's getting the message a car is wonderful from us.
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Old 10-17-11, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
I also want to know everything. I borrow 11 library books, even though there's only enough time to read two of them. I spent a couple extra years in college (and thousands of dollars) because I wanted to take every elective.

But there isn't enough time or money to learn everything. High school students in particular are pressed for time and cash. They have to make hard choices about which knowledge and skills they should pursue.

So why is it that almost everybody on the forum thought that driving was one of the most important skills to acquire si early in life? Maybe, as many people said, it's because that's the way the world is, and everybody must learn to drive in order to survive or at least prosper.

I grant that in some cases this is true, but I think there's a lot more to it. I think another reason that people so firmly insist that driving is essential is that we have been raised to believe this. Since birth, we have been exposed to millions of messages that push driving. We're taken home from the hospital in a car, and driven almost everywhere we go through childhood. We're fed constant advertising about cars, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Getting a DL is our first rite of passage, like baptism, spirit quest, or killing an animal used to be

With all this brainwashing and cultural baggage, is it maybe a little hard for us to give a young person the impartial advice that he's entitled to? Is it hard for us to see that we may from time to time experience a carfree inferiority complex without even realizing it?
I get what your saying Roody, a lot of good points in there that I agree with. Like anything else, if you choose to spend a limited amount of time/money on learning to drive then you are going to have to subtract somehwere else. However, don't we here on the LCF forum also try to express that, while the bicycle is an essential part of LCF, its also just one tool in a multitude of different tactics that we take to achieve our goals? LCF requires flexiblity and the more transportation options a person has the better. Right now he can't rent a car because he is too young but he can certainly borrow the family car from time to time. There are a lot of perfectly logical reasons to want to get a DL even if you plan to live car-free. For example, should his living conditions suddenly change, like when he goes to school, a car might be inevitable or at least highly useful and there may not be time to learn the skills. I agree that society looks down on people who never bother to get their DL but I dont think thats what was happening on the related thread.
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Old 10-17-11, 11:19 PM
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We need to make a distinction here. Driving is NOT a necessity, despite how many may feel, but an addiction. I get that. Getting a lisence to drive, however, in modern society IS a necessity. Most employers who offer decent pay require having a lisence wether you drive or not. So get your lisence if you don't already have one, but skip the car. They're gross.
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Old 10-17-11, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippiebrian
We need to make a distinction here. Driving is NOT a necessity, despite how many may feel, but an addiction. I get that. Getting a lisence to drive, however, in modern society IS a necessity. Most employers who offer decent pay require having a lisence wether you drive or not. So get your lisence if you don't already have one, but skip the car. They're gross.
On what are you basing this factoid? I've never had an employer ask to see my license.
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