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We are the 1 % .... but are carfree people elitist?

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We are the 1 % .... but are carfree people elitist?

Old 12-05-11, 02:55 PM
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We are the 1 % .... but are carfree people elitist?

Only on Opposite Day, according to the Dissident Voice.

"So, what is that meaning? How is elitism defined such that sustainable lifestyle advocates and adherents fall within its purview? Journalists and bloggers who bemoan what they view as the biking elite usually refer to perceived attitude and behavior, using terms such as “holier-than-thou,” “infuriating smugness,” and “urban piety.” They seem to perceive the very act of bicycling as a commentary on the ills of car culture and imagine a homogenous aggregate of power pedaled paraders on which they impute adversarial characteristics.

While the attitude of an individual bicyclist on any variety of issues is an empirical question, I’m more interested in how “one of the cheapest forms of transportation on the planet is construed as elitist” by virtue of its users’ perceived attitude, “whereas one of the most expensive and resource-intensive technologies is considered populist.”
"
https://dissidentvoice.org/2011/12/go...-opposite-day/
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Old 12-05-11, 03:48 PM
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0.0025% read 'dissident voice', probably because it's almost unreadable.

How elitist is that?
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Old 12-05-11, 04:00 PM
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Elitism doesn't have to be based on material wealth. It can simply be reverse snobbery on the part of those who look at themselves as doing something special by using "one of the cheapest forms of transportation" in the midst of a culture built around "one of the most expensive and resource-intensive technologies."

I find "green elitism" to be an undeniable phenomenon, and I find it all over the "cycling culture". All you have to do is go over to A&S and a number of the other subforums and read a few of the threads there - the talk about "cagers", for example. Don't you have to consider yourself part of an elite to have a disparaging nickname for the 99% of the population that behaves differently than you do?

Speaking of A&S, I've lurked on a few of the endless threads there, and even made the mistake of letting myself get sucked into one pissing match over helmets. (I've since seen that there are a couple of guys who just wait by the side of the trail for a newbie to join it the discussion, and then pounce...)

I see three factions, arguing among themselves incessantly. One faction thinks that bicycles should seize the road, and to hell with the 99% of the other road users who are trying to get somewhere. Another thinks that we should redesign streets to be one-lane wide, reduce the speed limits to 20 mph except on highways, and station law enforcement personnel as densely as possible to make sure the rights of the 1% are respected. And the last thinks we should spend billions of dollars (when we can't even get funding for schools and libraries), to build a vast system of bikeways where other vehicles aren't allowed.

Underlying all of these ideas is the basic belief that WE, as cyclists, are doing something special and virtuous, and that the other 99% of society should do whatever it takes to cater to our needs/desires, because the way we live is BETTER than the way they live. If that isn't the definition of elitism, I don't know what is.

So yeah, guilty as charged.
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Old 12-05-11, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
0.0025% read 'dissident voice', probably because it's almost unreadable.

How elitist is that?
How elitist is it to criticize the writing style rather than their opinions?
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Old 12-05-11, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tony_merlino View Post
Elitism doesn't have to be based on material wealth. It can simply be reverse snobbery on the part of those who look at themselves as doing something special by using "one of the cheapest forms of transportation" in the midst of a culture built around "one of the most expensive and resource-intensive technologies."

I find "green elitism" to be an undeniable phenomenon, and I find it all over the "cycling culture". All you have to do is go over to A&S and a number of the other subforums and read a few of the threads there - the talk about "cagers", for example. Don't you have to consider yourself part of an elite to have a disparaging nickname for the 99% of the population that behaves differently than you do?

Speaking of A&S, I've lurked on a few of the endless threads there, and even made the mistake of letting myself get sucked into one pissing match over helmets. (I've since seen that there are a couple of guys who just wait by the side of the trail for a newbie to join it the discussion, and then pounce...)

I see three factions, arguing among themselves incessantly. One faction thinks that bicycles should seize the road, and to hell with the 99% of the other road users who are trying to get somewhere. Another thinks that we should redesign streets to be one-lane wide, reduce the speed limits to 20 mph except on highways, and station law enforcement personnel as densely as possible to make sure the rights of the 1% are respected. And the last thinks we should spend billions of dollars (when we can't even get funding for schools and libraries), to build a vast system of bikeways where other vehicles aren't allowed.

Underlying all of these ideas is the basic belief that WE, as cyclists, are doing something special and virtuous, and that the other 99% of society should do whatever it takes to cater to our needs/desires, because the way we live is BETTER than the way they live. If that isn't the definition of elitism, I don't know what is.

So yeah, guilty as charged.
In the real world (as opposed to the A&S forum), I see no such elitism. My city has passed Complete Streets, mandatory bike rack law, and a Non-Motor Traffic Master Plan, among other measures that are friendly to cyclists. We didn't do this by being elitist. We did it by pointing out the advantages to the whole city, and by coming up with innovative ways of writing laws that don't require huge expenditures to get good results. The political and business leaders in this community are falling over themselves to support cycling infrastructure, after a lot of hard work by friendly but persuasive advocates.

BTW, my city happens to be one of the major automobile manufacturing centers of the world. It also shares the economic difficulties that you've probably heard about in Michigan. Only 10 years ago, the people here turned down a big federal grant because they thought a bike lane would interfere with with delivery of auto parts. Now that same road has bike lanes on it's entire length, paid for a small percentage of reconstruction costs that's required by the Complete Streets law. This could never have been accomplished by elitists!
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Old 12-05-11, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
In the real world (as opposed to the A&S forum), I see no such elitism. My city has passed Complete Streets, mandatory bike rack law, and a Non-Motor Traffic Master Plan, among other measures that are friendly to cyclists. We didn't do this by being elitist. We did it by pointing out the advantages to the whole city, and by coming up with innovative ways of writing laws that don't require huge expenditures to get good results. The political and business leaders in this community are falling over themselves to support cycling infrastructure, after a lot of hard work by friendly but persuasive advocates.

BTW, my city happens to be one of the major automobile manufacturing centers of the world. It also shares the economic difficulties that you've probably heard about in Michigan. Only 10 years ago, the people here turned down a big federal grant because they thought a bike lane would interfere with with delivery of auto parts. Now that same road has bike lanes on it's entire length, paid for a small percentage of reconstruction costs that's required by the Complete Streets law. This could never have been accomplished by elitists!
To be fair, I've never met an elitist cyclist in real life. Maybe all of them are so busy on the internet, they have no time to ride? I'm certainly not an elitist. I'm trying to go car-lite mostly because (a) I really need the exercise, (b) figuring out how to do it in a hostile environment is an interesting challenge, and (c) I LOVE riding a bike, when I'm not on roads where people are trying to kill me.

Edit: Correction. I AM an East Coast Liberal Elitist, but that has nothing to do with bicycles.
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Old 12-05-11, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
How elitist is it to criticize the writing style rather than their opinions?
Well, if something is almost unreadable it's hard to know what their opinions are.

"Once upon a time in these great States cars were scarce; average Americans relied on public transportation and the muscles of their Olphalanges to get from A to B."

I'm not an American and I don't live in America so I'm not qualified to criticise its content.
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Old 12-05-11, 04:39 PM
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I don't know what olphalanges are, but I hope they get a good workout when I ride my bike.
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Old 12-05-11, 05:55 PM
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I'd say some cyclists are total elitists, but they are usually elitist in other respects as well. It always comes down to a self righteous view of their own lifestyle and how misguided and wrong other folk's lifestyle choices are.

Now take that above sentence and swap the word "cyclists" with any other word of your choosing. Pretty much anyone that proselytizes anything to an extreme is going to get on a lot of people's nerves. This is the problem with humans. It's possible to enjoy your lifestyle, have friends who agree with you, and even have nice chats with strangers about it without coming off as an elitist a-hole. But for some folks, they just get this drive under their skin and insist that more people should be doing what they are doing right now. Just drop everything, see the "light" and follow.
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Old 12-05-11, 05:55 PM
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99% to 1%....Of course the 99% is going to be defensive...because their children will like it...and join us!
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Old 12-05-11, 07:35 PM
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I'll take the word "Elitist" over some of the other names given to me! LOL!
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Old 12-05-11, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
I'll take the word "Elitist" over some of the other names given to me! LOL!
Hear, hear!

I do find it amusing that a cyclist who rides lawfully is considered smug and elitist by motorists who are not driving lawfully. It is also interesting that many people, even on this subforum, assume that motorists are "trying to get somewhere" while cyclists are just screwing around and in their way. 80% of all driving is either recreational or involves "personal errands", and that seems no more important than my trips to buy supplies for my business, shopping runs or even my training rides.

I guess I am an elitist in the same sense as the old slogan about feminists (those who believe in the radical notion that women are people).
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Old 12-05-11, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I don't know what olphalanges are, but I hope they get a good workout when I ride my bike.
This is ironic. I have never heard the term before and I can barely pronounce the word, yet mine are aching tonight... possibly too much mashing on the platform pedals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanges_of_the_foot
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Old 12-06-11, 12:52 AM
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its not the act of riding a bike its the person's attitude and worldview they seem to be pointing at.
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Old 12-06-11, 04:20 AM
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I don't see myself as elitist. Just ahead of the curve. Riding a bike isn't better. Any 6 year old can do it. But people haven't figured out how cool it is just yet.
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I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
Hear, hear!

I do find it amusing that a cyclist who rides lawfully is considered smug and elitist by motorists who are not driving lawfully. It is also interesting that many people, even on this subforum, assume that motorists are "trying to get somewhere" while cyclists are just screwing around and in their way. 80% of all driving is either recreational or involves "personal errands", and that seems no more important than my trips to buy supplies for my business, shopping runs or even my training rides.

I guess I am an elitist in the same sense as the old slogan about feminists (those who believe in the radical notion that women are people).
I think the only people who are considered smug and elitist are the ones who promote an "us versus them" view with respect to motorists, and who make it clear that they consider "us" to be better than "them". Or, to put it another way, people who act smug and elitist are considered smug and elitist.

I don't think anyone said cyclists are screwing around, no matter purpose what they're riding for. I know I didn't. But what difference would that make with respect to a smug and elitist attitude, if they had one?
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Old 12-06-11, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hipster_Killa View Post
its not the act of riding a bike its the person's attitude and worldview they seem to be pointing at.
What can you tell about a person's attitude and worldview based on them riding a bike?
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Old 12-06-11, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
What can you tell about a person's attitude and worldview based on them riding a bike?
Depends on whether they ride one of those Dutch bikes or not.
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Old 12-06-11, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
I don't see myself as elitist. Just ahead of the curve. Riding a bike isn't better. Any 6 year old can do it. But people haven't figured out how cool it is just yet.
One man's elite is another man's urban guerrilla. You really can't tell much from seeing a person riding a bike (even if it is Dutch..) They are probably in better than average health. They have probably reduced their transportion expenses. They probably are doing something they like.
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Old 12-09-11, 02:37 PM
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My uncle Todd once said "When you think you're better than the rest of the traffic on the road, keep thinking that, 'cause you are." Elitist? yes, but probably true. I find that one reason I can strap on my ski goggles and pedal myself around when its 20 degrees out is because of that feeling I get when I'm at a traffic light and everyone in the car to my left is looking at me like I've got silly puddy for brains.

I think any humans choosing to participate in a free activity that improves their health, makes mother earth happy, and inexpensively moves them from point A to B isn't elitist, they've just found a lifestyle that most of the population doesn't know anything about and, therefore, has to hate.
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Old 12-09-11, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by peddlenow View Post
My uncle Todd once said "When you think you're better than the rest of the traffic on the road, keep thinking that, 'cause you are." Elitist? yes, but probably true. I find that one reason I can strap on my ski goggles and pedal myself around when its 20 degrees out is because of that feeling I get when I'm at a traffic light and everyone in the car to my left is looking at me like I've got silly puddy for brains.

I think any humans choosing to participate in a free activity that improves their health, makes mother earth happy, and inexpensively moves them from point A to B isn't elitist, they've just found a lifestyle that most of the population doesn't know anything about and, therefore, has to hate.
Elitism doesn't depend on what other people think of you; it depends on what YOU think of THEM, and more importantly, what YOU think of YOURSELF.

I have to admit, when I ride around on my bike and feel the hostility (am I projecting?), it's not hard to start thinking of myself as a member of some poorly understood, persecuted, but morally superior elite. Kind of the way early christians must have felt.

When that happens, I just try to remember that I'm doing what I'm doing because I think it makes me happy, and they're doing what they're doing because they think it makes them happy. Then we're all the same again.
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Old 12-12-11, 03:16 PM
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In my area, the car-free aren't smug liberal elitists in spandex, they're poor, Latino immigrants, pedaling to work in blue jeans. They probably wish they had a car when it's 25 degrees out like this AM. Being political or a policy wonk about basic transportation is a luxury- the elitists are the ones writing about it & telling everybody else what to do.
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Old 12-12-11, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by vinfix View Post
In my area, the car-free aren't smug liberal elitists in spandex, they're poor, Latino immigrants, pedaling to work in blue jeans. They probably wish they had a car when it's 25 degrees out like this AM. Being political or a policy wonk about basic transportation is a luxury- the elitists are the ones writing about it & telling everybody else what to do.
+ infinity.

Being carfree is a lot like celibacy. If you're celibate by choice, because you took a vow, then you're really special - you even dress in funny clothes so everyone knows how special you are. If you're celibate involuntarily, then you're just a poor schmuck who can't get any...
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Old 12-12-11, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tony_merlino View Post
Depends on whether they ride one of those Dutch bikes or not.

Wait! What's wrong with dutch bikes? I'm planning on buying one. It would be nice to wear longer skirts some days without worrying if they'll catch in the chain. It's not like I'm going to be in any rush with a 3 year old following behind on his trike.
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Old 12-12-11, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
0.0025% read 'dissident voice', probably because it's almost unreadable.

How elitist is that?
By this logic, you could say only an elite read and understand Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

In which case, I would say, "That God for the elite! Where would we be without them."

To my mind, there's nothing inherently wrong with being a member of an elite.

Originally Posted by Suburban View Post
Wait! What's wrong with dutch bikes? I'm planning on buying one. It would be nice to wear longer skirts some days without worrying if they'll catch in the chain. It's not like I'm going to be in any rush with a 3 year old following behind on his trike.
These are the same people who foo-foo chain guards. They also have pants with many black tatoos. (Perhaps it's jealousy? )
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