Roody

This is an interesting article on Slate.com about why motorists hate cyclists...and why they are wrong. It's written by Jim Saksa, who admits that he himself is an a-hole cyclist.

https://www.slate.com/articles/health...o_wheels_.html

gerv 

I all too frequently hear automobile drivers complain about scofflaw cyclists.

"They go through red lights. The don't stop at stop signs. They don't obey traffic rules."

My response is always, "Have you every driven over the speed limit?"

That usually ends the conversation.

GeoKrpan

Here, in SoCal, the most numerous bike riders are illegal aliens. My brother lived in Michigan for nine years and there it was presumed you had lost your license due to drunkedness. I got stopped by a cop for riding on the sidewalk and he said, people riding bikes are usually transient types.

I think it could also be sour grapes. I have liberated myself from the car and I'm healthy and fit.
I would describe the majority of the grouchy drivers I have had confrontations with as, diabetes poster child.

Roody

Stereotype much?

gerv 

I actually don't think most car drivers hate cyclists. Many of them are cyclists or have friends or relatives who ride.

But there is a small minority....

melvinator

You are totally right! Here in florida its the same thing good 9/10 people seen on a bike are considered "bums, transients, without a job or care for one, or lost licenese due to too many DUI's.
Some times people ask me why use a bike and i have to explain that i ride out of choice to improve my health and never hurts to save a few bucks in the long run. (even though i feel i spend just as much at me LBS) ha-ha.

Rapidoyfurioso

How can you determine if they are illegal?

Ekdog

Why 'illegal immigrant' is a slur.

'Illegal alien' is even worse.

OldManRiley

Well, saying "foreign national who (a) crossed the border without authorization or (b) over-stayed a formerly valid student/employment visa in contravention of United States law" gets to be a bit of a mouthful. Congratulations on finding a Hispanic author who caters to the Hispanic community who ran an op-ed piece going ballistic over semantics. https://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/06/op...ant/index.html. There's the counter-point, for anyone who is interested (also written by a Hispanic author, interestingly).

Astrozombie

IDK what it is about "illegal alien" that makes me burst out with laughter, i think i picture a little grey man like Roger from American Dad. More like they tend to be poorer people of color? A ton of people ride carelessly both on and off the sidewalks so i wouldn't be surprised if we were hated big time in socal.

RoadTrick

I think the story goes both ways - it is not hard to agree that there are quite a few people that drive cars, who will complain about you biking no matter how close you try to ride next to the pavement. For them, anything that is not a car, is an obstacle (and I hate catching a ride from folks who spend educating the biker with their windows rolled up, making me take all of that in), but that is not everyone.

Now, the cyclists, that is a different side to the story. Yes, plenty of risk-taking, red-light ignoring, left-turn-no-signal riders, who can create terrifying situations, causing fear, frustration and anger. I do not support such erratic behavior, and hate being a part of such situation (as a passenger, or a fellow rider passing by). My question is - why would anyone in their sanity choose to creative a potentially life-threatening moment? It won't be the guy with four-wheels that goes down first!

Every person who transports himself on a road that is filled with other drivers and riders should feel respectful towards other people on the road and most importantly, his own life. In the end, it is about riding and enjoying your healthy body in full.

Roody

I thought about this as I read the article. Certainly there are cyclists who hate cars (just check out the Advocacy and Safety subforum to see lots of that). The difference is that most cyclists are also motorists, so they have to use even more convoluted and illogical thinking to support their thinking about fellow motorists.

As a psychologist, this article really interested me. Tom Vanderbilt (and others) have written about the "Lake Wobegon* effect in drivers. They all think they themselves are good drivers, but just about everybody else is a bad driver. Obviously they can't all be right!

*Garrison Keillor said of Lake Wobegon, his fictional small town, that "all of the children are above average." This is statistically impossible, just like it's impossible for everybody to be a better than average driver.

GeoKrpan

I should have said, if you're riding a bike and you are swarthy of complexion, you are thought to be illegal.
BTW, I fit the description.

Don't make out like there's not a lot of illegals in Southern California. I have lived here all my life, I know better.

BTW, I love Mexican people. I say, keep the Mexicans, get rid of the rednecks.

GeoKrpan

Ooooh, I've been politically incorrect.

telkanuru

Actually, I think what he's saying is that your choice of terms is pretty frickin' racist.

Roody

No, you've been racist and ignorant.

GeoKrpan

That term was in use long before it became politically incorrect. It is wrong, and mean, for you to assume that those that use it are motivated by racism.

Roody

Which term? You used a lot of racist terms on this thread. The worst racists are the ones who don't even know that they're racist.

Now let's get bck to our topic, which was "Why I hate cyclists," not "Why I hate Mexicans and southern whites."

cali_axela

I fully admit to not following many of the traffic laws designed for cars that supposedly apply to bikes as well; however, I do it with the best intentions, of being both as safe as possible, and as minor of an obstacle for cars as possible. For instance, rolling through a 4-way stop while following a car who's going the same direction as me, instead of coming to a complete stop then slowly going through on my own, taking up much more time to all the other cars from other directions. Or, running a red light when there's no cross traffic but there's a car behind me waiting to turn right (just to get out of their way so they can legally turn right on the red). I like to think that the majority of drivers realize I'm just doing my part to flow well with traffic, not be an impatient dick.

telkanuru

Stop. Stop and think about this. "N**** was in use long before it became politically incorrect. It is wrong, and mean, for you to assume that those that use it are motivated by racism."

That doesn't sound too good, does it.

Smallwheels

When I finish my video production course I intend to make several videos about society. One of them will be a big logical explanation about why bicycles are good for car drivers. It will answer all of their questions about cyclists (if they have any) and explain to them why more cyclists give drivers more room. All of them should really love that. Once they get the hatred out of their minds and get a new perspective, they'll be more supportive of cyclists. Once I post it, all of us will need to spread it around the web and hope it grows enough to make a difference. It will be a few months until I'm done so don't expect it soon.

Ekdog

I look forward to seeing that video. If I were a driver, I'd want to see more people walking, cycling and using mass transit, not fewer.

wbuttry

well illeagel alien is what you call them that is what border patrol agents are told to call them my brother is a border patrol agent and that is the term to use . unless you want us to call them wet backs or tacos but i dont talk like that as my fiancee is mexican she is a born us citizen her dad was a mexican and mom white . And the n word is not used for just people of color it is used to define a nasty worth less trashy person. either way both words are not nice to say regardless and should be done away with . Changing the subject in mo you can run a red light and turn left on red IF there is no oncoming traffic and the helmet law is enforced in my area dont know about all of mo but in the lower bootheel. I'm a cyclelist and the reason i hate us is cause we are smart arses...

kmv2

I'm nearly at a point where I can just tune them (drivers/cagers) out as almost a background noise.

I still laugh when I do a hand signal for a right turn and a driver passing by thinks I'm waving "hello" and then waves back at me. I've seen a few people around town do sort of a "heil hitler" to show they are going straight, so I do that sometimes also.

Which brings up another point on both sides of the argument.. As a cyclist, when I first started cycling in an urban environment, I had no idea it was illegal to ride on the sidewalk, I didn't know how to signal a turn, I didn't know about blinky lights for visibility. Now this may seem like common sense things to everyone in here, but a lot of new cyclists just do not have the knowledge. Maybe the proper advocacy and education is not there yet, who knows. The only "education" we seem to get are police crackdowns and ticketing.

As a driver, hand signals are a blip of your driver's ed training, quickly forgotten like mirror checks, speed limits and courtesy/respect/patience. Also there is the assumption that roads are made for cars and only cars, or that car licensing fees somehow pay for road construction (when in most cases they don't even come close). I hand signal hoping to be understood but I always assume that the driver has no idea what I mean and approach any interaction cautiously yet confidently (no swerving, predictable movements, etc).

And can we stop talking about "illegal aliens"?

In any case, I find when someone makes a comment like that about cyclists in general like "they're all transients!", you can just as easily make a comparison to them about car drivers. Just about anyone who can breathe is allowed to obtain a license. Visit some poor rural community, everyone has a car somehow (or how would they get to Wal Mart?). If all cyclists were transients, that could make all car drivers rusted out no muffler Pontiac Grand Am driving trailer trash.

Roody

There are several good points in this interesting post.

I agree that a lot of the "ignorance" you see among everyday cyclists is a failure of the bicycle community to embrace newcomers and the diversity of cycling. Outside of major cities, bicycle advocacy and education is mostly still in the hands of bike clubs, whose main focus is organzing races and club road rides. These well-meaning folks unfortunately discriminate between "serious cyclists" and "butts on bikes." Many club activists see cycling as a sport, expensive hobby, and/or form of exercize. They don't think deeply about bicycling also being a "serious" mode of transportation for many people.

As for hand signals, I have thrown out the vehicle code in my own riding. As you suggest, a lot of motorists no longer understand the old hand signals, and even if they do the signals can be misinterpreted as a wave or crazy hand-flailing.

I just point, literally, to where I'm going, and even stab my arm in that direction several times. If I'm taking the lane, I hold my left arm straight out, with the palm to the rear, to indicate to following motorists that they must stay behind me. When I want them to pass me, I turn my palm forward and roll my arm in a circle-- a "c'mon, y'all" gesture. If they still don't pass, I make the gesture faster and more emphatic, and give them an annoyed look if necessary. When motorists do what I want them to do, I give them a wave and a smile.

I think the main point is to increase safety by communicating clearly with drivers. Also, we must be be willing to take charge of the situation when dealing with drivers who don't know what they're doing, or who want to do something that's wrong. Relying on outmoded and ambiguous--but legal--hand signals--increases cyclist danger.