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This was an eye opener

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This was an eye opener

Old 11-21-12, 08:41 PM
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This was an eye opener

The 5 year cost of owning various vehicles on Edmond's and many vehicles such as a 2004 used Honda odyssey can cost $44,000 over a 5 year period.
A typical Chevy Silverado 2009 used can cost 54,000 in a five year period. The least expensive vehicle I found was about $30,000 over a 5 year period, now these are newer cars as I couldn't get data for older cars, but it got me thinking of how much we pay to drive a car, now if I was rich well maybe it wouldn't matter so much, but an eye oper never the rest, 30 to $50,000 in the bank makes a difference.
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Old 11-21-12, 09:19 PM
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Yes, there is a cost involved in driving and yes, that cost is significant. However, there are also costs involved in cycling and taking the transit. Car-free costs are normally going to be quite a bit less than the costs of driving, but those costs must be considered when weighing the financial benefits of going car-free.
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Old 11-21-12, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SPECELIZEDRIDER View Post
now if I was rich well maybe it wouldn't matter so much, but an eye oper never the rest, 30 to $50,000 in the bank makes a difference.
That's why I don't know how much my bike is worth. It was a freebie. But in the 8 years I've owned it, I've put several hundred dollars into maintenance and upgrades, and it's saved me tens of thousands over operating a car.
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Old 11-21-12, 10:50 PM
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I don't look at the numbers anymore since it doesn't effect me. It just seems unimaginable how people can pay that kind of money. I guess I'm terrible with money today and can use a budget. That's one of the beauty's of being carfree is that I don't have to skimp on food, clothing or public transportation. I'm no longer pinching pennies anymore.
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Old 11-21-12, 11:32 PM
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I am amazed of the actual cost, and it make car free more appealing, as I can rent when I need to but I would rather have money in my pocket.
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Old 11-22-12, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SPECELIZEDRIDER View Post
I am amazed of the actual cost, and it make car free more appealing, as I can rent when I need to but I would rather have money in my pocket.
I have been car free for over 10yrs now. Recently I took 5yrs off from "a real job".
money comes and goes. Time goes one way. You can make and spend money, but when your day is done, it's never coming back.
so be careful or at least mindful as to how we acquiesce our days.
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Old 11-22-12, 01:36 AM
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This is a really great reference
https://203.77.194.71:81/present-cour...and_equity.pdf
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Old 11-22-12, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SPECELIZEDRIDER View Post
The 5 year cost of owning various vehicles on Edmond's and many vehicles such as a 2004 used Honda odyssey can cost $44,000 over a 5 year period.
A typical Chevy Silverado 2009 used can cost 54,000 in a five year period. The least expensive vehicle I found was about $30,000 over a 5 year period, now these are newer cars as I couldn't get data for older cars, but it got me thinking of how much we pay to drive a car, now if I was rich well maybe it wouldn't matter so much, but an eye oper never the rest, 30 to $50,000 in the bank makes a difference.
Your low end, $500 a month, is a pretty fair estimate, although most car owners will get red-faced and argue with you that they spend much less (though few will take the time to first consider insurance, depreciation, repairs, etc., and do the math).

The real eye opener is the analysis of discretionary income, especially for the 'working poor'. Say someone makes $15 an hour, or about $2500 gross a month. They might take home maybe $1800 a month. What's an average rent for a modest apartment, say 750? Add in $100 for power, $150 for cable, internet and cell phone. Maybe they spend $300 for groceries and eating out. That's a quick and easy $1300 spent, without any unusual expenses.

What's left?: $500 to spend any way you wish. And the vast majority will spend the entire $500 on a car without thinking twice about alternatives, or making any kind of budget. They are trapped in an eternal cycle of poverty, and never notice the 3,000 pound anchor tied to their necks, or consider releiving themselves of that burden and having a chance to decide how to save, invest and enjoy the benefits of that small portion of their income which is truly discretionary.

Originally Posted by AsanaCycles View Post
That was an interesting read. He makes a seemingly valid point, but offers little evidence along the way to back up his claims (not that I'm doubting them). I think he's spot on about the vortex of faster transportation ironically putting desired destinations further out of reach, especially for the poor.

But, I'd say that the internet and efficient delivery have begun to eat away at the problem since this was published. They allow you to 'shop' virtually at a practically unreachable destination, and have the goods delivered to you at a small fraction of the cost of travelling both ways.
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Old 11-22-12, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SPECELIZEDRIDER View Post
The 5 year cost of owning various vehicles on Edmond's and many vehicles such as a 2004 used Honda odyssey can cost $44,000 over a 5 year period.
A typical Chevy Silverado 2009 used can cost 54,000 in a five year period. The least expensive vehicle I found was about $30,000 over a 5 year period, now these are newer cars as I couldn't get data for older cars, but it got me thinking of how much we pay to drive a car, now if I was rich well maybe it wouldn't matter so much, but an eye oper never the rest, 30 to $50,000 in the bank makes a difference.
Do you have a link for this?
There's some folks I'd love to show this to.
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Old 11-22-12, 10:44 AM
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We live on $25-26,000 net a year, there's no way we can actually afford to have a car, we've found that out by having 2 cars reposesed over the last 10 years! You, THINK you can but if ANYTHING happens financially, guess what "doesn't get paid" and your SOL and like us, have basicly ruined credit. So we got rid of the biggest financial problem we had and LIFE, although a PIA at times has been mellower. We'd need a whole nother income to afford a car.
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Old 11-22-12, 11:09 AM
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I wonder how it works out for people who keep their cars for 10 or more years (like I typically do)?
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Old 11-22-12, 11:33 AM
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How one spends the money they earn can seem strange to anyone that spends what they have differently. Car owners can buy with cash, they can buy used and the cost is less than Edmunds suggests. The same statements of eye opener happens when talking about renting verses owning a home in the Vegas area. with the low property values in Vegas right now it only takes 1.7 years to break even when buying a home and making the homes an asset rather than a pure cost as renting is. https://www.lvrj.com/business/buying-...164858036.html
Yet, and I undestand the logic, many car free seem to value their freedom to move quickly enough that they would ather drop 700-1500 a month in someone elses pocket for 20 years, $180,000.00 to $360,000.00 that is not equity except for the landlord. In my case the equity in one home after 30 years paid off all of my bills, paid off my second home so I have no rent, no payments, I do not use credit cards. I have no car payments, bought a new travel trailer for cash and retired two years early.

It is a matter of living within your means. If you are getting paid enough to afford a car and still put money in the bank that is what our system is all about. I also realize not everyone went to college or had a job that paid enough to buy a car and a house. That being said I believe the bigger problem is people try to live on credit as if they did have a high paying job and the bills will never come due. How many times have we listened to people say they can only afford a wally world bike at $100.00. Why not spend that $100.00 on a used bike or better yet save up for a few months and get a good bike? Because peope want what they want and they want it now, sorta like a Willy Wonka quote.

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Old 11-22-12, 12:01 PM
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I tend to live modestly and so when I bought my car, I paid cash. I could have gotten the financing to afford something newer and better, but I chose something that would be practical for my needs. (And yes, in my case, a car is an unfortunate need.) Because I don't have monthly vehicle payments, I am able to take that money and put it into savings. This means I now have a cushion in case of an emergency. Although I need the car for some trips, I don't drive much, so my biggest annual cost is the insurance. However, I also realize my car-light lifestyle will not work for everyone and it might not meet my needs in the future, depending on how life turns out. It has taken me a number of years to find the best way to make this lifestyle work for me now.
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Old 11-22-12, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chewybrian View Post
What's an average rent for a modest apartment, say 750?
Over here, if you're lucky you might find a tiny studio for 750
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Old 11-22-12, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
How one spends the money they earn can seem strange to anyone that spends what they have differently. Car owners can buy with cash, they can buy used and the cost is less than Edmunds suggests. The same statements of eye opener happens when talking about renting verses owning a home in the Vegas area. with the low property values in Vegas right now it only takes 1.7 years to break even when buying a home and making the homes an asset rather than a pure cost as renting is. https://www.lvrj.com/business/buying-...164858036.html
Yet, and I undestand the logic, many car free seem to value their freedom to move quickly enough that they would ather drop 700-1500 a month in someone elses pocket for 20 years, $180,000.00 to $360,000.00 that is not equity except for the landlord. In my case the equity in one home after 30 years paid off all of my bills, paid off my second home so I have no rent, no payments, I do not use credit cards. I have no car payments, bought a new travel trailer for cash and retired two years early.
Wow, that's a crazy short break-even time. Here in Calgary it's more like 10 years for a downtown condo. Though, I'm now "renting" from my boyfriend, and we basically worked it out so that my rent is equal to his mortgage interest, so now his payments are effectively going towards capital. If I were still living alone though, I would definitely continue to rent. Who knows where my life will be in 10 years?

Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
It is a matter of living within your means. If you are getting paid enough to afford a car and still put money in the bank that is what our system is all about. I also realize not everyone went to college or had a job that paid enough to buy a car and a house. That being said I believe the bigger problem is people try to live on credit as if they did have a high paying job and the bills will never come due. How many times have we listened to people say they can only afford a wally world bike at $100.00. Why not spend that $100.00 on a used bike or better yet save up for a few months and get a good bike? Because peope want what they want and they want it now, sorta like a Willy Wonka quote.
I'm in a comfortable situation where owning and maintaining a vehicle is well within my means, but it's just too much hassle. I just sold my car (after 2 years of ownership), and it worked out to around $250 a month, including 3 insurance claims ($220 without). I simply didn't use the car enough to bother with the stress of having it parked out on the street waiting to get hit, or to fight for parking spots when I did actually use it.

Now I've got that extra $250 accumulating in my bank account... I'm thinking I'll let it build up for a few months, subtract whatever my transportation expenses are (car2go trips, bike maintenance, etc), and then buy something fun... like a folding bike
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Old 11-22-12, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
I believe the bigger problem is people try to live on credit as if they did have a high paying job and the bills will never come due. How many times have we listened to people say they can only afford a wally world bike at $100.00. Why not spend that $100.00 on a used bike or better yet save up for a few months and get a good bike? Because peope want what they want and they want it now, sorta like a Willy Wonka quote.
I used to see young couples trying to achieve the lifestyle their parents had acquired after 25 or 30 years. These people would drive newer vehicles and would own the latest and nicest items in their homes. It took a lot of effort to make the payments on such a lifestyle. If anything changed and one of them could not work, whether temporarily or permanently, the lifestyle would instantly become unaffordable.
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Old 11-22-12, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Newspaperguy View Post
I tend to live modestly and so when I bought my car, I paid cash. I could have gotten the financing to afford something newer and better, but I chose something that would be practical for my needs. (And yes, in my case, a car is an unfortunate need.) Because I don't have monthly vehicle payments, I am able to take that money and put it into savings. This means I now have a cushion in case of an emergency. Although I need the car for some trips, I don't drive much, so my biggest annual cost is the insurance. However, I also realize my car-light lifestyle will not work for everyone and it might not meet my needs in the future, depending on how life turns out. It has taken me a number of years to find the best way to make this lifestyle work for me now.
Not financing is the key, I am resisting, but I may end up car light one day.
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Old 11-22-12, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Newspaperguy View Post
I used to see young couples trying to achieve the lifestyle their parents had acquired after 25 or 30 years. These people would drive newer vehicles and would own the latest and nicest items in their homes. It took a lot of effort to make the payments on such a lifestyle. If anything changed and one of them could not work, whether temporarily or permanently, the lifestyle would instantly become unaffordable.
Yes, people tried to get what their parents had in the first few years. But the point I was making is people are willing to spend their money on what they find important even if others disagree.
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Old 11-23-12, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
I wonder how it works out for people who keep their cars for 10 or more years (like I typically do)?
I have never quite figured that one out either. I paid cash for my last truck, currently it "costs" me ~$1200 a year to have it sit here, even if I never drive it. I can sell it for about 60% of what I paid for it 6 years ago due to the low mileage on it. Operation costs are a high on that truck, it is a diesel and gets about 15 mpg on a good day. I am sure there are some fancy formulas that will allow you to figure out the depreciation vs the loss of interest if you had invested the money.

I also love to hear people that think housing is a great investment... in many cases it is not. Depending on the local market you may be better off renting, as well as depending on your circumstances. I have a friend that bought a house a few years back and is now upside down on his mortgage to the tune of over $100k due to the collapse of the market. He can make the payments, but he is paying a lot of money for something that isn't worth what he paid for it 6 years ago. My current house is worth less than I paid for it 12 years ago, but I paid cash so my loss is all on paper at the moment.

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Old 11-23-12, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
I also love to hear people that think housing is a great investment... in many cases it is not. Depending on the local market you may be better off renting, as well as depending on your circumstances. I have a friend that bought a house a few years back and is now upside down on his mortgage to the tune of over $100k due to the collapse of the market. He can make the payments, but he is paying a lot of money for something that isn't worth what he paid for it 6 years ago. My current house is worth less than I paid for it 12 years ago, but I paid cash so my loss is all on paper at the moment.
Where I live, buying a house makes a lot of sense. There are not many rental units available and when something is open, the rent rate is higher than the mortgage and related payments on a place of the same size. Add to that the fact that I was planning on staying here for a while and buying was not a difficult decision.

If I had been in a place with lower rent rates or if I had planned on moving out in the foreseeable future, my decision may have been quite different.

Also, I bought in the late 1990s, before the prices began their escalation. By 2005, prices had escalated to the point where many of us knew they could not stay at this level.
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Old 11-23-12, 12:07 PM
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Man you all must have CHEAP House's in your area, We rent a 1 bedroom apt. for $450.00, (utilities included) a month, and that's CHEAP for an apartment in Colorado Springs, CO. There's not a single HOUSE anywhere that you can BUY for that kind of money, heck most of the Rental Houses are DOUBLE what we pay for rent!!!! Yes, it's a bit getto looking but it's not bad inside, the median house here is $250,000 or so, which would make our "house payment", $1,000 + a month, and that DOES NOT include, utilities, trash, etc., there's NO WAY we will ever be able to afford to BUY a home!! So the advise to BUY instead of RENT doesn't work for a lot of us!!!!!
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Old 11-23-12, 12:25 PM
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It's not that we have cheap houses here; we just have high rent rates.
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Old 11-23-12, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
I have never quite figured that one out either. I paid cash for my last truck, currently it "costs" me ~$1200 a year to have it sit here, even if I never drive it. I can sell it for about 60% of what I paid for it 6 years ago due to the low mileage on it.
What costs so much, insurance?

I must be lucky. I bought a 2000 Honda Civic, with 144,000 miles 3 years ago for $3K to make a 160 mile R/T commute once a week. Put 14,000 miles on it in three years. I'm retired now but it only costs $35/year for registration and $280 year for insurance to sit in my driveway. Haven't even done an oil change for the last 2 years. Don't need the money and keep it as backup in case my wife's 10 year old car quits. I use it mostly to get a pizza every now and then and drop larger items off at the Goodwill store. Still running on the tank of gas I put in when I filled it up on 31 Aug. Runs like a top. Good running automotive transportation does not have to cost an arm and leg.
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Old 11-23-12, 01:19 PM
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So,it cost $250 a week to own a car.....LOL! .....somehow that doesn't seem right.

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Old 11-23-12, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
So,it cost $250 a week to own a car.....LOL! .....somehow that doesn't seem right.
It doesn't. If you are responding to my post read it again.
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