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Car free, transit friendly King St in Toronto?

Old 06-27-13, 07:31 AM
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Car free, transit friendly King St in Toronto?

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal..._citizens.html

This is starting to come up for debate, should be interesting.

I would love o see this implemented as I am about two blocks away from King, and utilize it everyday when walking to work, and use the streetcar occasionally when going out. It would drastically improve one of, if not the busiest, streetcar lines in the city.
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Old 06-27-13, 07:45 AM
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Looks like this is being fought out along an urban-suburban divide.
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Old 06-27-13, 10:33 AM
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Toronto was one of the first cities to attempt regional government, and this whole issue highlights the weaknesses and the strengths of regionalism. I hope they will battle it out and come out with a compromise plan that has benefits for both the inner city and the suburbs. Given the contemporary habit of blocking all government progress in the name of ideology, they might just implement nothing at all.
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Old 06-27-13, 10:49 AM
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The head of the Toronto Transit Commission is my city councillor, Karen Stintz, the only "right-wing" politician I might actually vote for. She was appointed TTC Chair by the mayor, the rightwing buffoon Rob ("the war on the car is over!") Ford, but soon fell out with him when it turned out she actually wants to run a good transit system, not just keep it out of the way of cars. She's an urban conservative, so she crosses the grain of the urban/suburban political gradient, like a knot in an otherwise smooth pine plank.
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Old 06-27-13, 11:03 AM
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This is a great idea, but as stated above, it really draws the sub/urban line. Something tells me there will be a few too many sticks in the mud for anything this drastic to happen. We can't even get a reasonable bike infrastructure, nevermind closing streets to cars.

Toronto feels very 'stuck' to me recently. Fighting and lack of a cohesive vision are threatening to ruin a great city.
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Old 06-27-13, 08:56 PM
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Good article.

The article stated they are actually buying new and larger street cars! While I like streetcars, they really need their own right of way or it's slower than a bus. At the turn of the last century, the street car ran down the middle of the road! While they were slow, no traffic made them as fast as a bus. Once the car took over the city, the street car was doomed because it took too much road and cars were lined up a block down since none could pass if the street was narrow.

Regardless, they have to get rid of Ford if they ever want to develope a carfree center.
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Old 06-28-13, 08:03 AM
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https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Proj...cars/index.jsp
There is a link with a picture. New streetcar looks awesome, and as of right now, due to their size, you will be able to transport your bike on one (off peak hours I would assume, similar to the subway).

I do agree that the streetcar is slow due to traffic. It is a shame really because so much of the downtown core is serviced by them. Plus it looks ridiculous when there are 5 or 6 of them lined up due to a traffic accident.
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Old 06-28-13, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tober1 View Post
This is a great idea, but as stated above, it really draws the sub/urban line. Something tells me there will be a few too many sticks in the mud for anything this drastic to happen. We can't even get a reasonable bike infrastructure, nevermind closing streets to cars.

Toronto feels very 'stuck' to me recently. Fighting and lack of a cohesive vision are threatening to ruin a great city.
I'm anxious to see what happens in next year's election. I'm new to the city, but electing Ford for mayor was a very bad move on the part of the citizens of the GTA (not Torontonians, since they didn't vote for him). For me personally, it is not because he is conservative, but rather because he is not intellectual at all, and has no vision for the city as you stated. He is not a consensus builder and seemingly does not compromise or work with anyone well enough to be effective.

What fiscally conservative mayor would rally against a LRT expansion in lieu of MORE subway lines? It is that disconnect that irks me.
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Old 06-28-13, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
electing Ford for mayor was a very bad move on the part of the citizens of the GTA (not Torontonians, since they didn't vote for him.)
A note on terminology: The "old" city of Toronto didn't include the boroughs of North York, East York, York, Etobicoke and Scarborough, but the expanded city of Toronto does, so Ford (who lives in Etobicoke) was elected by Torontonians. The term "GTA" (Greater Toronto Area) is a broader, unofficial term that includes surrounding, independent, but contiguous cities like Vaughan, Markham, Mississauga, Pickering etc. (who have their own mayors). "GTA" is a term popularized to a large degree by the Toronto Star newspaper, presumably because they thought if all those people surrounding Toronto think of themselves as part of "Greater Toronto", they will buy the Toronto Star.
Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
What fiscally conservative mayor would rally against a LRT expansion in lieu of MORE subway lines? It is that disconnect that irks me.
He knows that his electoral base is suburbanites who travel downtown. They want subways because they are faster (over long distances) or because they don't slow surface car traffic, and thus offer the promise of a smooth commute in from the burbs. So he is catering to that demographic.

However they haven't thought it through. You can build many more miles of track, and get many more people downtown, by LRT than you can by subway for the same price. Stintz understands that. Plus her constituents (ie. me) already live close to downtown and use streetcars a lot.

Last edited by cooker; 06-28-13 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 06-28-13, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
A note on terminology: The "old" city of Toronto didn't include the boroughs of North York, East York, York, Etobicoke and Scarborough, but the expanded city of Toronto does, so Ford (who lives in Etobicoke) was elected by Torontonians. The term "GTA" (Greater Toronto Area) is a broader, unofficial term that includes surrounding, independent, but contiguous cities like Vaughan, Markham, Mississauga, Pickering etc. (who have their own mayors). "GTA" is a term popularized to a large degree by the Toronto Star newspaper, presumably because they thought if all those people surrounding Toronto think of themselves as part of "Greater Toronto", they will buy the Toronto Star.
Plus in my experience up here in the Nation's capital, any self respecting person from the "GTA" that I meet will say they are either from "Toronto" or "GTA".
Possibly also because most people outside of the area don't know where Markham, Vaughan, etc. is.
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Old 06-28-13, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
I'm anxious to see what happens in next year's election. I'm new to the city, but electing Ford for mayor was a very bad move on the part of the citizens of the GTA (not Torontonians, since they didn't vote for him). For me personally, it is not because he is conservative, but rather because he is not intellectual at all, and has no vision for the city as you stated. He is not a consensus builder and seemingly does not compromise or work with anyone well enough to be effective.

What fiscally conservative mayor would rally against a LRT expansion in lieu of MORE subway lines? It is that disconnect that irks me.
Exactement. And the only "right wingers" we see are not actually that, but rather just uninformed loudmouths and rabble rousers like Rob Ford. The Ontario PC's in the 60s and 70s were fiscally conservative, good example is the cancellation of the Spadina Expressway by Bill Davis.

“If we are building a transportation system to serve the automobile, the Spadina Expressway would be a good place to start. But if we are building a transportation system to serve people, the Spadina Expressway is a good place to stop”
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Old 06-28-13, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
A note on terminology:
I realized after I posted that I used the term incorrectly. Thank you for clarifying.
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Old 06-28-13, 08:05 PM
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https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal...n_on_bike.html
Gotta love Stintz... ticketed while cycling to work.
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Old 06-28-13, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal...n_on_bike.html
Gotta love Stintz... ticketed while cycling to work.
Wow.. you guys have some interesting city politics. I imagine your yearning to live in a more politically serene climate... like Montreal
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Old 06-28-13, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Proj...cars/index.jsp
There is a link with a picture. New streetcar looks awesome, and as of right now, due to their size, you will be able to transport your bike on one (off peak hours I would assume, similar to the subway).

I do agree that the streetcar is slow due to traffic. It is a shame really because so much of the downtown core is serviced by them. Plus it looks ridiculous when there are 5 or 6 of them lined up due to a traffic accident.
Those are BEAUTIFUL street cars!

They actually save the city money because you don't have to have as many bus lines operating at one time. I use the Lightrail (Hudson Bergen Ligthrail) every day and I'm upset because after rush hour, they don't attach the articulated trains together and they get packed!! I'm jealous of Toronto.

I'm sending an angry letter to NJ Transit right now!
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Old 06-28-13, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
What fiscally conservative mayor would rally against a LRT expansion in lieu of MORE subway lines? It is that disconnect that irks me.
Ford wanted to rid the trolleys altogether! As for the subways, there is no plan on the table and never will be. A subway line is five to ten times more costly to build than a traction system and there's no money anyway.
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Old 07-02-13, 07:04 AM
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I like the randomly placed Doug Ford bashing at the end haha.

He was "late" (absent) for a 10AM meeting, yet somehow manages to work 18 hours a day. I guess he works the night shift or something.
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Old 07-02-13, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
I like the randomly placed Doug Ford bashing at the end haha.

He was "late" (absent) for a 10AM meeting, yet somehow manages to work 18 hours a day. I guess he works the night shift or something.
The night shift in Crack Alley?
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Old 07-03-13, 07:05 AM
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Sort of unrelated to the my original link, but I'm not cluttering up the forum with a bunch of TTC posts...
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal...rs_fuming.html
The cost of converting to a subway as opposed to light rail is an extra billion dollars.
I told my wife whose response was "Where else in the world do suburbs have subways?"
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Old 07-03-13, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
I like the randomly placed Doug Ford bashing at the end haha.

He was "late" (absent) for a 10AM meeting, yet somehow manages to work 18 hours a day. I guess he works the night shift or something.
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
The night shift in Crack Alley?

IIRC he has been seen reading and driving on more than one occasion so I guess he counts his time behind the wheel as work time?

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Old 07-03-13, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
Sort of unrelated to the my original link, but I'm not cluttering up the forum with a bunch of TTC posts...
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal...rs_fuming.html
The cost of converting to a subway as opposed to light rail is an extra billion dollars.
I told my wife whose response was "Where else in the world do suburbs have subways?"
Good post.

The cost of the subway is 2 billion dollars and will not go to the suburbs. I suspect this amount is just a start for what would eventually become a very expensive project. The Second Avenue subway in New York City is expected to cost 17 billion USD and only covers 8.5 miles.

I can't believe they want to remove the elevated tracks and construct lightrail. They are safer than a surface lightrail and the stations can pull more cars carrying more passengers. All they should be thinking is buying new cars and fixing the stations or constuct a new one. Incredible.
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Old 07-03-13, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
Good post.

I can't believe they want to remove the elevated tracks and construct lightrail. They are safer than a surface lightrail and the stations can pull more cars carrying more passengers. All they should be thinking is buying new cars and fixing the stations or constuct a new one. Incredible.
I couldn't agree with you more. Manchester, England has a "tram" line that utilizes elevated tracks in certain areas of the city, and then is on street level at stops/in the center of the city.

Actually they reused existing rail lines in some areas. Toronto should take note, maybe give them a call...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ster_Metrolink

Last edited by Jared.; 07-03-13 at 10:31 PM.
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