Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

One Less Car?

Old 11-05-13, 05:19 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
A new rail system proposed as an option/effective for a small group of people is by definition not viable.
That's true on the face of it. But there are many cases where a train or trolley "to nowhere" resulted in new development along the tracks. A lot of the early streetcar lines were extended into farmland areas. In a fairly short time, there was urban development along the tracks. These are called streetcar suburbs, and many are still very desirable places for carfree living. Royal Oak, MI is one that comes to mind.

There are even examples of this in modern times. I've seen aerial photos of northern Virginia (Arlington?) that clearly show dense new development clustered near metro subway stops, like skyscraper islands in the sea of suburban sprawl.
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Old 11-05-13, 06:40 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
That's true on the face of it. But there are many cases where a train or trolley "to nowhere" resulted in new development along the tracks. A lot of the early streetcar lines were extended into farmland areas. In a fairly short time, there was urban development along the tracks. These are called streetcar suburbs, and many are still very desirable places for carfree living. Royal Oak, MI is one that comes to mind.

There are even examples of this in modern times. I've seen aerial photos of northern Virginia (Arlington?) that clearly show dense new development clustered near metro subway stops, like skyscraper islands in the sea of suburban sprawl.
True as far as it applies to light rail/commuting projects within a metropolitan area. Less so, if at all, when applied to rail between distant cities which describes San Antonio to Austin.
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Old 11-06-13, 03:56 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
True as far as it applies to light rail/commuting projects within a metropolitan area. Less so, if at all, when applied to rail between distant cities which describes San Antonio to Austin.
Yeah, except almost every city west of the Alleghenies was founded near a railroad. I don't know if a new city would develop on a new train track between San Antonio and Austin. Probably not. But since they're only 80 miles apart, the trains might be used for commuting to both cities from the midpoint stations. That would encourage development near the stations.
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Old 11-06-13, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Yeah, except almost every city west of the Alleghenies was founded near a railroad. I don't know if a new city would develop on a new train track between San Antonio and Austin. Probably not. But since they're only 80 miles apart, the trains might be used for commuting to both cities from the midpoint stations. That would encourage development near the stations.
Not something that isn't directly related but can be taken into consideration is how people feel about living close to an active rail line. My wife and I were looking at a new model home on the outskirts of a Bedroom community for LA. As we walked through the home the first time we were impressed with the style and even the cost seemed within reason. The second time we went by we just happened to be there as a train went by. As we waited for it to pass the real-estate agent looked slightly anxious and said not to worry that only happens once or twice a day. We left and two days later the agent called and lowered the price by 9K if we were still interested, we were not. It is a bit like living close to the airport, nice when you need it but a pain when the planes land.

But you have a point in that many of the cities between LA and San Bernardino/Riverside grew because they were serviced by light rail starting with the red car and moving onto things like Metro Link. That being said, the move to HOV lanes has effected passenger usage on Metro Link. Many people bought Hybrids just to get the sticker letting them in the HOV lane without a second person in the car. It got so bad I believe they were supposed to let the rule letting a hybrid in the HOV lane with only one person expire.
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Old 11-07-13, 04:07 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Not something that isn't directly related but can be taken into consideration is how people feel about living close to an active rail line. My wife and I were looking at a new model home on the outskirts of a Bedroom community for LA. As we walked through the home the first time we were impressed with the style and even the cost seemed within reason. The second time we went by we just happened to be there as a train went by. As we waited for it to pass the real-estate agent looked slightly anxious and said not to worry that only happens once or twice a day. We left and two days later the agent called and lowered the price by 9K if we were still interested, we were not. It is a bit like living close to the airport, nice when you need it but a pain when the planes land.

But you have a point in that many of the cities between LA and San Bernardino/Riverside grew because they were serviced by light rail starting with the red car and moving onto things like Metro Link. That being said, the move to HOV lanes has effected passenger usage on Metro Link. Many people bought Hybrids just to get the sticker letting them in the HOV lane without a second person in the car. It got so bad I believe they were supposed to let the rule letting a hybrid in the HOV lane with only one person expire.
I would much rather have a house near a light rail line than a major highway...

Where I live right now used to be rural, we seldom would hear vehicles going by after 6pm, now we can hear traffic from 5am-11pm every day. It is unusual NOT to hear traffic.

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Old 11-07-13, 06:51 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Yeah, except almost every city west of the Alleghenies was founded near a railroad.
Got a source for that?

While yes, Little Rock is on a rail line, It's well known that Little Rock was founded as a port city.

Many other cities Sioux Falls, SD, Spokane, WA, Houston, TX, Las Vegas, NV, Phoenix, AZ, just to mention a few were founded on their proximity to water, even Lansing, MI. The rail lines came to them.

Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I don't know if a new city would develop on a new train track between San Antonio and Austin. Probably not. But since they're only 80 miles apart, the trains might be used for commuting to both cities from the midpoint stations. That would encourage development near the stations.
I doubt if a new city would develop between San Antonio and Austin. There are already cities there. San Marcos is just about half-way. My family has lived in the area since the 1830's, so it's not exactly bare ground awaiting development. There is already I-35 serving that corridor, but a new rail system would improve transportation in that area.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
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Old 11-07-13, 11:19 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Not something that isn't directly related but can be taken into consideration is how people feel about living close to an active rail line. My wife and I were looking at a new model home on the outskirts of a Bedroom community for LA. As we walked through the home the first time we were impressed with the style and even the cost seemed within reason. The second time we went by we just happened to be there as a train went by. As we waited for it to pass the real-estate agent looked slightly anxious and said not to worry that only happens once or twice a day. We left and two days later the agent called and lowered the price by 9K if we were still interested, we were not. It is a bit like living close to the airport, nice when you need it but a pain when the planes land.
Meh. Whatever. I live near an interstate, a rail line (freight), and in the flight path of the incoming UPS planes around midnight. It's annoying at first, but you don't even notice it after a while.

The only noise I consistently hear is the neighbor's dogs barking.
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Old 11-07-13, 12:04 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by dcrowell View Post
The only noise I consistently hear is the neighbor's dogs barking.
Without a doubt the most annoying noise of all! Even worse when it is neighbors' dogs.
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Old 11-07-13, 12:50 PM
  #34  
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I should mind my own business, BUT
Be careful if you are really fond of your GF
Some battles-best not fought.Living care free for her -up to her and twisting her arm will annoy her.
Car is a very useful tool-and she obviously isn't going to dump much $$ in it,so...
You should do what I should have done.
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Old 11-07-13, 02:01 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Car is a very useful tool...
Most useful for trashing the environment and promoting obesity and asthma!
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Old 11-07-13, 02:47 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Most useful for trashing the environment and promoting obesity and asthma!
An automobile has nothing to do with obesity. It's the choices that drivers choose to make that does. These type of drivers are the same ones who think it's "cool" to rev their engines or honk as they pass a cyclist.

As for "trashing the environment", I have a low tolerance for cars just as much as the next person but a properly maintained car can last years without releasing too many toxins into the air.
I wonder what your thoughts are on factories? Ever ride past one and inhale the pollutants they release into the air? Far more than any car I've ever driven for sure.
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Old 11-07-13, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeRides View Post
As for "trashing the environment", I have a low tolerance for cars just as much as the next person but a properly maintained car can last years without releasing too many toxins into the air.

I wonder what your thoughts are on factories? Ever ride past one and inhale the pollutants they release into the air? Far more than any car I've ever driven for sure.
According to NASA, automobiles are the largest net climate change culprit.
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Old 11-07-13, 03:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by MikeRides View Post
An automobile has nothing to do with obesity.
Where do you get your information?

Study: Surge in Obesity Correlates with Increased Automobile Usage

Car Use Drives Up Weight, Study Finds
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Old 11-07-13, 03:39 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
According to NASA, automobiles are the largest net climate change culprit.
Read what you linked-it says that industrial use of coal(dirty plants in china india etc) puts out such large quantities of sulfates(cooling) that it negated the heating effect of their HUGE CO2 production.
Coal use it much dirtier than gasoline fueled cars-you are focusing on just one aspect of "clean environment" to condemn cars.
Look how fast the chinese are dumping bikes-and choosing cars.Scold the chinese-they produce more CO2 than we do-
their per capita production looks better only because of their HUGE population. Scold them!
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Old 11-07-13, 04:16 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Read what you linked-it says that industrial use of coal(dirty plants in china india etc) puts out such large quantities of sulfates(cooling) that it negated the heating effect of their HUGE CO2 production.
Coal use it much dirtier than gasoline fueled cars-you are focusing on just one aspect of "clean environment" to condemn cars.
Look how fast the chinese are dumping bikes-and choosing cars.Scold the chinese-they produce more CO2 than we do-
their per capita production looks better only because of their HUGE population. Scold them!
Are you aware that American corporations have their goods manufactured in China because of lax labor and environmental laws? Did you know that the United States has stepped up coal exports, including Appalachian coal extracted using mountaintop removal techniques?

Your comments about CO2 production make no sense at all. The U.S. pollutes much more per person than the Chinese do, so it's the Chinese who need scolding?
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Old 11-07-13, 04:36 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Are you aware that American corporations have their goods manufactured in China because of lax labor and environmental laws? Did you know that the United States has stepped up coal exports, including Appalachian coal extracted using mountaintop removal techniques?

Your comments about CO2 production make no sense at all. The U.S. pollutes much more per person than the Chinese do, so it's the Chinese who need scolding?
In contrast, the industrial and power sectors release many of the same gases—with a larger contribution to radiative forcing—but they also emit sulfates and other aerosols that cause cooling by reflecting light and altering clouds…

1)Larger contribution to radiative forcing MEANS POWER PLANTS AND INDUSTRY PRODUCE MORE CO2
2)Sulfates and other aerosols ...cooling MEANS THEY ALSO PRODUCE LOTS OF CRAP THAT REFLECTS SUNLIGHT OUT INTO SPACE-

China pollutes much more than the USA- because they HAVE TO -their population is SOOOO LARGE they are robbing peter to pay paul- cheap and dirty production of everything-goods and foodstuffs(aquaculture and everything else- is filthy in every possible way-imagine how casual they are with pesticides herbicides anti mold agents).They recently poisoned 300,000 chinese babies-adulterated baby "milk/formula)-
Their population is their time bomb-they have to cut corners to keep up production
and quite a few seem to be more amoral than average-300,000 babies?? Yikes!
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Old 11-07-13, 04:53 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Read what you linked-it says that industrial use of coal(dirty plants in china india etc) puts out such large quantities of sulfates(cooling) that it negated the heating effect of their HUGE CO2 production.
Coal use it much dirtier than gasoline fueled cars-you are focusing on just one aspect of "clean environment" to condemn cars.
Look how fast the chinese are dumping bikes-and choosing cars.Scold the chinese-they produce more CO2 than we do-
their per capita production looks better only because of their HUGE population. Scold them!
How can I scold a Chinese person when I personally emit much more CO2 than each of them does? Even as a carfree person, I pollute more than the average Chinese person. It would be audaciously hypocritical for me (or any American) to scold the Chinese.

Global warming is, ahem, a global problem. It will require global cooperation to solve it in time to save our climate. Name calling and blame gaming are not productive approaches.
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Old 11-07-13, 04:56 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
In contrast, the industrial and power sectors release many of the same gases—with a larger contribution to radiative forcing—but they also emit sulfates and other aerosols that cause cooling by reflecting light and altering clouds…

1)Larger contribution to radiative forcing MEANS POWER PLANTS AND INDUSTRY PRODUCE MORE CO2
2)Sulfates and other aerosols ...cooling MEANS THEY ALSO PRODUCE LOTS OF CRAP THAT REFLECTS SUNLIGHT OUT INTO SPACE-

China pollutes much more than the USA- because they HAVE TO -their population is SOOOO LARGE they are robbing peter to pay paul- cheap and dirty production of everything-goods and foodstuffs(aquaculture and everything else- is filthy in every possible way-imagine how casual they are with pesticides herbicides anti mold agents).They recently poisoned 300,000 chinese babies-adulterated baby "milk/formula)-
Their population is their time bomb-they have to cut corners to keep up production
and quite a few seem to be more amoral than average-300,000 babies?? Yikes!
In addition, AFAIK, China is the only country in the world that has actually done something constructive to reduce its population, starting two generations ago with their one child policies.
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Old 11-07-13, 05:32 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by roody View Post
in addition, afaik, china is the only country in the world that has actually done something constructive to reduce its population, starting two generations ago with their one child policies.
barn door

Their population has CONTINUED to increase-1.3 Billion
Really no solution to 1,300,000,000 in a country the same size as the USA-with a long standing deforestation-desertification - longstanding water pollution-over fishing-heavy coal use with large coal reserves so that won't change- dams that will eventually silt in-
yeah china has HUGE problems and the have a population that is demanding a much higher standard of living.

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Old 11-07-13, 08:39 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
How can I scold a Chinese person when I personally emit much more CO2 than each of them does? Even as a carfree person, I pollute more than the average Chinese person. It would be audaciously hypocritical for me (or any American) to scold the Chinese.
That's pretty amazing. What's more worrisome is that I can't find much of a movement towards reducing those levels.

You'd think for all the green ideology we hear about, someone would put together a simple plan of attack... you know... something like a personal guide to reducing CO2.
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Old 11-08-13, 01:41 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
In addition, AFAIK, China is the only country in the world that has actually done something constructive to reduce its population, starting two generations ago with their one child policies.
Apparently they feel they've done enough in that regard. http://www.cnbc.com/id/100938297 They need more drivers for all the cars they are making now.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 11-08-13, 01:44 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by gerv View Post
That's pretty amazing. What's more worrisome is that I can't find much of a movement towards reducing those levels.

You'd think for all the green ideology we hear about, someone would put together a simple plan of attack... you know... something like a personal guide to reducing CO2.
Here you go.

How to reduce your carbon footprint.

The only problem is that I think that most people are fine with reducing carbon as long as they don't have to put any effort into it or suffer any inconvenience.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 11-08-13, 02:52 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
I think that most people are fine with reducing carbon as long as they don't have to put any effort into it or suffer any inconvenience.
Easier to blame The Yellow Horde.
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Old 11-08-13, 05:15 AM
  #49  
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I've got to chuckle about the timing of this, but this was posted today on the myths about the world and its population:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sc...-1226755860735

Undoubtedly, there will be argument here about the veracity of the assertions. But the Swedes do tend to be aloof and more independent in their research.
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Old 11-08-13, 05:17 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by gerv View Post
That's pretty amazing. What's more worrisome is that I can't find much of a movement towards reducing those levels.

You'd think for all the green ideology we hear about, someone would put together a simple plan of attack... you know... something like a personal guide to reducing CO2.
Saw a book in the front window of a bookshop today dealing with this specific subject. Next to it were two books on cycling. I'm thinking of buying all three, depending on the price (which I didn't have access to before an early-morning meeting).

The guides are out there. But most people can't be bothered looking And I repeat: NIMBY
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