Zedoo

These States Will Revoke Your Driver?s License If You Can?t Pay Back Student Loans

CliffordK

Wow...
And many of the loans are Federal while the drivers licenses are state managed.

I have a problem that I paid 100% of my student loan back.
Then the government decided to add an extra $10,000 to the loan amount a month after I paid the loan off.

I just refuse to pay the extra that was added after the loan was paid off.

FBinNY 

This is a good example of the dangers of calling driving a privilege instead of a right.

I have always said that we should never allow ourselves to accept that our rights are only privileges granted by government. That said, I don't consider driving rights irrevocable. Like all rights they are subject to some degree of regulation. In the case of driving, loss or restriction of the right should only be for reasons of danger or conflict with the rights of other road users, ie. dangerous driving, or a pattern of disregard for the rules of the road.

I don't have student loans (never had) and as a taxpayer, want every effort made to collect them so the rest of the public doesn't pick up the tab, but if we let our rights get nibbled away at the edges we'll soon find that we don't have any.

B. Carfree

Driving as a right? Since when? Even Scalia won't be able to shoe-horn that one into his "original intent" doctrine.

Driving is a state granted and state regulated activity. Privilege is the proper word for such a thing and it can be revoked for many reasons, including nonpayment of fees owed to the government or insurance companies. Now, travelling along the public right-of-way, that's a right (and doesn't require a license or a car).

FBinNY 

For the record, driving was unregulated until about 1910, with various states going to licensing later than that. So, by your logic driving was a right, until the state decided to regulate it and require licenses. However you claim that traveling on a public road is a right (and I agree). So, if the state in three years decides to require a license of riding a bicycle, does our right suddenly disappear and become a privilege?.

This is a fine line, and I don't have an issue with regulating driving. My issue is treating it as some great favor that a state may grant or revoke at will (other as needed for regulatory purposes).

Rights don't last if we simply let ourselves be convinced that we never had them in the first place.

Since we've decided that the state can be a collection agent for student loans, why don't let them be collection agents for any and all other debts? You may disagree with where I draw the line, but you should consider where you'd draw the line while you still have the option.

Dahon.Steve

Good post.

I was thinking how public transportation is quite poor in Montana forcing you to drive a car. However, if you can't find a job, you may very well have to move hundreds of miles to another state before you lose the privilege! The whole notion that the fear of losing your license will force you to find employment is folly. It's only going to create more unlicensed drivers on the road.

I suspect the banking industry in Montana twisted the government's hand and came up with this law. It's sad in a way with student loan defaults at an all time high, state governments have to use desperate measures to get young adults to pay their loans.

I happen to believe the main reason students can't pay their loans is that good paying jobs have left states like Montana while low paying minimum wage positions abound. This whole student loan bubble that's really a nation wide problem is going to burst one day. It's not if but when.

All students with more the 25K in loans should be given a copy of Chris Balish's book, "How to Live Well Without Car" before leaving school. The first thing many college students purchase after graduation is a brand new car. The same vehicle is going to put them into default once that high paying job of their dream never materializes.

rumrunn6

but it doesn't affect their ability to buy firearms. by all means take away their ability to commute to work but let them buy firearms. yeah that makes sense

Ekdog

What's next in those backwater states, debtors' prisons? Or perhaps they'll follow the lead of Vladimir Putin:

Russian Government Bans Transgender People From Obtaining Driver's Licenses| Gay News | Towleroad

CliffordK

One of the problems with an unsecured loan is that it has very few teeth.

In my case, I paid off my student loan, then the government added an obscene amount to the loan after it was paid off, and claims that it will never go away. And I don't have a diploma for my years studying so the money spent on the "education" based on unfulfilled promises and expectations is wasted. Nonetheless, I paid off the loan, but refuse to pay off the charges added after it was paid off.

There are some fields that are licensed based on education. So, for example, doctors, lawyers, and perhaps engineers could potentially have their licenses to practice put in jeopardy. In most other fields, the education counts for less than the work experience. A school might be able to refuse to give out a transcript, but many people could go through life without ever needing to see it again.

Wanderer

How can the guvmnt add 10 grand to loans that are already paid off???? Are we possibly talking about accrued interest which was never paid?

CliffordK

Nope.
Due to various circumstances, I was late on some of my payments.
I got a bill demanding payment in full, which I was able to pay off due to a change in circumstances.
So, I paid the bill off in full which included the principle plus interest to date.
Check was made out to the Department of Education.
And to my knowledge, up until that time, all correspondence was made with the Department of Education.

A few months later, I started getting contacted by bill collectors demanding additional money. If there was any missed interest, it would have been in the hundreds, not thousands of dollars.

Periodically a new bill collector shows up demanding money that I don't owe, then eventually disappear when they discover the amount is disputed.

Wanderer

Sounds like lawyer time.........

bragi

Revoking a person's drivers license for not paying off a debt cannot possibly be legal. Has anyone challenged this in court? What's next, revoking people's passports because they didn't pay their cable bill on time?

By the way, losing the ability to drive isn't an economic death sentence. I virtually never drive, and I'm fully employed and doing pretty well, partly because I don't have to pay for owning and operating a car.

But still: some state legislator in MT who's in the back pocket of some bank somewhere decides to put some idiot bill forward that links the right to drive a motor vehicle to the ability to pay a private (albeit federally-guaranteed) bank debt, and this bizarre bill actually passes?!

bragi

This is a brilliant post. I hope many others are able to read it before the thread gets moved elsewhere.

Roody

In some countries, I think you can get a year of university cheaper than a driver's license. That seems about right to me.

tandempower

At what point should the government revoke the right to lend money, sell a product in more than a single payment, or otherwise exchange future income for a purchase? Economic patterns predicated on the spending of borrowed money or promises of future payments are degenerative.

Maybe revoking driver's licenses in this way is a reasonable alternative to debtor's prison. At least people can retain their freedom without driving and get their budget under control without the burden of automotive expenses.

prathmann

Hopefully never. Seems like a sure way to send the economy into a tailspin that would make the Great Depression look like boom times.
Doesn't sound reasonable at all. There are far better ways to collect on unsecured government loans such as wage garnishment and/or asset seizure that don't interfere with a person's ability to keep their means of employment. In addition to those who rely on a car to get to/from work, there are also many jobs that require people to have a license since they may need to drive between job sites, to visit clients, make deliveries, etc.

no1mad 

Whoa... could've sworn I clicked on the LCF link and not the P & R link...

My $0.02: This topic has no relevance to this forum (but I'm not moving it since I'm 'involving' myself in the discussion).

Losing one's DL (for whatever reason) isn't some magical chrysalis that turns motorists into LCFers. Lack of a DL doesn't preclude owning a vehicle- what it does is make operating one without the DL illegal and subject to hefty fines if caught. I don't know about y'all, but I have known a few people in my lifetime who didn't have either insurance nor a DL and continued to drive.

Walter S

Just because some people take big chances with their health and safety and operate vehicles without responsibly insuring themselves doesn't mean it's reasonable to require that more intelligent people do that too.

tandempower

No punishment stops people from doing the thing they're punished for. The punishments are supposed to deter repeat offenses. If people continue to drive without a license and keep getting caught, they'll eventually get jail time and choose to stop taking the risk. At that point they are indeed LCF, maybe permanently if they actually continued driving without a license until they were put in jail for it.

Zedoo

Some students in those states (and probably more states later) study various subjects in college, and afterwards they get degrees in Carfree Living. This is an LCF topic, with the usual amount of LCF politics.

I-Like-To-Bike

What are degrees in Carfree Living? Philosophy Major or perhaps a degree in French Literature are good precursors for Carfree Living.

Roody

you love those stereotypes...sign of a lazy mind.

I-Like-To-Bike

What stereotype came to YOUR mind?
Romantic intellectual individual who chooses Carfree living as a good choice for his/her personal lifestyle, car free by choice;

or

Unemployed/underemployed college grad with an unmarketable degree and/or skill set; car free not by choice but by economic necessity, living on the edge. Perhaps posting on LCF looking for a support group and a positive spin on a failure to understand how others manage to function with the burden of car ownership.

Walter S

What a perfect penalty for those that live car free I