BadBurrito

Hello

after a break for a number of years, I'm planning on 200K, 300K, and for the first time for me, a 400K this spring. Since it's been a while I'm thinking I want to replace the little cateye light I have for something that really lights up the road ahead. I'm most concerned about lighting on the 400K. I have a strong mag light flashlight I've used for commuting and it's really bright, but at best it's only good for 90 minutes on it's rechargeable battery. It does have a stobe mode to extend the time, but the strobe mode is a bit unsettling to me so I've not used it much.

So what are your suggestions?

bikemig 

Signing on as I'm thinking of doing some long distance rides and could use some light advice as well.

I know 2 lights I'm thinking of are the B&M Ixon IQ premium and the fenix bc30. Both have good run times and you can replace the batteries.

unterhausen

the 400km distance really tests lights for me. I'm really worried about tail lights at that distance, particularly since I can't see back there easily. All my bikes have dyno lights front and back for that reason. I know people that only use battery lights. My backup headlight is a Cygolight that takes replaceable batteries.

rumrunn6

just curious, how many hours do those rides take?

Tim_Iowa

Many of the folks riding those distance use dynamo systems, so they don't have to worry.

Bike-discount.de has excellent prices; you could get a nice Shimano dynamo and 80 lux B&M light for less than $120.

B&M dynamo lights have very wide beams with sharp upper cutoffs; they illuminate the road ahead without blinding oncoming riders/drivers.

StephenH

I got a hub-generator setup right before my first 400k and have used it ever since.
I use multiple battery-powered taillights, currently three Bike Planet Super Flashes and one different light. All but one are on strobe, if that one starts getting weak, I'll put it on strobe and turn one of the others to solid. All fresh batteries before any longer night ride. A little battery-powered headlight resides in my trunk bag as a backup.
How long it takes is variable. For me, takes 18-20 hours, sometimes longer, for a 400k, rides usually start around daybreak, so you're looking at maybe 9 hours of dark riding this time of year.

unterhausen

fastest I've ever done a 400k brevet is 20 hours, slowest over 25 hours. They tend to be difficult rides. There are some faster 400k's out there.

It was good that I finished my first 400k in 20 hours, because right after I was done it started pouring. I already had 2 headlights fail because of riding 5 hours in the rain, I was on my third light.

clasher

That's the choice I made for myself a few years ago and I love it. I did my first 300K with battery lights and I only needed them for a couple of hours but I had the dynamo system all hooked up for my first try a 400K and it rained pretty hard for 4 hours or so as well as drizzle during the day, the B&M light is still going strong. My second 400K that I actually finished was so much easier with the B&M lights. I would use their battery lights if I didn't have a dynamo hub already. B&M have a new brighter light out for 2016 as well as some that have USB charging outlets for GPS/etc.

Drew Eckhardt 

I've been using "bright" battery lights on short rides (< 1 hour commutes) for years, previously MR16 Nite Riders, most recently Magic Shines because they take about as long to fail as the Nite Riders (halogen and LED) but cost only $30 each. Unfortunately battery life is unpredictable, decreases with age, and is short at high output. While failures are annoying commuting (just pick a better lit route), they don't mesh well enough with my idea of following 100 miles in 1/2016 plus 200K in 2/2016 with 300K in 3/2016 and beyond so I decided to take the dyno plunge with a higher quality main headlight.

Paired with a USB power supply a dyno hub will also mean I won't need to change my route after running out of phone battery for navigation like on my 200K (while fine for streets with one way to turn, simple cue sheets fail elsewhere), and will still have a working bike computer after 17 hours

I ordered my dyno parts from starbike February 26th, 2016 and they were delivered on March 14th within the 10-12 business day shipping quote. If I get lazy again and just commute, I'll still save myself a lot of charging and some trouble.

Based on google-fu, German technical reports, and no first-hand experience:

I ordered a Schmidt SON28 dynamo hub, Schmidt Edelux II headlight, B&M Toplight Line plus rack mount tail light, USB-Werk power supply, plus hardware.

$188 hub, $125 head light, $17 tail light, $54 USB power supply; or $326 to light up the road up front including $13 in spokes at $0.40 each. $397 total for both ends with USB power. Listed prices in Germany usually include 19% VAT which we don't pay; the conversion factor from Euros with VAT to dollars without is 1 taxed Euro = $0.92 tax-free.

The highly regarded lower-cost alternative would be a Shutter Precision PV-8 hub for $78 and 80 lux B&M Cyro Premium Senso T plus light for $52; or $143 for the front. Shimano's DH-3N80 for about $70 has more drag but comes with bearings you can service without rebuilding the wheel.

For a backup I grabbed a B&M Ixon IQ Premium sharing the same beam but 5 hour battery life at 80 Lux from bike-discount.de for $47 + $22 flat-rate shipping. If I need extended runtime due to a dyno-lighting failure I can pickup AA batteries at any convenience store.

I'm still deciding what to do about a helmet light - I'd like more than my Petzl Zipka if I'm forced to do roadside repairs (when commuting walking and taxis can substitute for a working bike), but haven't a clue how the extra weight will impact how I'm feeling hours after dark.

Shutter Precision only suggests 20,000km of bearing life and I failed to find actual numbers beyond that - one user reported 10K miles which is a year. With bearing replacement requiring wheel dis-assembly I punted on that. Shimano's hubs don't require rebuilding the wheel, although they loose a few Watts with the lights off and are not pretty. SuperNova uses Shutter Precision internals in different shells with better bearings, although that brings cost and weight up to the proven SON units.

SON claims 50,000km on the bearings with people reporting 70,000, the SON28 has has more power output at mountain climbing speeds to charge my phone and GPS than the SONDelux, the lower resistance more than compensates for the extra weight over the SP PV-8, and it looks nicer than alternatives. SON has a 5-year warranty; Shutter Precision 2.

A few people with some forks/stems/bars notice vibration at some speeds which varies between dynamos. I'm betting I'll be in the majority who don't have problems.

Google translated Future Bike dynamo comparison

Dynamo reviews with vibration comments

The 80 Lux B&M Cyro Premium and Edelux II share the same reflector and essentially match in output. They both have stand-lights when stopped for a while. I opted for the Edelux because the current incarnation is water proof, the lens is glass, and it has a nice aluminum case instead of plastic.

The new 100 lux B&M IQ-X looks good with its aluminum case; but in disassembled pictures the cable inlet is not as water proofed as on the Edelux, and I could not find a silver one. The B&M Luxos-U provides light plus USB in one unit, although it turns off the USB when its cache battery gets low and I'd like to decide for myself when I'm willing to accept less light to maintain device power. Direct from Germany a Luxos U costs about the same as a Cyro Premium plus a separate USB-Werk so including USB only gets you fewer cables. There are still reports of water ingress with the Luxos although they replaced the remote-control plug with a permanently connected wire.

Basler Bikes headlamp comparison (B&M Cyro Premium 80 Lux, B&M Luxos B 70 Lux, SON Edelux II, B&M battery lights...)

Peter White's beam comparisons (B&M dyno and battery)

Magic Shine to Edelux (original) comparison . The Edelux ii is 30% brighter than the original Edelux with a wider beam.

Google translated disassembled B&M IQ X

I opted for silver anodized instead of polished on the SON / Edelux for a better match with my shiny but not mirror like silver components. I considered a center-lock SON28 with a cover for future proofing, but stuck with the rim-brake model because the bracing angle is better, it looks better with the flanges closer to the fork blades, the price of a new hub would be a rounding error if I ever upgrade to a disc frame, and at that point I'll want a SON SL which connects electrically through the dropouts not wires.

The Toplight Line Plus isn't tiny, has a built-in reflector, and stand light. I also have Cygolite Hotshot 2W flashers which last a really long time so I'm not relying on it to be bright, just bigger.

The E-Werk (and presumably USB-Werk which does USB only) works better (low idle draw, has more low speed output, is more efficient) than other units.

I opted for the USB-Werk not the more expensive E-Werk because I have no plans to charge non-USB backup lights while riding, and the USB-Werk includes a cache battery so it doesn't drop power when you stop briefly which generates power connect/disconnect messages on some devices.

The short E-Werk/USB-Werk stub cables can fail due to insufficient strain relief, although I expect with stem mounting or connectors zip-tied to my frame that won't happen.

E-Werk failure and repair

The USB-Werk cache battery is small, so device charging still stops sometimes with the rider. If that annoys me I'll try a separate cache battery.

Google translated Future Bike USB power supply comparison

unterhausen

buying a dyno was the best investment I have made in cycling. I can't count the number of times I had to cut a ride short, or worse, got back after dark because of no lights. With dyno, they are always on the bike. It's very liberating

antimonysarah

+1 for dynamos. I actually got my first one on a utility bike, not for distance, and when I started riding brevets there was just no question. So nice. I didn't have a dyno taillight until this Christmas (and don't actually have it installed yet) but am going to keep my double PB Superflashes on there as well as the dyno light -- the dyno taillights aren't all as impressive as the headlights, plus unless I'm riding with other people, I can set one or both superflashes to blink.

You'll also want a small light on your helmet to see street signs and your cue sheet. I (like many) like the Petzl e+LITE, which is super-tiny and light and is easy to turn on and off without having to push it and cycle through modes. I only turn it on when I want to read something, generally into the red mode to preserve my night vision.

Tim_Iowa

How do you mount the e+LITE to your helmet?

antimonysarah

Zip ties to the little metal bracket on the back, which means I can still tilt it if I need to. Where helmets have holes in them varies a lot, so the exact zip-tying configuration that works on mine might not work on them all. (IIRC mine's a Specialized Echelon, for the record.)

Tim_Iowa

Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll give that one a try.

I'm currently using the Niterider helmet strap mount for a Niterider 200 lumen AA light that I have.

The mount is so-so; it has an adjustable pivot (nice) but that pivot means that the light will wobble/vibrate a bit (not nice). The mount strapped on to the holes of my Bern Brentwood helmet just fine, less janky than I expected. I'll see how well it attaches to my Bell summer helmet.
The light is OK, but I already have two of them so I'll use them 'til they wear out.

Drew Eckhardt 

I have an old Zipka I use as a backup for commuting which has a similar retracting cord. Passing the cord loop through a helmet slot then around the light secures it.

Carbonfiberboy 

15-18.5 hrs. here. The B&M Ixon is a good lamp. I like the sharp cutoff. IMO, you want two headlamps. I'll usually burn one at a time, the other being back-up, but on fast descents I'll burn them both. For a taillight, nothing beats a Dinotte. I always have two taillights, too. One super good like a Dinotte, one $30 variety. After you've done brevets for a couple of years and still love it, then get the dyno wheel and lights to go with it.

There are online bike light databases which have all the stats and prices: https://www.bikelightdatabase.com/

yannisg

On all brevets >300 klm I use the Serfas TSL-2500 as a headlight.
I use the lowest level which last 7hrs. If the brevet is long 600 or 1000 klm where I need the light for more than 7 hrs I'll take the charger with me, and re-charge the battery at control points.
I also use concurrently a helmet light which is useful to direct light at signposts or traffic pulling out of side streets, and for roadside repairs.
My rear light is a simple battery operated light.
I conserve the battery charge on the Serfas by switching off the light on steep long up hills where I'm going less than 10 kph or if the town I'm going through is well lit where the helmet light is adequate.
I'll carry spare batteries for the helmet and rear light.
I have gone through many integrated battery operated lights, and have found that this combination works best for me.
YannisG

joewein

On brevets I carry a Volt 300 battery head light as backup just because it's required, but in 35,000 km I've never had any issues with B&M lights in the rain. Batteries are OK for rear lights if you make sure to install fresh (or freshly recharged) batteries before the ride but for the front hub dynamos are the way to go for long distance.

I had the front wheel of my Bike Friday rebuilt with a Shimano dynamo hub and a B&M Lumotec headlight before I even did the first century ride and haven't looked back. I put 35,000 km with numerous brevets on it. The rear lights are still battery operated (2x + one on the back of the helmet). Half a year ago I switched the front wheel to a disc brake and had it rebuilt with SP PL-8 (centerlock) hub dynamo because I had heard only good things about SP.

For my second bike, the Elephant NFE, I also went for the SP PL-8 but with a B&M Secula dynamo rear light so there's one more set of batteries I won't have to think about.

83cannondale

Old thread I know - My 2 cents on son 28. I've got one and it seems to have quite a bit of drag! When I ride with friends at 16+mph i can really feel vibration which I think is pretty serious drag. So you're having the drag during the day when you don't really need the light. I'm thinking of switching to battery lights. Sometimes feel the same at lower, 8-9 mph as well.

Just a thought - does anyone else share this thought or has had this experience?

joewein

I've not any issues with drag from dynamo hubs, either the Shimano or the SP PL-8. In fact I often ended up switching off the headlight in the afternoon on a ride I started early in the morning, simply because I didn't realize sooner that the light was switched on from an early start or from the night before.

Cyril 

The SON 28 does have a noticeable drag...as do some others.
Though none are drag - free, the shutter precision hubs are known for being least noticeable.

unterhausen

vibration doesn't mean drag. My experience with vibration is that it is an interaction between the hub and the light. Change lights, and it may not happen or it may happen at different speeds. Older dynohubs may not have as little drag as the newer hubs. With my Shimano and SP dynohubs, I am still the fastest on downhills, so I'm not worried about drag.

83cannondale

Son 28 new drag - Have BM luxos iq front and toplight rear with built in charger. Was thinking about maybe trying velogical rim drive dynamo. That way I can just engage as needed and not have full time drag.

VELOGICAL HOME

Anybody have any experience with those? Thanks all for input on son 28 - my first dynamo and wasn't sure if my experience was normal or I got a bad one - rebuilt from Peter White.

unterhausen

I have yet to experience vibration with my IQ-X and shimano hub. In fact, I don't think I've had vibration with any BuM light. Had a lot of vibration with a home-made light and with a Supernova using the same Shimano hub. Strangely enough, I've never had any vibration with the Supernova and an SP hub.

The few people that I've seen discussing the Velogical seem to like it. I thought about one for my fatbike, but SP is coming out with a hub.

Flamme Rouge

For brevets 300-400km I like battery lights. For 600km I like to use a generator hub if riding straight through, otherwise a battery light. Nothing but a generator for 1200km. It probably helps that I ride a 400 in +/- 16 hours. For me, battery lights are simpler/lighter and I can run a faster (non-generator) wheelset. I know this is not the common approach for randonneurs.

I've been using a NiteRider Lumina Micro, which is rechargeable, for 3 years with very satisfactory results. Just upgraded to the new 600 which claims a 7.5 hour runtime at 150 lumens. This is plenty of light if you're used to an eDeluxe II or Supernova E3. I haven't run it down but can confirm 5+ hours.

One note about *really* bright headlights. I hate having them behind me in a nighttime paceline. The shadows give me vertigo. If I'm in your group I'll ask you to turn it down unless you're on the front.