PedalingWalrus

Howdy.

I am tempted to try a local event that involves fairly extreme uphill bike ride with an elevation gain about 5000 feet. I have hiked that mountain many times and I am able to do 20 + miles hiking in a tough mountain environment. I also seem to have a good enough power in my legs, torqueing up pretty steep hills when on my fat bike. I have done one road bike ride around half of an island with approximately 5000 - 6000 Feet in elevation gain... otherwise I bike almost every day during times where there is not too much snow on the road.

My question is: What is it like to bike CONTINUOUSLY uphill without any break. With a granny gear is it comparable to hiking up a mountain?

Machka 

Not really a Long Distance forum question ...

But, yes, it is similar.

PedalingWalrus

This forum is:

• Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling

I figured it would fit under Endurance Cycling.

Machka 

It may feel like it ... but no. Not unless the ride to the top of the mountain was a metric century or longer??

PedalingWalrus

sweet. I hope then that the moderator of this forum moves it to an appropriate forum and I get some answers from someone who actually does uphills.

Machka 

BTW, I'm basing my answer on the fact that I do hike up mountains ...

... and this ride about a week ago:

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post18550848



... and this:

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...challenge.html

PedalingWalrus

looks good. Good job. The one I'm attempting is a bit more. Actually just past week there was a first official ascent on Mt.Washington on a fat bike and next week is a race that for the first time allows fat bikes in the race. I have hiked up there many times and understand the weather considerations but I just wasn't sure about biking it.
https://www.redbull.com/us/en/bike/stories/1331777090543/first-ascent-mount-washington-winter-on-a-fat-bike

NYMXer

I would not compare biking up a hill the same as hiking up a hill, for several reasons but the biggest being the added weight of the bike. Then there is also the bike gearing and effort needed to climb.

I do all three (road, Mtb and hike) and you would think they are similar, but heck no. The road bike is the easiest, hence the longer mile rides but I think calories spent per hour is about the same as Mtbing, except that Mtbing has more HIIT type of power exertion. Depending on where you live and ride anyways. Here in the Catskills of NYS, you have climbs everywhere you ride and some are pretty steep at over 10% with most being 5-6% but long.

Most of my rides are 4,000+ elevations on the road bike, and a few like that on the Mtb. Hiking uphills has always been slightly easier, unless I have a backpack on. That backpack made it just as difficult and heavy breathing and sweating was more like Mtbing, due to the lower speeds not wicking sweat off you like when on a road bike.

I hope that gives you some help, but try it and report back to us.

Machka 

One thing which has helped with both cycling up mountains and hiking is stair climbing. These days I climb 30-40 flights a day 5 days a week, and what a difference that has made.

Carbonfiberboy 

IME it's nothing like hiking up a mountain. It's more like trail running up a mountain with a 17 lb. pack. There'll probably be people there who will do it in a little over an hour. You'll want to be comfortable, i.e. pain-tolerant, with a continuous 2 hour climb, or less time if you're fast. If you've never done anything like this before, you're not going to believe how much it's going to hurt. Train on the bike. Your objective will be to maintain a constant pace and never stop, rest, or get off the bike.

Tourist in MSN

I am in my 60s and am content to let everybody pass me, so I just pedal along at a comfortable pace. I wear a heart rate monitor, not because I have any heart problems, but for the same reason that I like a tachometer on a motorcycle or my truck. I like to know how fast the engine is going.

For long hard pedaling, I like to keep my heart rate below about 140 to 145 if I am going to be doing it for several hours. What does that mean for hill climbing? I like to maintain a minimum speed of about 3.5 mph (~5.6 km/hour) and I like to maintain a minimum cadence of 72. Some people say they can stay upright as much slower speeds, but I find that if I fall below about 3.5 mph, I have to work harder to stay upright than I would like. Why a cadence of at least 72? Slower and I feel like my pedaling is not very smooth and I don't like to push too hard on my knees. Based on this, if I am riding a bike of about 35 pounds (including water, food, rain gear, cool weather gear, etc.) I can handle a grade of about 5.9 percent with a granny gear of 25.1 gear inches (30T chainring and 32T rear sprocket) and still keep my heart rate in a comfortable range.

If it gets steeper, my heart rate gets higher than I like. If I put on a 24T chainring, that gets my lowest gear down to 20.1 gear inches, that would allow me to maintain climbing up a slope of about 7.5 percent.

If the hill is steeper, I would have to stop and take periodic breaks to let my heart rate fall. And if really steep, I get off and push.

You did not say anything about how steep the hill is, if it is a constant grade or varying steepness, or what your lowest gear is, or if you are a speed demon. My point is that the steeper the grade, the lower the gear ratio I need, but there is a minimum to how low I can go and be able to maintain sufficient speed to stay upright.

Maybe you need to go do some hill climbing and think about how it would compare to the hill you want to climb.

My heart rate never went over 135 while pedaling my fully loaded touring bike (with camping gear, food, cooking gear, etc.) up Going to the Sun Road in Glacier National Park, but I stopped and took a break about every 350 to 500 feet of elevation gain. Each break was less than 5 minutes, but it gave me some chances to stop and take some photos, stay hydrated, eat a few calories, and enjoy the ride more than I would have enjoyed a continuous climb up thousands of feet of elevation.

The hill in the photo was a real tough hill, but it was short so I survived without having to stop.

skidder

No, from my experience bicycling up a hill and hiking up a hill are not comparable. The biggest difference I've notice are they both use different muscle groups. And coming downhill; bicycling is easy (just coast down!), while hiking downhill will 'jar' your joints and muscles possible leaving them quite sore the next day. Hiking or bicycling will get you in shape for the other, but not in optimal shape. Machka's suggestion of doing stairs on a regular basis is good, as that's the best simulator I know of for going uphill (and downhill). Also try riding up a few hills to get a feel for what it takes - try different grades, too.

Richard Cranium

Answering theoretical questions is usually nonsense. Perfect subject matters for a know-it-all like me.

Riding up hill on a bicycle is harder than hiking because the mass of the rider/bicycle is not experienced continuously everyday.

Additional complexity is created by various combinations of bicycle-gearing vs walking stride as well as the differing postures and handlebar/seat usage of a bicycle.

I choose not to waste any addition time on vague inquiries, but specific logic exists for application to specific climbing situations.

CliffordK

A 20 mile uphill hike with a 30+ pound backpack doesn't sound like fun at all, and likely would probably take a couple of days. Of course, one might choose a steeper (shorter) path than one would typically take on a road.

I've done a 20 mile or so uphill ride on the bike. Hard, but doable in a few hours. For me, I just kind of keep plodding along.

I don't know if I needed to stop, but I did take a lunch/food break in the middle.

Carbonfiberboy 

If this is the Mt. Washington road that's being talked about, that's 4720' and 7.6 miles. I'm 70 and I could hike that with 30 lbs. in about 3 hours or so in summer. Time to climb is more usually about feet or meters per hour. A strong club rider can climb at about 2400'/hr. A pro, 5000' or so. Of course it's going to be a lot slower on a fat bike in winter. I find riding uphill on a bike easier than hiking in that I can do more vertical feet per hour than on foot.

gregf83 

I think hiking up a mountain and biking up use similar muscles and feel reasonably close to me. With hiking, to get the same level of effort without running you need a much steeper trail. We happen to have two ski hills next to Vancouver with similar elevation changes of around 800m. One hill has a road with an avg grade of 6.8%, and the other has a trail with about 29% grade. I climb both at roughly the same vertical rate and often ending up doing them close to 'all-out'. They feel similar. For equivalent grades to feel the same you'd need to running not walking. Also, if the grades are the same your vertical ascent rate (VAM) will be higher on the bike.

Tourist in MSN

Good point on the downhills. I backpacked in Grand Canyon two years ago. I brought my GPS and from that I found that my uphill hiking speed was faster than downhill. I have bad knees and can't go downhill very fast.

pacalolo

Walking up is easier in my opinion. Because what happens when you can't push your bike any more? You walk. If it was harder, then you wouldn't choose to walk instead of ride.

<I live in FL. I have almost zero experience with hills >

gsa103

I routinely cycle up Mt. Diablo (~3300 gain over 11 mi). Basically, 6% average grade. Typically, you're working harder biking than you would hiking. In general, you'll want to maintain a smooth cadence. There's a difference between road vs trail. Roads are much more consistent while trails have much more local features (rocks/roots) which require significantly more effort than a flat road.

Based on your previous fitness level, its definitely within your capability, but you're gonna notice after an hour or two. For a ride that long, you're definitely going to want to stop and eat a bar or something at some during the trip up.

CliffordK

In general that is true, in part because one typically walks slower than one rides, and it is easier to stop and take a breather, then start walking again.

However, there are exceptions.

I've carried heavy enough cargo loads that it is extremely difficult to pull it up a hill walking. And, one does in fact do better getting the appropriate gearing keep going on the bike. And, those are loads that are heavier than I could carry without some kind of cart.

Actually, I've thought about installing outriggers on my cargo bike to allow maximizing the gearing gain I could get through cycling.

Tourist in MSN

A couple years ago I did a group tour with 15 others. One rider had a recumbent trike and pulled a trailer.

I accused him of cheating. He asked why I said that? I said that I needed to maintain 3.5 mph to stay upright, but he could ride any speed he wanted to.