Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Training bike vs "competition" bike

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Old 11-08-17, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to mislead you. Of course you need a new Ti bike that will fit fenders or be banished to the 'C' ride at your local bike shop.
Not at all mate! Nowt to be sorry about. I may just strap a set of Crud busters on for good measure next season and off I go, earning my card for PBP :-)
No need for us to hijack the thread to argue about whether "need" actually equates to "really want"...

Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
All I will say is that the true definition of a 'rando rig' is one that is ridden on randonees. And by that measure, almost any bike is a rando rig. Truely. After that there are only preferences. Ride what you like. Chances are that will evolve over time as well.
Mic drop! You nailed it.

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Old 11-11-17, 10:08 PM
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[QUOTE=dim;19976297]Giant Defy is a great bike for long distance/audax rides .... get some Apidura bags, dynamo lights, a decent saddle, tubeless ready rims with good tubeless tyres such as IRC or Hutchinson 28 and you can ride Indipac or similar long distane rides

this is the sort of setup that you can achieve:

[QUOTE]

That Curve is so nice. Very impressive.
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Old 11-11-17, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by joewein View Post
Whether you complete an event depends more on how you train for it than what bike you ride. That includes learning when and how how much too eat, what pace to keep, how long to keep your stops, etc. What bike you ride is secondary (within reason). Just make sure it fits you (handlebar height, reach, seat height, etc) and you have a saddle that works for you.

For four seasons I rode all my randonnes (200 km to 600 km) on my Bike Friday Pocket Rocket folding bike. A guy in our club makes a point of showing up for each randonnee he joins on a different bike, riding anything from a Surly fat bike with 4 inch tires to a 7 speed shopping bike to a 26" MTB.

I've done many of my 200 km randonnees with just a small handlebar bag (just big enough for tools, one spare tube and a USB battery) plus a seatpost bag or saddle bag to bring food, jackets, etc. You're not going to be riding through the night or across a huge variety of terrain in a 200 km.

Having more carrying capacity becomes important only on the longer rides where you might need more clothes or be prepared for changing weather.

Get some experience riding long distance before you spend money on a different bike when you already have one. The practical experience will help you understand what it is that need for the job.
thanks joewein. Your post touches on another topic; maybe better for a new post, but I will ask anyways. I have been riding an average of 500 miles a month for just under a year, since I started actually tracking miles/times/etc. Here what a week looks like, these are approximations, so the math may be off a little. 4 rides around 15 miles, and 2 rides 25-40 miles. These distances in the saddles are due to life's responsibilities; work/kids,etc. So, I go out as much as I can, and as far as I can with the time available. If I want to train for a distance of 200km, how should I change the distances/time in saddle to better prepare? Stick to the smaller rides during the week and try for increasingly longer single ride on weekends? Do longer and fewere "small" rides? Any advice? thanks
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Old 11-11-17, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
I have fenders and I live in the desert. They keep the trash off my chain and they kept me from getting sprayed with cold rain on the last brevet I did, where I got hailed and rained on at the same time, while pedaling into a headwind and up hill (seriously). Are they absolutely necessary for randonneuring? Definitely not; the two other people I rode with that day did not have them at all and they did just fine.

To answer your original question, ride whatever bike makes you happy enough to ride that day. Go on 80+ mile rides regularly; that seems to be where my hydration and nutrition deficit kicks in if I'm not careful. Get used to riding whatever bike you choose at those distances and you'll have no problem completing a 200k with hours to spare. Time limits are not a concern as long as you keep your control stops to no more than about 20-30 minutes and keep moving.

Do you keep track of your average speed now? If you can average even 12 mph over the course of a 50+ mile ride, you should have no problem finishing if you don't have a nasty mechanical.
I don't have a lot of data; I just got a Garmin 820 just under a year ago. (Before owning a Garmin) I have ridden (2) Centuries/Miles, (1) metric century. I didn't own a computer at the time; I think around 9.5 hours on the Centuries, I don't recall. I wasn't as "serious" about riding when I rode these. The data I have: a bunch of 35-48 mile rides averaging around 15mph with anywhere from 2500-3500 vertical feet of climbing. These rides took 2:30-3:15 to complete. These rides are always different routes, different terrain. Maybe, I need to ride the same route a couple times to really get some more telling numbers.
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Old 11-11-17, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
I don't have a lot of data; I just got a Garmin 820 just under a year ago. I have ridden (2) Centuries/Miles, (1) metric century. I didn't own a computer at the time; I think around 9.5 hours on the Centuries, I don't recall. I wasn't as "serious" about riding when I rode these. The data I have: a bunch of 40-50 mile rides averaging around 15mph with anywhere from 2500-3500 vertical feet of climbing. These rides took 2:30-3:15 to complete. These rides are always different routes, different terrain. Maybe, I need to ride the same route a couple times to really get some more telling numbers.
Nope, you have nothing to worry about! Get your butt to a 200k and earn yourself a medal.
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Old 11-17-17, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
I have ridden (2) Centuries/Miles, (1) metric century.
If you can ride a century, you can ride a 200 km brevet. In general, if you have done 70% of the distance before, you can also do the next ride.

To prepare for a ride, you need to work on your fitness, your stamina and be mentally prepared.

Fitness rides can be fast 1-2 hour rides that help to raise your threshold level. You can do 1-3 of these during the week.

For stamina you need slightly longer rides, but the benefits level off after about 6 hours.

The mental component is what benefits most from longer rides, like a century ride on the weekend. Doing these rides is what makes brevet distances no longer seem intimidating. You learn to pace yourself, to eat the right amount at proper intervals, to think of the long ride as a series of shorter rides to intermediate goals. You figure out what you need to bring along and what to leave behind, what equipment works for you, etc.

I usually ride about two (imperial) centuries a month, plus a couple of shorter rides, all year round.
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Old 11-22-17, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
thanks joewein. Your post touches on another topic; maybe better for a new post, but I will ask anyways. I have been riding an average of 500 miles a month for just under a year, since I started actually tracking miles/times/etc. Here what a week looks like, these are approximations, so the math may be off a little. 4 rides around 15 miles, and 2 rides 25-40 miles. These distances in the saddles are due to life's responsibilities; work/kids,etc. So, I go out as much as I can, and as far as I can with the time available. If I want to train for a distance of 200km, how should I change the distances/time in saddle to better prepare? Stick to the smaller rides during the week and try for increasingly longer single ride on weekends? Do longer and fewere "small" rides? Any advice? thanks
If time is limited, intervals! On your longer rides, ride up every hill in sight. See hill, ride up it. Steepness shouldn't matter. Never walk. Doesn't matter what you have to do, right straight ahead and up the hill. No paperboying. On the shorter rides, there are a zillion interval protocols. Generally start with longer, less intense, work up to short, very intense as the event approaches. Rando hurts. Start banking the pain now.

Intervals will increase your endurance a heckuva lot more than just riding the miles. Developing your high end is the most important thing for rando, other than learning to stay in the saddle, making your controls stops very short, and learning to eat and drink appropriately.
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Old 11-22-17, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
...Here what a week looks like, these are approximations, so the math may be off a little. 4 rides around 15 miles, and 2 rides 25-40 miles. These distances in the saddles are due to life's responsibilities; work/kids,etc. So, I go out as much as I can, and as far as I can with the time available. If I want to train for a distance of 200km, how should I change the distances/time in saddle to better prepare? Stick to the smaller rides during the week and try for increasingly longer single ride on weekends? Do longer and fewere "small" rides? Any advice? thanks
While I'm sure intervals will make you faster, and @Carbonfiberboy always gives good advice, I finished an R80 series this year without riding a single interval. The only thing that every really gives me any discomfort at all on brevets is my butt, and you're not going to toughen that up with intervals. You need more time in the saddle. In the spring I typically ride 70-80 miles on Saturday, 40-50 miles on Sunday, 20-30 miles once or twice during the week, and core/strength training two or three times during the week. Even in the winter my shortest rides are at least an hour. I don't think a bunch of 15 mile rides will do much to prepare you for long rides.
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Old 11-22-17, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
While I'm sure intervals will make you faster, and @Carbonfiberboy always gives good advice, I finished an R80 series this year without riding a single interval. The only thing that every really gives me any discomfort at all on brevets is my butt, and you're not going to toughen that up with intervals. You need more time in the saddle. In the spring I typically ride 70-80 miles on Saturday, 40-50 miles on Sunday, 20-30 miles once or twice during the week, and core/strength training two or three times during the week. Even in the winter my shortest rides are at least an hour. I don't think a bunch of 15 mile rides will do much to prepare you for long rides.
Not only faster, but gives you a lot more endurance. I've ridden 400ks with no ride longer than 60 miles, but of course I know how to pace and take care of myself, which as you say one only learns from distance. OTOH, 200k is not "distance", just a pleasant day's ride.

I agree that what you're doing is optimal for you and for most people, though my read of the OP is that he doesn't have that much time available. If there were a little more time available, I'd recommend riding almost every day, if only for 30 minutes because that really makes a difference in building a rando butt. The other thing I'd recommend is to normally ride on the flat at ~90 cadence and having gears to enable doing long climbs at 75-80 cadence. Need a computer with cadence anyway.

So say:

a Sunday ride, working up to 60 miles, with hills at about 50' climbing/mile or 3000' in 60 miles

Monday 30 minute recovery ride

Tuesday 15 miles, including 30 minutes of pedaling on the flat at as high a cadence as possible in a very low gear, maybe lowest gear, shooting for 115 cadence or just below bouncing. Probably have to start with 15 minutes and work up to it. Keep the effort low.

Wednesday hill repeats, 25 miles total, find one 10-15 minute hill and ride it hard as you can 4 times - descend and go back up

Thursday 1 hour ride at steady moderate pace

Friday speed work on the flat, 6 repeats of 30 seconds max power, 5 minutes easy, 30 miles total

Saturday off

That's good enough training to enable one to ride almost any distance. If the OP doesn't have that much time, scale the mileage back but keep the intervals the same.
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Old 11-22-17, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I agree that what you're doing is optimal for you and for most people, though my read of the OP is that he doesn't have that much time available. If there were a little more time available, I'd recommend riding almost every day
Thanks for the post. I guess, bottom line, I need to put in more miles if I am going to shoot for a successful 200k. As you mentioned, my time is limited due to life's responsibilities. (ie I have a 5yr old and 7 yr old daughters). I think I need to examine using that limited time better. Going out and doing the same sort of rides over and over is likely not the best use of that limited time. Maybe some speed work, hill work; mix it up. I could potentially also get up earlier in the morning and extend those "short" rides. But than of course, you are dealing with less sleep which can be detrimental.
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Old 11-22-17, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
Thanks for the post. I guess, bottom line, I need to put in more miles if I am going to shoot for a successful 200k. As you mentioned, my time is limited due to life's responsibilities. (ie I have a 5yr old and 7 yr old daughters). I think I need to examine using that limited time better. Going out and doing the same sort of rides over and over is likely not the best use of that limited time. Maybe some speed work, hill work; mix it up. I could potentially also get up earlier in the morning and extend those "short" rides. But than of course, you are dealing with less sleep which can be detrimental.
I regard two workouts as holy: the weekend ride and the FastPedal workout (the 115 cadence thing). Even the weekend ride I have to miss sometimes due to weather - I don't ride when it's frozen or below 40 when it's raining. All the rest is variable to suit my Real Life and how my legs feel. For more ideas, hop on down to the "33". Here's a sample: The BikeForums.net workout recipe book

No, rando is not racing but they sure as heck publish the times, don't they? And I for one don't want to be sitting on a bike saddle or riding in the dark for any longer than necessary. It is true that nothing builds endurance like intervals. The weekend ride can also count as the week's intervals if done hard enough. I've often done that and just ridden moderate all week except for the FastPedal. The purpose of that latter is to develop efficiency on the bike and rando is all about being efficient. You want to be able to get up the road at 18 mph without even breathing hard.

My method on the weekend ride is simply to ride every hill as hard as I can. That means that I'll wear out fairly early and start getting dropped, but I don't care. I'm trying to simulate a long hard ride using a "short" hard ride. There'll be many rides where it'll be all I can do to just reach the finish. I always say, "If I can still walk at the finish, I could have gone harder." That's how I build endurance. One doesn't start building endurance until one begins to endure.
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Old 11-22-17, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
...As you mentioned, my time is limited due to life's responsibilities. (ie I have a 5yr old and 7 yr old daughters). I think I need to examine using that limited time better. Going out and doing the same sort of rides over and over is likely not the best use of that limited time. Maybe some speed work, hill work; mix it up. I could potentially also get up earlier in the morning and extend those "short" rides. But than of course, you are dealing with less sleep which can be detrimental.
I often get up at 3 or 4 AM on Saturday so I can get my long ride in and still be home to spend the day with the family. I have 4 kids, but they're older now, 14-18.
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Old 11-25-17, 12:46 AM
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Looks like I might not be too far wrong with what I'm doing - I'm driving to work, then going for a 1 hour ride. I'm now doing that every weekday. It means getting up an hour earlier, and that was hard for a while, but I'm now at a stage where I'm not noticing the early starts and, although physically tired by the end of the working week, my average speed hasn't dropped.

I was aware of intervals for strength, but not for endurance. I've been naturally attacking some parts of my ride but I might start putting some more effort into that side of things.

Then there's the weekend for a long ride but haven't gone beyond a couple of hours or so at this stage.

And to think that five years ago I was riding more than twice what I'm doing now and very fit - we lose that fitness very easily as we get older and it's a lot harder to get back dammit.
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