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Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

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Old 12-14-17, 09:52 PM   #1
Happy Feet
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Winter HIIT spin training regime question

Hi all,

I've recently begun going to the rec center to get a more specific work out during the winter season so I can build distance this spring. They have spinning bikes there and am strengthening my VMO (physio suggested) for better knee tracking. I also cycle commute about 1 hr a day.

I finished the fall doing a 200k ride and several centuries which was a fairly easy doable distance but would like to work up the distance. I want to try a four day, 1000km ride (300/200/300/200) by next summer. I'm very comfortable with slow endurance training and theory from LD running years ago but don't know too much about what a good HIIT spinning regime might look like to achieve better bike endurance without camping out at the center for hours at a time. I could probably spend 1 hr on one or two spin bikes without getting the boot.

Tuesday I did 30 minutes at 90rpm (8th gear) and then 5x30seconds (15th gear) with 30 second rest intervals back at 8th gear. I could have worked harder at the 30 minutes but felt my legs working to failure by the end of the intervals. I know 8th and 15th are meaningless terms but the idea is there.

I've read about determining LTHR and plan to try to do that but for now am just working at maintaining cadence at various levels of resistance. Probably/maybe I will buy a HR monitor as some of the bikes don't register HR it seems.

Any experience with basic spin programs designed for endurance would be welcome.
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Old 12-14-17, 11:21 PM   #2
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Spin bike training will be very similar to training on your own bike on a trainer or resistance rollers. I usually limit myself to 1 hour/session to prevent burnout. Some wisdom here:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/h...base-training/

Some recipes for particular workouts here: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-b...cipe-book.html
Though they mostly go by FTP, you can kinda get the idea of how hard to go. I'm a great believer in periodization for this kind of thing as mentioned by Rutberg.

VT1 is the breathing rate which is the upper limit of your being able to recite the alphabet in one breath. You'll be breathing deeply, but just below the point at which rate will start to increase rapidly.

Every week I try to do one workout all season: CTS calls it FastPedal. Pedal zone 1 for 15 minutes, then pedal 115-120 (or as fast as you can without bouncing) at VT1 in a very low gear, so that you're breathing deeply but not fast. Hold that for a continuous 15-45 minutes, then finish with a little more zone 1 to cool down. If you can't pedal that fast in that zone, hold the zone and pedal as fast as you can.

For a non-interval steady-state hour, pedal in VT1 at about 90 cadence for an hour.

So say you did a FastPedal and 2 VT1 rides, that's 3, so then add a couple interval rides of your choice. Having a little warm up and cool down and then periodizing, say:
Zone 3, 6-20 minutes at 100 cadence, 5 minutes very easy then another one or more of those to fill the hour.
Zone 3, 10-15 minutes at 50 cadence, 5 minutes easy, fill the hour.
Zone 4, 15 minutes at ~90, 15' VT1, etc.
And then all the HIIT type of thing with all it's permutations.
Though I usually don't do just one thing for weeks at a time, I mix it up with the emphasis changing as the winter goes on.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:42 AM   #3
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Thank you very much. I'll read those links.
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Old 12-15-17, 08:26 PM   #4
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Well, still looking at those links, the recipe book is interesting!

Today I tried doing a static resistance variable cadence routine that looked something like this

10' warm up to 10th gear at 90 cadence which I think is about my VT1. The machine says about 150 watts. I don't know because I don't have a cadence monitor on my bike but I think if I were trying to ride all day I would do something like 75 - 80 cadence (?) so 90 is faster than usual but not too hard.

3x5' intervals at 100 cadence with 5' recovery at 90 cadence and about 175 watts
5x1' at 110 cadence with 1' recovery at 90 cadence and about 195 watts.

10 minutes cool down at 90 cadence.

60 minutes total.

My cadence was pretty steady at 90 but fluctuates quite a bit at 110 so I could see one goal being to try and steady that.

Anyways, something new over the winter to play with.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 12-15-17 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 12-16-17, 08:16 AM   #5
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Do the spin bikes have power? Cadence is very much independent of power once you learn how to pedal at high rates efficiently. Heart rate is important, but it lags quite a bit. I can be going at 150 percent of ftp for a minute before my heart rate catches up.
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Old 12-16-17, 12:03 PM   #6
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Tabata intervals are really fast to do if you have some short times to squeeze a ride in, and don't require having power or heart rate or any other metrics on the bike, you just go as hard as you can, period. (The actual Tabata protocol, not the various things aerobics/spin class instructors randomly call Tabata but aren't. Warm up, eight intervals at 20 seconds as hard as you can possibly go with 10 seconds rest in between, cool down, sounds a lot easier than it is. I have an recording I listen to that goes through a warmup sequence and then calls out the intervals, which is absolutely necessary because by the end I can't focus well enough to count it off myself.)

The nice thing about it is that the entire sequence is 20 minutes, so I can do it over my lunch break at work, stretch and do a little upper body work, shower, get some food, and be back at my desk in under an hour.
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Old 12-16-17, 10:28 PM   #7
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I'm a little afraid but think I'll give that tabata a try

What's meant by power Unter? The bike is an M3 Keiser I think with mag resistance between 1 - 20.

Do you mwan a power meter? If so I don't know but it gives a watt readout that changes with resistance and/or cadence.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:39 AM   #8
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I've been riding with various randonneurs for a long time. I notice that almost all of the better (faster) riders use a cadence of ~100 on the flat and quite a high cadence climbing also, maybe 85 or so. I think the idea is that a higher cadence uses more oxygen but spares glycogen which starts to become a bigger deal in rides over 200k. So trying to increase my self-selected cadence is one of the big things I'd work on over the winter.
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Old 12-21-17, 09:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
...So trying to increase my self-selected cadence is one of the big things I'd work on over the winter.
I think this is what I am noticing as a goal as well.

My cadence for touring is steady but slow (probably 80 somewhere) as I try to not exert myself so I can ride all day at that pace. On the spin I find a 90 cadence sort of a faster but still easish pace so I am interested to see if that sense of easy will allow a faster resting or non stressed cadence down the road. Last night I did 1 hour of:

10' warm up to 90rpm at 10th gear.
10x (30" fast as I could 13th gear while maintaining form /30" 90rpm rest at 10th gear)
4x (5' 100rpm /5' 90rpm rest 10th gear)

plus a VMO strengthening to help correct my knee tracking issue.
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Old 12-21-17, 11:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I think this is what I am noticing as a goal as well.

My cadence for touring is steady but slow (probably 80 somewhere) as I try to not exert myself so I can ride all day at that pace. On the spin I find a 90 cadence sort of a faster but still easish pace so I am interested to see if that sense of easy will allow a faster resting or non stressed cadence down the road. Last night I did 1 hour of:

10' warm up to 90rpm at 10th gear.
10x (30" fast as I could 13th gear while maintaining form /30" 90rpm rest at 10th gear)
4x (5' 100rpm /5' 90rpm rest 10th gear)

plus a VMO strengthening to help correct my knee tracking issue.
I like the FastPedal in post 2 because it gives me lots of time to calmly contemplate all the ways I'm screwing up my pedal stroke. Those 100 rpm intervals are very helpful also. When you can get out in the spring, what I found most helpful then was simply running at 94 on the flat and a few rpm higher than usual while climbing. Massed practice beats it into those ganglia.
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Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 12-21-17 at 11:58 AM.
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