Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Bicycle weight for long brevets

Reply

Old 12-25-17, 10:01 PM
  #26  
Spoonrobot 
Senior Member
 
Spoonrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,566
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
There's no excuse to go on feeling and what's in your head. Get out there with a stopwatch and figure out the difference between the two bikes. A 5 minute hill or section of rollers is enough, ride the bikes back to back or do runs with each bike and then go home and switch to the other bike. 2-3 hours invested will give you all the data you need.

I like a bike that stays at or under 28 pounds unloaded but with all accessories (pedals, cages, racks/bags, lights & fenders).

Anything over this usually points to poor choice in frame quality, wheel quality or tire quality. These are all sources of significant unnecessary weight but the latter two can be economically upgraded, often for a faster rolling and better handling ride.

But really bike weight is as important as you can afford it to be. I can't afford to buy or upgrade a bike that weighs less than around 23-25 pounds so I don't worry about it any further than that. I mean I used to work in a bike shop with riders who would bring me socks to weigh before purchase, same with triathletes and arguing about aero drag. Once you start viewing things like that as variables that are "holding you back" it's easy to lose sight of the big picture.

Good quality bike, with good tires, thoughtfully designed wheels and a good fit - the weight is almost always going to be "a good weight" because quality is never very heavy.

Assuming you're not a very large rider a Soma ES should be fairly cheap and easy to build around 22-23 pounds.

Another way to think about it; do you want to stop and dig a jacket out of a giant seatbag that looks terrible and sways back and forth as you climb? Or pull that jacket out of a front bag and put it on while riding? Stop to change batteries or just switch on a dyno? Get soaked with cold rain and dirt from the road? Stay fairly dry and much warmer? All sorts of stuff happens when you're on the road for 10+ hours.

In my own personal experience going from a fenderless racing bike on 25s and a camelback @22 pounds to a fully-loaded gravel bike on 37s @35 pounds added anywhere from 0-10 minutes per 100km ridden depending on elevation. This is not insignificant but the additional capability that came with the heavier bike expanded the types of roads I can ride and as well as the weather I can easily ride in.

Personally, I would ride a moderately light road racing bike that took 28c tires if it could be made to carry the gear I needed, and if not I'd go to an aluminum touring bike with aluminum fork and use medium weight wheels protected by fatter tires if it was really going to be tougher going.
A touring bike is the anti-thesis of a good randonneuse.
Spoonrobot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-17, 10:15 PM
  #27  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 13,636

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1189 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Flounce View Post
Thanks. I will definitely consider that. I like that Arkel Rando Rack. Which bag do you use with it?
The Arkel Tailrider bag: https://www.arkel-od.com/en/tailride...-rack-bag.html
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-17, 11:08 PM
  #28  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,898
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post

A touring bike is the anti-thesis of a good randonneuse.
How is a long wheelbase with high clearance and rack/fender mounts frameset a good randonneuse vs its antithesis? Aside from frame tubing differences, what's the difference? I'm looking at the Homer Hilson and Atlantis geometry.
Kontact is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 08:30 AM
  #29  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 18,027

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
I tend to be in the "bicycle weight doesn't matter that much" school, but I'm not going to try to tell anyone that bike weight doesn't matter. Of course it does! How important it is, well,I think we each have to figure out our priorities for ourselves.
As for me, so far, I've only DNF'ed on one brevet, a 400k a few years ago; but on a couple 200's this year I barely finished at all. My trouble on all of these has been something in the hydration/nutrition balance, coupled with riding too fast on a hot day. I know I'm riding a heavy bike, but I like my bike and I don't think it's holding me back. My priority at this point is keeping myself hydrated and fueled and knowing when I'm pushing too hard.

Before I worry about what my bike weighs, I also have to learn what I need to carry. I always finish rides with food I didn't eat, tools I didn't use, etc; those are the first pounds I should shed.

My point is, sure, bike weight matters; but I have a lot to learn before the weight of my bike reaches top priority.
rhm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 09:05 AM
  #30  
joewein
Senior Member
 
joewein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 435

Bikes: Elephant Bikes National Forest Explorer, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Flounce View Post
Will look into the tires and wheels. I'm getting the Extralite Compass Stampeded Pass 32mm, and am corresponding with a shop in oregon to get a dynamo wheel built, probably with a Son28 and H Plus Son rims, paired with Sinewave Beacon light.
The Shutter Precision range of dynamo hubs are also worth a look.

I have the centerlock version (SP PL-8) on both of my bikes. Its performance is very close to the SON products, at less than half the price. Mine have been trouble free and I have not come across a single report of any issues anywhere.
joewein is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 09:38 AM
  #31  
dim
Senior Member
 
dim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 1,639

Bikes: Giant TCR .... 1981 Koga Miyata Full Pro ... Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
I had a wheelset built, and seriously considered using a Son 28 dynamo hub. However, the new lights on the market that are USB charged was a better option IMHO ....

there is even a Chinese Cree light that costs under £10 and that runs directly from a powerbank ....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15000LM-S...19.m1438.l2649





get a decent powerbank and you will have several nights of power (I use a RavPower 32000mAh which can charge an Iphone 7 eleven times)

most of the guys that I know who ride Audax, and who are upgrading/buying new bikes, are getting gravel bikes with tubeless tyres, Apidura bags, and hydraulic disc brakes, compact crankset with 11-32 cassettes (or bigger) and their bikes look similar to these setups:




Last edited by dim; 12-26-17 at 10:06 AM.
dim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 11:10 AM
  #32  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,056

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
I'm pretty cheap, which naturally puts me in the in the "weight doesn't matter" camp so I ride heavy bikes. Out of curiosity I'll weigh my bike next spring when it's loaded up at the start of a brevet. I'm sure it will be at least 40 pounds, probably closer to 45.

I had a discussion with a guy on my last 600k about the benefits of a light randonneuring bike. He had one of those beautiful BQ'esque custom 650b's with lightweight tubing and I was riding my cheap touring bike. My argument was that I was just as fast as him on my heavy bike, and his argument was that the joy of riding a custom bike with lightweight tubing was well worth the cost to him. It was the best argument I've heard yet for spending a lot of money on a lightweight randonneuring bike.
kingston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 11:21 AM
  #33  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 16,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
comparing yourself to another rider isn't that interesting. There are a lot of people that are faster than me even when they are riding a 60 pound Oma bike. If I rode a 40 pound bike, I probably wouldn't finish some rides in time, so it's not gonna happen. I am not a weight weenie though, not by a long stretch. But I don't think my bike has weighed much over 30 pounds fully loaded, even on a ride where I expect to take 24+ hours and am packing extra food and clothes. And I hope to go lighter, both my bike and myself.
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep
unterhausen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 12:25 PM
  #34  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 18,027

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Originally Posted by dim View Post
...
there is even a Chinese Cree light that costs under £10 and that runs directly from a powerbank ....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15000LM-S...19.m1438.l2649





get a decent powerbank and you will have several nights of power (I use a RavPower 32000mAh which can charge an Iphone 7 eleven times)

...
I actually bought one of those! It certainly looks like the same thing, fits the description.

It was okay, not great. Seemed to drain the battery pack faster than it should have, but that could be the fault of the battery pack. The amount of light was good (though I don't believe the specifications stated). Light pattern was not great; too much scatter. I relegated it to use on a commuter bike that I use relatively infrequently, and it served well for a year or so. Then the mount broke, and soon after I fixed that the thing gave up its ghost.
I don't regret the purchase, but I won't be buying another one. I may disassemble the thing and try to diagnose the problem, maybe reuse the housing if the electronics are toast.
rhm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 01:09 PM
  #35  
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 831 Post(s)
For long rides I'll "wear" the bike that suits weather & road conditions best.
Wet roads & cold hours = Soma Stanyan w/ a bit of storage & full mudguards
Dry roads & challenging terrain= CF Merckx

Horses for courses, as they say.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-17, 03:45 PM
  #36  
ThermionicScott 
Hammer and tongs
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 17,138

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
The guy who won the very first Paris-Brest-Paris did it in 71 hours, on a single-speed that weighed 46 lbs, on roads that had not yet been smoothed out for cars.

So when I embarked on PBP in 2015 with a bike that weighed about 35 lbs with the water bottles full, I knew that if I didn't complete it successfully, it wouldn't be because the bike was too heavy.
__________________
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-17, 09:46 AM
  #37  
dim
Senior Member
 
dim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 1,639

Bikes: Giant TCR .... 1981 Koga Miyata Full Pro ... Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
The guy who won the very first Paris-Brest-Paris did it in 71 hours, on a single-speed that weighed 46 lbs, on roads that had not yet been smoothed out for cars.

So when I embarked on PBP in 2015 with a bike that weighed about 35 lbs with the water bottles full, I knew that if I didn't complete it successfully, it wouldn't be because the bike was too heavy.
yea .... and this is what he looked like:



but if you look like this:




a lighter bike might make the difference of finishing in time.... then your wife won't tell you to rather do gardening as you are wasting your time biking around the place
dim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 01:35 PM
  #38  
Houckster
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7

Bikes: Soma Smoothie, Litespeed Classic, Velo Orange Campeur, Soma ES

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
A very good source of information about randonneur bikes can be found a quarterly publication called Bicycle Quarterly. You can use "Bicycle Quarterly" in the URL to look over the site.
Houckster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 02:33 PM
  #39  
Chris Pringle
Senior Member
 
Chris Pringle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
Posts: 1,265

Bikes: '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
For long rides I'll "wear" the bike that suits weather & road conditions best.
Wet roads & cold hours = Soma Stanyan w/ a bit of storage & full mudguards
Dry roads & challenging terrain= CF Merckx

Horses for courses, as they say.

-Bandera
Which bike do you take on 1,200 Km randonnée that will combine all those variable conditions?
Chris Pringle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 03:11 PM
  #40  
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 831 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
Which bike do you take on 1,200 Km randonnée that will combine all those variable conditions?
Although I've never done a 1,200 Km randonnée, that not being an interest of mine, I've spent some seat-time on the bike in a variety of conditions, distances and terrain over several decades.

I prefer to ride the bike w/ fenders on solo rides if it's likely that hours will be spent of wet roads, especially if rain is inevitable and storage for rain kit is needed. If it's long miles with some dry as well I prefer to not be soaked w/ toxic road spooge and often ride the Soma if in doubt.

In dry or intermittent conditions in warm weather the CF machine gets the nod, especially if a day of long tough climbs is ahead. For pacelines and HIIT it's the Merckx, but I don't do those efforts in the rain anyway.

Having a choice works for me, although guessing wrong on weather is inevitable.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

Last edited by Bandera; 12-31-17 at 03:20 PM.
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 03:18 PM
  #41  
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,350

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes: 1968 Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Originally Posted by dim View Post
based on my own experience using several bikes....you will be faster on a light bike when riding an Audax/Randonneur. Not only will be you faster climbing hills, you will also be much faster riding into strong headwinds...
No - YOU, the poster, may be faster, but it has little or nothing significant to do with a lighter bike, so cannot be applied to others. It's especially telling that you should claim an advantage with headwinds, as that is exactly the circumstance when wind resistance would pay an even greater role than usual over inertia and rolling resistance, which are the only things affected by weight. Not only is bike weight a small proportion of the total, but weight differences exert a small impact on speed/effort. As for going uphill, what goes up must come down, and the added potential energy of a heavier load will for the most part be made up on the downhill.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please take the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!

Last edited by cny-bikeman; 12-31-17 at 03:22 PM.
cny-bikeman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 03:29 PM
  #42  
dim
Senior Member
 
dim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 1,639

Bikes: Giant TCR .... 1981 Koga Miyata Full Pro ... Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
No - YOU, the poster, may be faster, but it has little or nothing significant to do with a lighter bike, so cannot be applied to others. It's especially telling that you should claim an advantage with headwinds, as that is exactly the circumstance when wind resistance would pay an even greater role than usual over inertia and rolling resistance, which are the only things affected by weight. Not only is bike weight a small proportion of the total, but weight differences exert a small impact on speed/effort. As for going uphill, what goes up must come down, and the added potential energy of a heavier load will for the most part be made up on the downhill.
start training with a powermeter for a few months ... then switch to a light bike with the same powermeter and go an a 500 mile hilly ride, then come speak again
dim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 03:39 PM
  #43  
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,350

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes: 1968 Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Thank you for the suggestion, but I'll pass. Besides, training would have no effect at all if weight is supposed to be the variable. Go ahead and do what you suggest with a power meter. Two bikes, fitted exactly the same to the rider and with the same tires, but one significantly lighter than the other (5lbs, or even more). Measure total power output over the same course (and several runs each) at approximately the same speed and wind conditions. I doubt that you will show the amount of difference you expect. Physics, not opinion or personal experience, is what determines the effect of weight on performance/efficiency.

Better yet, save yourself time and effort, and put some figures into the calculator at: http://bikecalculator.com/what.html. I did so, and at a steady speed of 20mph on level ground a 5 lb weight difference (30 vs. 25 lbs) with no wind made a difference of .04 mph slower, or about .2%. With a 15mph headwind the difference is only .02mph. I very much doubt that you can detect a difference of less than 10 seconds in a 25 mile ride.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please take the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!

Last edited by cny-bikeman; 12-31-17 at 04:14 PM.
cny-bikeman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 06:36 PM
  #44  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,056

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
@dim, I think you might be talking about something different than everyone else. The OP was asking about a bike for an SR series, which are long rides with generous time allowances, and you're talking about a 500 mile (800k) ride as fast as you can with a power meter. I would take a different bike on a 500 mile race than an ordinary 600k too, but that wasn't the question.
kingston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-17, 07:55 PM
  #45  
twodownzero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 853

Bikes: Surly Disc Trucker, Ribble Nero Corsa

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
I'm glad you started this thread. I used to care that my bike was 35+ pounds loaded up for a brevet, but on further reflection, it doesn't matter. I still finished with hours to spare and I love the way my bike fits. Weight does not matter.
twodownzero is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Terms of Service