Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Randonneuring (image)

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Old 01-05-18, 08:15 PM
  #26  
unterhausen
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Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
I think some of that is regional. I gather that some people feel obligated to get a classic "rando" bike, but riders around here, not so much. And if it helps any, the riders that I know that do the most riding are the least concerned about meeting somebody else's expectation of image.
some people get that idea somewhere and then we tell them to ride the bike they have. Traditional rando bikes are not the norm anywhere in the U.S. as far as I can tell. They exist because they work pretty well for long distance. I'm pretty sure they aren't the norm even in Seattle, where BQ is headquartered.

I remember riding into a control on a 1200k, and the randos were arrayed in front of the stores like a batch of refugees. They didn't think it was funny when I pointed that out. Or maybe they didn't have the energy to laugh, that's possible. Randos are famous for sleeping on picnic tables and park benches. Sometimes on the floor of convenience stores or Post Offices. In France, I slept in a couple of ditches, behind a hedgerow, and leaning up against a building. I used to have a copy of a picture of a batch of randonneurs sleeping on the floor of a bathroom in a park. These are not people that worry about their image. Mostly they are worried about where they are going to eat next.

One thing is true, randonneurs do tend to wear wool jerseys more often than other cyclists. This is because it stinks less after you have been wearing it for 24 hours. Plastic jerseys are just horrible for that.
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Old 01-05-18, 08:19 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Are you asking an actual or merely rhetorical question.
I was asking because I was seriously straight up confused.

I stilll am confused actually because some people, portray randonneuring as one thing, yet you portray it as something completely different.

So thank you, now I know it can be done however someone wants to do it. When I started this thread I was wondering if There was a Specific "Look" aka Image someone needed to stay within, to be considered Randonneuring.
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Old 01-05-18, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I wouldn't know from a Google search. And apparently asking questions seems to ruffle feathers. why?

So if Randonneuring isn't what google says it is, what exactly is Randonneuring?

I mean is it that hard to Explain?

btw, I circled the leather bags for you.
Yes if you ask google for pictures of randonneur bike, you will get pictures of traditional randonneuring bikes. If you ask google for pictures of randonneurs, you will get a batch of pictures where you can't see anything because of reflective gear. But if you could see them and their bikes, you would see that google led you astray.

Randonneuring is about riding long distance. You seem to have gained prejudices through lack of exposure to randonneuring, and yes, that is annoying. We don't know where you got these ideas. Google is going to mislead you. There are years of threads in here. Please feel free to read and see how many of them are about image.
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Old 01-05-18, 08:36 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by MikeGodwin View Post
Google is going to mislead you. There are years of threads in here. Please feel free to read and see how many of them are about image.
Oddly enough in this very BF Sub-forum there is a Sticky thread entirely dedicated to pics of the machines actually used for Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling with over 1,000 posts going back >10 years.

That is what I call an extraordinary coincidence.

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Old 01-05-18, 08:36 PM
  #30  
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I mean Road cyclist will flip a twig if someone isn't wearing the correct length of socks. Enduro riders flip a twig is someone shows up on an unduro bike wearing XC lycra.

When I google searched Ranonneuring I get mostly vintage type stuff. I stumbled upon the "Masi Speciale Randonneur" in my quest of looking up Roadplus , WTB Horizon. The comments against Ultegra modern cranks was in this forum. So it was 100% natural to wonder if Randonneuring wasn't any different that other areas in cycling. Road cycling sock length *cough cough*

Me I really don't care, I MTB in my road helment, I MTB in a T shirt. I wear No see socks when I road cycle. sometimes its a race cut jersey, sometimes its club cut, sometime I am street cloths and no helmet when I ride my hybrid. or street cloths and helmet when on SS road bike. screw cliches, screw fads,

but I seriously was confussed, and i seriously did want to know what randonneuring was.

I mean I know what charity rides are, I know what fondos are, I know what RAAM is, I know what touring is, I know what Indian Pacific Wheel Race is.
Randonneuring was confusing. I thought maybe it was an reliving an ERA thing. my bad if my question wasn't understandable. Touchy lot some of you are. :'(
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Old 01-05-18, 08:41 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I stilll am confused actually because some people, portray randonneuring as one thing, yet you portray it as something completely different.
google says one thing, randonneurs in this thread say it's about riding long distance. Go read the wikipedia page about randonneuring. Almost all of it is about the rides and rules, none about image.

There are about 2000 active randonneurs in the U.S. Not very many.
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Old 01-05-18, 08:43 PM
  #32  
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Rare to see such a thread that so clearly illustrates learning about something from the internet versus going outside and seeing it oneself.
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Old 01-05-18, 08:49 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
Rare to see such a thread that so clearly illustrates learning about something from the internet versus going outside and seeing it oneself.
the one local guy into the randonneuring thing it is totally in the ERA bandcamp and compass tires, leather bags, leather shoes. Which fits the "ERA image"

The internet is a very powerful Learning tool. As long as it isn't tools dropping snide comments, instead of adding anything productive to the conversation.
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Old 01-05-18, 08:57 PM
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here is the simplest way I can answer because "randonneuring is about riding long distance" apparently hasn't been good enough.

Randonneuring involves riding on randonnees (often called brevets, which is the card)
The most common rides are:
200 km
300 km
400km
600 km
1000 km
1200km
Other lengths are possible. There is also a 24 hour team event called a fleche which must cover at least 360 km. This has rules that nobody understands. It's a French sport, after all.
These rides are timed. Riders must have their card validated at designated stops to prove they rode the route. Generally, missing the time at intermediate stops means disqualification, with some exceptions for extenuating circumstances. Same for the overall time.
As far as equipment goes, as long as its a pedal bike, it's ok. There was a 5 rider tandem on PBP, I thought that was crazy. Someone finished PBP one year on a kick bike, and the organizers didn't like it so no more kick bikes.

You will find randonneurs that think Paris-Brest-Paris is the ultimate goal of randonneuring. It is a 1200km ride that must be completed in under 90 hours. There are many other 1200km randonnees now, so PBP is not quite the ultimate goal that it used to be.
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Old 01-05-18, 09:08 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I was just curious is all. it seems Randonneuring all have the pizza rack thing going on front and rear with 2 square bags one up front and one in the back with 70's looking bikes.
Really? Where did you see this??

I don't think I've ever seen a randonneur turn up to an event looking like that ... it would be counterproductive.


Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I'd call wearing wool knickers reenactment, along with the use of square bags trimmed in leather on pizza racks. and Using era specific bikes and era looking head lamps reenactment. It also comes across as projecting an image of how they wish people to see them.

but this is why I asked the Question, I wasn't sure if that was a minority, or majority.

You've gone to the wrong event!! That's not a randonneuring event at all. Down here in mid-Feb there will be a Penny-farthing event where you'll see people dressed like that ... but that's not randonneuring.


Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Is Randonneuring about being vintage?

Can a person Randonneur on a Ultra cycling setup with a Carbon bike?
No, it is not about being vintage.

Yes, a person can do the events unterhausen describes above on any bicycle-like vehicle. The bicycle I've been using lately is titanium.

Last edited by Machka; 01-05-18 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 01-05-18, 09:12 PM
  #36  
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Photos of randonneurs and their bicycles after a 1000K: https://www.minnesotarandonneurs.org...ble-1000k.html

Lots of variety!
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Old 01-05-18, 09:13 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
the one local guy into the randonneuring thing it is totally in the ERA bandcamp and compass tires, leather bags, leather shoes. Which fits the "ERA image" .
what is the "era image?" Are you sure this person is a randonneur? Or is he just going for the image? Most decent cycling shoes have a certain amount of leather, are you saying he rides in leather dress shoes? The shoes I usually wear have all-leather uppers, but they are mountain bike shoes. I would say most randonneurs ride in lycra shorts/tights as the weather would suggest. Wool knickers with knee socks are somewhat rare, but not unheard-of. Some randonneurs ride with regular shorts over the lycra. Well, that's on them. There is nothing like the dress code amongst racers, that is really strict. In fact, randonneurs have no dress code as long as your outfit is legal in the jurisdictions you ride in. Plus helmet and reflective gear.
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Old 01-05-18, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
but I seriously was confussed, and i seriously did want to know what randonneuring was.

I mean I know what charity rides are, I know what fondos are, I know what RAAM is, I know what touring is, I know what Indian Pacific Wheel Race is.
Randonneuring was confusing. I thought maybe it was an reliving an ERA thing. my bad if my question wasn't understandable. Touchy lot some of you are. :'(
Randonneuring is timed, ultra-distance cycling. unterhausen describes it in more detail, but what he doesn't describe is the time limit. And all these time limits include all breaks for eating, using the toilet, sleeping, etc.

200 km - 13.5 hours
300 km - 20 hours
400km - 27 hours
600 km - 40 hours
1000 km - 70 hours (I think ... could be mistaken on this one, it has been a while since I have done one)
1200km - 90 hours


Randonneurs do need to carry some bags, and sure, some of us prefer what might appear to be an older style bag, but that's usually because we've tried a number of different options and have decided to go with what works. So I usually use a Carradice Pendle on the rear and a modern MEC handlebar bag on the front of my titanium bicycle. They are sufficient to carry what I need over a 400 km ride.

What I wear has also gone through a trial-and-error process and I've ended up with a kit that is similar to what a road racer might wear ... except that my rain jacket is heavier. It is designed to protect me in a multi-hour downpour.

Function and comfort are the critical things for me on these long rides ... and believe me, especially by the end of the ride, how I look is the least of my worries! And I'm pretty sure I both look and smell pretty rough.

So ... image = no. Getting through the challenge = yes.
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Old 01-05-18, 09:39 PM
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All that said, if you go to an event like the local century which attracts a wide variety of cyclists, you can usually pick the randonneurs out of the crowd.

They're often the ones with the comfortable, functional, well-worn setups. Each one might have a different setup on a different style of bicycle, but there's a sense that this person has covered a whole lot of kilometres with that setup and is self-sufficiently ready to tackle whatever the ride may throw their way.
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Old 01-05-18, 11:10 PM
  #40  
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OP,

You are a riot. You seem to insist that your impression from internet research can be used to rebut the consensus response of people who actually ride brevets who are telling you, “no, randonneuring is not defined by those aesthetics of a particular subset of riders that you are referencing.”

Seeing is believing : if you don’t believe us, go sign up and ride a 200km brevet and see what the bikes and their riders look like. In my area , many ride carbon bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse, trek domane. Others ride lightweight steel. The point is to ride long distance in a self-supported way, enjoy the scenery, taking pride in your accomplishments and, yes. how utilitarian your gear. The aesthetics of your bike is a small part of it for most. We fantasize about riding 1200km in under 90 hours, not about the bike we ride while doing it.
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Old 01-05-18, 11:20 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
how much of Randonneuring is about image?
It's not.

I am getting the feelings that sometimes the only difference between Randonneuring and say the other same things is all in image. as in No carbon allowed in Randonneuring, that carbon thing would be endurance riding, or Ultracycling.

As in Like a 4 arm spider ring of a New Ultegra crank is a no no to some people in the Randonneuring circle.
Wrong.

This is why I am asking if Randonneuring is about an image portrayed.
Nope.
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Old 01-05-18, 11:56 PM
  #42  
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We see more variety in bikes and bags and clothes in Randonneuring events than in the local club rides or shop rides.

So, thats a no to your Question (with a capital Q) I guess.
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Old 01-06-18, 12:00 AM
  #43  
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I've done quite a bit of observing. The vast majority are running ordinary road bikes of whatever vintage, whatever they ordinarily show up on for road rides.

There's also small minority of what I might call BF randos. They're read all about it, visited the forums, and put something together that looks like that: steel, Brooks, front and rear racks, bar bag with that French tubing thing, hub lighting, wide wheels and wide tires with tread. They walk the steep ones. And c'mon folks, there's a heckuva lot of that kind of content on this forum.

There's another small minority of really strong, really experienced riders like what's pictured in BQ, who do the whole custom French thing and ride the heck out of those rigs. I doubt they're any faster or any more comfortable than they'd be on an ordinary road bike, but they can move those bikes just fine and want that look. They can explain for hours how every little thing on that bike was designed to make their rando experience better.

So I was on a 200k one time and after spending about an hour at a control trying to thaw my feet after riding with no booties in an unexpected sleet storm, I came up on a paceline. I sat in for a while, until the weird pacing started to bug me. I wanted to get up the road, so I went up front to have a look. Pulling the whole line was a 20-something guy in loose wool knickers and knee socks, pedaling a fixie with flats. He had homemade plastic fenders, Brooks, bar bag, everything. Helmet though, instead of a newsboy cap. So there it was, everything good, right? Except he said he had to walk the steep hills. Anyway, he was styling, for sure.

For my part, that was the last time I made firm clothing choices from a weather forecast.
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Old 01-06-18, 01:03 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
how much of Randonneuring is about image?

The style of bags, leather bags, leather seats gumwall/skinwalls, Steel frames, geometry, etc.....

I am getting the feelings that sometimes the only difference between Randonneuring and say the other same things is all in image. as in No carbon allowed in Randonneuring, that carbon thing would be endurance riding, or Ultracycling.

As in Like a 4 arm spider ring of a New Ultegra crank is a no no to some people in the Randonneuring circle.

This is why I am asking if Randonneuring is about an image portrayed.
Randonneuring is about completing a specific endurance route on a bicycle within certain timing restrictions.

The word "randonneuring" is associated with a certain "look" because that's what a lot of randonneuring bikes looked like during a well-remembered period's of the sport's popularity. Google searches aren't a bad research method, you just have to understand how they work and what kinds of things can influence the results. There are many subjects where a google image search will offer primarily how something looked at some periods in the past, rather than typical modern examples of what the entered phrase would refer to.
For example, I would bet that the current Hellenic Army is not equipping all of its members with spears and bronze shields, regardless of what comes up if you type "Greek soldier" into an image search.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
What separates randonneurs from endurance cyclist?
Nothing. Randonneurs are endurance cyclists who engage in randonneuring.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I'd call wearing wool knickers reenactment
Wool isn't a bad material for endurance clothing. It's decently well-behaved across a wide range of weather conditions, and fairly resilient to getting stinky.

Not very many endurance cyclists use knickers. Of those that do, to my understanding it's usually for reasons of modesty, i.e. not wanting to be in skin-tight lycra if you stop to eat in a sit-down restaurant in the middle of an adventure.

along with the use of square bags trimmed in leather on pizza racks.
When front racks are used to support a bag on a randonnering bike, they're actually frequently pretty narrow, not wide like a "porteur" rack or something that you might be able to stabilize a pizza on. Although it's technically possible to use a wider rack to make up for a bag's base being floppy, the main reason to use a rack in the first place is so that the bag is being held by a well-triangulated support, rather than cantilevered off the stem or handlebars. It's a reasonable solution if you want to hold the bag both stiffly and out in front of your handlebars.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
The comments against Ultegra modern cranks was in this forum.
The comments against the aesthetics of Ultegra cranks weren't because you can't have a reasonable randonneuring bike with modern cranks, but because their styling was inconsistent with the rest of the bike.

The reverse is a thing, too. I love the appearance of my vintage Sugino Mighty Tour triple cranks, sitting on my 1970s Fuji America. That same crank would look absolutely awful on my Emonda.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Bicycle quarterly was an interesting google search.

So Randonneuring. It's kinda like using hand saws and axes to get fire wood instead of using chain saws and log splitters.

IT is totally about IMAGE, and reenactment. reliving the past, including riding clothing. thanks for the help
The "BQ approved" comment was in jest.

But even BQ themselves aren't really reenactors in a first and foremost sense. Their bikes are the way they are because they think they're good designs.

Last edited by HTupolev; 01-06-18 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 01-06-18, 02:02 AM
  #45  
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Just a useless piece of trivia -- the first time I learnt about randonneuring, and PBP, wasn't from the Internet, but from the anime Long Riders (not to be confused with the western movie The Long Riders).
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Old 01-06-18, 04:22 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I wouldn't know from a Google search. And apparently asking questions seems to ruffle feathers. why?

So if Randonneuring isn't what google says it is, what exactly is Randonneuring?

I mean is it that hard to Explain?

btw, I circled the leather bags for you.
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
is Google prejudice, or factual?

does Randoneuring have subcategories? vintage/modern?
Google actually DOES have a bias that is little discussed. They are a business that makes money... a lot of money.

They have an excellent easy to use search engine, and thus it is popular. But you also have to understand its natural limitations.

  1. Commercial interests and product placement. Most people terminate their searches with one or two pages of searches. So, companies will pay to get their pages to the top of the list. Some are marked as advertisements, but not necessarily all. I, in fact, frequently use the "images" for product searches as it is often the quickest way to search for something of interest.
  2. Click bias. Put in the search term "Randonneur Bike", and Google will learn what you click on, and others click on. This likely creates stereotypical responses, for better or worse. But, I also wonder if it induces systematic errors too. I often click on images to blow them up, or because it is curious to me, but doing so may teach Google the wrong image responses.

I presume a map pocket has benefits for Randonneur events, but perhaps that is being replaced with electronic devices today. Still, there is a benefit of having hardcopy maps that never lose a battery. Anyway, a map pocket may encourage some people to choose boxy front bags.
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Old 01-06-18, 08:49 AM
  #47  
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There are definitely people that are reenactors that have a traditional randonneuring bike and don't ride randonneuring events. Hey, that's great, have fun. But most randonneurs that have a traditional randonneuring bike think that it's the best bike for the job. They probably would use a carbon version if anyone bothered to make one like it. But who is going to invest in that for some small fraction of 2000 people?

when I started using the traditional randonneuring bag this year, it really improved my riding. Before that, I would put off doing things like eating, putting on sunscreen, putting on more chamois cream, etc because it would take too long to retrieve whatever I needed from my seat bag. Now I can ride without anything in my jersey pockets, which is really nice, and everything is easily available. And when BQ did a wind tunnel test, that front bag doesn't increase wind resistance. The map pocket is less than fully successful, but using a cue sheet holder would probably limit access to much, and the map pocket does work. And I don't miss the cue sheet holder at all. I mostly use my gps, but I like to follow along on the cue sheet to limit the impact when the gps inevitably goes wonky.
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Old 01-06-18, 08:58 AM
  #48  
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To the OP: I guess you've spent more time on Google image searches than at an actual randonneuring event. If you had ever ridden a brevet, most likely you would have noticed a great diversity in what people ride.

As others have pointed out, you'll probably find more diversity of bikes and other equipment at a randonneuring event than at a bike race or typical club ride. People in our sport ride what works for them and others are cool with that.

Yes, I see some period-looking steel bikes bikes with downtube shifters and leather bags at events, but they're a small minority. I've seen everything from a BD-1 folding bike to a Surly Fat Bike at 200 and 300 km brevets, but carbon and aluminium road bikes are the majority. I've done my brevets on a Bike Friday folding bike and on a Elephant Bikes adventure bike. Some of us use mudguards, others don't. Some of us wear lycra, some wear wool, some even wear jeans.
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Old 01-06-18, 09:27 AM
  #49  
MikeGodwin
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I think google is telling us that randonneuring-style bikes (randonneuse) are far more popular than the sport of randonneuring. I imagine that Bike Quarterly (and their associated bike company, Compass Cycles) would go out of business if they had to rely on randonneurs as their only clientele. It's a very practical style of bike and it's good for a lot of rides that have nothing to do with the sport of randonneuring. I imagine there are some people riding around on their randonneuse thinking they will ride PBP someday, just get that first 200k under their belt. Next year, probably. To those people I say "there is a 200k next weekend, not time like the present"
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Old 01-06-18, 09:36 AM
  #50  
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Since The 41 has been so over-fished by faux 'explain-it-to-me' trolling this sub-forum is a fresh pond for the disingenuous to cast a line in to get a rise from an intentionally disrespectful, dismissive, obtuse and pedantic posting tone.
A small dedicated cadre of actual LD riders used to calmly and patiently explaining the physical, mental, tactical and technical aspects of their sport with those new to it are more easily gulled than the "once bitten twice shy" wary members of more frequently trolled sub-forums.

Kudos to all who spent time & typing in your thoughtful, factual and restrained responses.

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Last edited by Bandera; 01-06-18 at 10:42 AM.
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