Machka 

When I rode it, you only got to pick 84 or 90 hour start times. The 90 hour start time was 10 pm, as I recall. You and 4000 of your best friends all turn up at 9 pm or so, and eventually get shuttled through a passageway into the oval, then around the oval, and finally out the gate on the other end and on your way.

They'd push 500-ish people through the gate and onto the road, then close the gate for 15 min before pushing the next 500 people through.

Both times, I ended up on the back of my group of 500 people, which suited me just fine. Loudeac on the way out was the only place where I encountered "the bulge".

ThermionicScott 

Worth remembering!

skiffrun

I have read reports dating from before the creation of LSAH that people would stop just short of finishing in order to get a big time. So, it is now likely that some are waiting in order to qualify for LSAH, but some are getting in "honestly" (as Eric has referred to it).

Ian's 2011 qualifying time of 88H55 is a bit funky (see the bottom of this blog post). Ian was caught off guard by the electronic timing when one passed through the gate, he waited, and then had to plead for the ACP / PBP official to write 88h55 on his card. Ian then convinced the Cap'n to accept the time on the card -- I doubt the latter took much convincing.

The 2015 qualifying time was more "honest" (to again go with Eric's term). He was going for a Charlie Miller time, but when he got to Brest, he knew he couldn't make it back within the Charlie Miller time limit, so he took a long sleep and ... quite a few North Carolinians (and honorary / adopted North Carolinians) coalesced to do the second half of the ride at "party pace."

Btw, there were at least two (that I can think of off the top of my head) that couldn't take the "party pace" any longer and rode ahead and finished too fast to qualify for LSAH. There were also some that either rode ahead of the "party" but managed to qualify. And some that the "party" never quite caught up to and have times a bit faster than the 89h36 which figures prominently in the 2015 finish times on the LSAH website.

unterhausen

They started trying to enforce assigned start times in 2011, but the gymnasium setup didn't really allow them to do that. I hear that in 2015, they did a good job of enforcing start times. And they start letting people go at 4, I think. Everyone is gone by 9. One advantage to this is that you know when you started a lot better. I was totally confused the whole ride about control closing times. This is the main issue that I want to sort out before I ride again. I would have been a lot better off had I gotten more sleep the first two sleep stops.


I am not sure I would want to start after everyone, but I suppose it depends on how you feel about riding in large packs of people. One thing for sure, taking food with you for the first 140km is essential, because there is no place to stop. I got to Mortagne after they ran out of ham sandwiches, so I had to wait in line at the cafeteria. I wasted a lot of time looking for sandwiches and also I had forgotten it wasn't actually a control. I was severely bonked by that point. Then I ate too much. I was behind the bulge for most of the ride, I don't think it helped much. In front of the bulge is the place to be. In the back, you are riding with the zombies, especially on the way back.

I think aiming for LSAH is not necessarily a great idea for a first timer. Best to get done a little early. Although it seems like there are plenty of cafes on the run in to Paris to waste time in if it comes to that. The thing I got from AH's writeup was a mild sense of panic about not finishing. I know I felt that way after Dreux on the return. The control was abandoned by the time I got there. I prefer to avoid that. Fortunately it's pretty flat on the road from there to SQY, and I was feeling pretty good.

iTrod

It seems that Loudéac is nearly everyone's preferred stop for the first overnight. I suspect facilities there will be overrun unless you are at the very front of the pack. Would it make more sense to sleep after 224 miles at Tinteniac? Or suffer through to Carhaix at 327 miles (unlikely for me, unless I can reach it within 28 hours)? Crowd avoidance is key for reducing unwanted energy expenditure.

antimonysarah

That's what I'd heard -- also, since my husband will be coming along and not riding, I'll have a hotel somewhere -- starting on the early side would mean Loudeac would be early in the evening for stopping, but I might still do that? Not sure. It'd still be about the right distance for day 2 to out-and-back from Loudeac to Brest. Assuming I can still get a room, of course; everything may already be booked?

I won't be able to stay ahead of the bulge, and I won't intentionally be aiming for Adrian Hands time, but it's not unlikely that I'll earn it.

iTrod -- I think there's a fairly new (like started in 2011 or 2015) non-control sleep stop between Loudeac and Carhaix for precisely that reason?

unterhausen

I thought it was a pretty easy ride from Loudeac to St Nicholas du Pelem, which was new in 2011. It's 44km. Then again, I slept, showered and ate in Loudeac, so I was in good shape. There are definitely some hills west of Loudeac.

I do think that if you feel good, sleeping there or in Carhaix is a good idea. I think the smart people often went to Carhaix before St. Nick was established. I heard an ancien counselling someone to do that. Only problem is drop bags go to Loudeac.

But this is how I know Steve doesn't read my posts I have looked at this list many times PBP Controls

Machka 

I'll also add this ... plan. Plans are good. And it is especially good to have a rough idea when you want to arrive at each control. But on an event like the PBP, half your plans can go right out the window.

rhm

Having must done the LOL with a 7:30 PM start time, I strongly recommend that anyone contemplating an evening start PBP try an evening start brevet of 600k or more before PBP.

The evening start means you can knock out a lot of distance before your first stop, easing the pressure later in the ride. On LOL I went about 480 km on the first "day" (7:30 PM to 9:00 PM) and though it was difficult it was perfectly doable. I would do this again. Other riders found the evening start more difficult. (Any comment, @gazer?)

antimonysarah

Agreed -- even though I DNF'ed at 245 miles, the night start was not a problem, and I was never sleepy. I would have built up a decent cushion if things had been going OK, though I probably wouldn't have gotten the full three hours of sleep I was hoping for. I thought it was going to be one of the hardest things; it wasn't for me.

Also, to anyone for whom it's close enough, if you want to try a night-start 200k, I'm organizing one on August 11th in Boston. Not quite the same, although there's at least one 200k permanent leaving from the start location so you *could* keep going...

unterhausen

PA randonneurs is holding a night start 200k on the 19th. I wasn't super impressed with the idea of that ride 10 days before Mac 'n' Cheese, but I'm going to ride it anyway.

I'm still not convinced that practicing night starts is worth it. Ride a 400k slowly enough and you'll get the same effect. I think I have done that enough times to know what it's like. Nothing beats the second sunrise, I always say.

voyager1

rhm

My recommendation, that PBP-curious riders do a long brevet with a night start, has little to do with riding at night. I assume we've all ridden at night. I found the evening start to be something more.

The thing about the evening start is not that you ride all night long, but rather that you ride all day long after you've ridden all night long, after very possibly not having slept well the night before, and having failed to nap during the day. The evening start means a heavy dose of sleep deprivation right from the start, sleep deprivation that is going to catch up with you differently, depending on when your day started.

Compared to flèches and 400k's, I found the 300 mile day, starting just before sunset, to be a very different experience.

unterhausen

Does being slow count as "practice"? I like riding at night. I am reluctant go out and do it on purpose. I get to do enough night riding during the normal course of randonneuring that I don't feel the need to go out and do any more. I think the two things I have learned is that most people feel like they are always riding uphill and also that they are riding faster than they really are. It's best to count on going slower at night. It's also really useful to be sure your lights will work for a long time. That was the big mistake of my first year of randonneuring.

Rudi, I see your point. I know people have run 600k's that started at night. Other than a 1000k or 1200k, I'm not sure where people will get practice. That part of PBP went fine for me. However, I had been randoing for 3 years and ridden through the night many times by then. I would say that anyone that has a chance to ride a grand randonnee before PBP is well advised to do so.

clasher

I did a flèche this year with a 6pm start and riding all night and into the next day was really tough for me... same deal; didn't sleep well the night before, couldn't nap during the day. I really wish I was a faster ride and could do the 84 hour with confidence I'd finish in time. I suppose a more regimented training program is the only answer for me.

Machka 

Yes.

rhm

In my previous remarks on this subject I think I failed to explain why I like the evening start.

The evening start arranges your schedule so you finish your day of riding just as it's getting dark. That's exactly when I most want to quit anyway. That's when I want my dinner, and a beer or two. The evening start meant going to bed at a "normal" time, which was a great advantage for me.

Aside from the bedtime issue, I dislike riding in evening traffic. I don't want to generalize too much, least I sounds like an anti-car nut, but in the evening there is more traffic, and a greater tendency for some drivers to think cyclists don't belong on the roads. I disagree, but I'm not interested in the argument. If I quit riding at dusk, i avoid all that. I can be asleep by 11:00 PM and on my bike again by 2:30 AM, when there is much less traffic.

I don't know whether these arguments are directly applicable to PBP. But this was part of what I liked about the LOL last month.

antimonysarah

Any rumors as to what other 1200ks in the US or Canada will be run next year? I'm dithering about continuing to aim for PBP vs something closer to home (and with less time-eating controls).

unterhausen

This fits my PBP fairly well, at least the first 24 hours. Got into Loudeac at dusk, left at 3, got back to Loudeac after dark, left at 3, got into Mortagne-au-Perche after dark, left at 3. There was an extended ditch nap that caused me to get into Loudeac after dark the second time. I regretted that a little, riding at night is definitely slower. OTOH, there is was no problem with traffic. Trying to remember if there was a good reason I got into Mortagne-au-Perche after dark. I remember riding in to Villaines a little before dusk. I didn't eat enough between Villaines and Mortagne, so I was a little slow. Also started to have visual illusions of going under bridges. A lot of that section is a false flat uphill.

Traffic on PBP is nothing like a 1200k here, where you enevitably end up on a road you don't want to be on. The French motorists give plenty of room and no attitude. The one thing about French traffic is that it takes a while to realize that all the nice cars passing you are Peugeots (I know that logo, what is it?).

I would say the worst traffic I experienced was going into Dreux on Friday morning. For one thing I was so tired I couldn't really ride straight. But morning rush hour into Paris is pretty bad Two lane road with people driving really fast is never pleasant. I was so scared I took a ditch nap, which was wonderful and I don't regret it a bit. Although I probably missed the closing time in Dreux and I was maybe 2 miles out of town where I napped. A lot of this is my fault because I should have gotten a cot and slept longer in Mortagne. I was really confused about control times, and I would have been fine to sleep for 6 hours there. I made very little progress when I left that control, even after sleeping 3 hours on the cafeteria floor. I really need to figure out a better way of keeping track of control times.

I think the morning traffic was not pleasant except for the first morning. The second morning riding out of Carhaix up the back side of le roc'h on the national highway in the fog was no fun. There wasn't a huge amount of traffic, but it's a lot harder to deal with it in the fog and uphill. Riding the last bit into Brest at the port is a bit crazy. Lots of traffic going out of town too, but it's all stopped at traffic lights, so not particularly hard to navigate through.

atwl77

I have an upcoming 1000k next month that has an 8pm start. First time we're seeing a night start here. Guess that's going to be a good PBP-like experience. And actually, thinking back at all the tough, hilly routes we've been doing this year, some of my group have been speculating our organizer is secretly preparing us for PBP via tough love method.

gazer

Agree with @rhm, a night start is perfectly doable, and brings some advantage of pushing you to bank time before that next overnight. If you're planning on a night start for a big event, as I am, I do recommend experiencing it beforehand. It may just reassure you that it's not that huge of a deal. With a catnap or two on that first full day, it was fine. I didn't experience real tiredness until arriving at the 2nd overnight.

That said, I'd prefer to start in the morning in general!

Having a route that was extremely calm in terms of vehicular traffic (I daresay nonexistent) was a huge help.

iTrod

It was announced a few days ago that the start is being moved for logistics. The new venue is la Bergerie Nationale, a farm located on the Château de Rambouillet estate. I wonder if they will shorten the route to 1200K as this starting point is closer to Brest. I am looking forward to seeing the new route!

Rambouillet appears to be a short train trip from Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines and Versailles for those of us who already made accommodations near the Vélodrome National. I am not sure whether you can bring assembled bikes on the train. If not, I worked out a 16.5 mile bike route from the house I am renting in Montigny-le-Bretonneux to the start. So much for planning ahead!

iTrod

Do folks set their GPS computers to km or miles when riding PBP?

rhm

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I haven't done PBP so what do I know, but I can't think of any reason to set the GPS to miles. The road signs will all be in km. Thinking in km isn't that difficult.

Mark W