Too Early to Think About PBP?
08-21-18, 09:40 PM
#51
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the cue sheet is really obscure and hard to understand. Okay, impossible. I don't think I ever saw anyone consulting the cue sheet. Unless you are really far back in the pack, and someone stole them, there will be arrow signs. Since it is basically out and back, there are outbound arrows and return arrows. And you will almost always be following other riders. I think I might have seen a distance sign once or twice, but they are not that useful.
I didn't use a gps in 2011, but I don't see any reason to worry about units.
I feel like you can find a copy of a past cue sheet online and see what I mean. I'll see if they emailed me one.
Probably the best thing to do is try to get someone's pacing spreadsheet and figure out a schedule. There are a batch of them around, Nick Bull does one.
I didn't use a gps in 2011, but I don't see any reason to worry about units.
I feel like you can find a copy of a past cue sheet online and see what I mean. I'll see if they emailed me one.
Probably the best thing to do is try to get someone's pacing spreadsheet and figure out a schedule. There are a batch of them around, Nick Bull does one.
08-22-18, 05:15 AM
#52
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I think a lot of really smart PBP riders tape a sheet to their top tube with target times for each control, and possibly control closing times. This should work if ACP gets everyone on the road at their assigned time. You could add distance in the units of your choosing, but you might have to get a bigger top tube.
08-22-18, 10:30 AM
#53
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I converted my current mileage for the year into km, switched my computer to km to jibe with signs and the cue sheet, then converted it all back to miles at the end.
In practice, I mostly followed whomever was in front of me, as well as the signs with arrows on them. Thank goodness I didn't need to stop and use my cue sheet much, because I couldn't brain after about a day.
Like @unterhausen alludes to, I mostly consulted the cue sheet for closing times, and successfully stayed about 2 hours ahead of the closing time most of the way through.
In practice, I mostly followed whomever was in front of me, as well as the signs with arrows on them. Thank goodness I didn't need to stop and use my cue sheet much, because I couldn't brain after about a day.
Like @unterhausen alludes to, I mostly consulted the cue sheet for closing times, and successfully stayed about 2 hours ahead of the closing time most of the way through.
08-23-18, 07:08 AM
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I think I looked at the cue sheet for closing times too, but they are listed relative to your start time, so you have to do math every time. I think addition modulo 24 would be tough for me on most days, but that amount of math was too much for me and I was totally confused about closing times the whole ride. The fact that I had only a vague idea when I started didn't help.
Assuming I go back next year, this is the main issue I want to address. I had very minor trouble with navigation once, resulting in a trip down the wrong road off of a roundabout. I think my bonus distance was about 50 feet. I was a little worried about being lost a couple of times, but I was always on route when that happened. A gps showing a map would have made me feel more comfortable, that's for sure. But I don't think it's realistic that most of riders will use anything other than the arrows.
Assuming I go back next year, this is the main issue I want to address. I had very minor trouble with navigation once, resulting in a trip down the wrong road off of a roundabout. I think my bonus distance was about 50 feet. I was a little worried about being lost a couple of times, but I was always on route when that happened. A gps showing a map would have made me feel more comfortable, that's for sure. But I don't think it's realistic that most of riders will use anything other than the arrows.
08-23-18, 08:12 PM
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I think the main logistics issues I learned in finishing PBP four times are:
- there are almost always lines at the controls for food. Plan on 30-45 minutes per control if you use them, minimum. I have averaged about 45 minutes at each one despite only riding in very small groups and really trying to stay focused. The food is generally good.
- there are a very few small stores or shops on the course, but if you see one it’s a nice way to save some time. Watch for bikes stopped by shops, bakeries, or bars.
- if you wait to sleep until late there aren’t many openings in the control sleep areas. You can wait a long time in line to sleep or you can sleep in a corner of the cafeteria—it’s better to be lucky and get a place in a sleep area but it doesn’t always work out,
- Brest is generally disorganized and slow
- if you get a hotel room reservation you usually will have a room when you stop there, but you may get there early and not be ready to sleep
- the bathrooms may be out of toilet paper. I hope they’ve retired the last of the squat toilets.
- French ideas of modesty are different—don’t look. One year the shower at a control was a volunteer with a hose and a bucket, with a short naked line waiting in an open courtyard, but I only saw this on my first PBP. Also, the more miles into the ride the wetter it is at the edge of the road rather than in the bushes.
- people are very nice. If you see kids giving out water bottles be grateful, but don’t throw down the bottle since it might get dirty and they’re probably just refilling them so hand it back to them.
Mark W
- there are almost always lines at the controls for food. Plan on 30-45 minutes per control if you use them, minimum. I have averaged about 45 minutes at each one despite only riding in very small groups and really trying to stay focused. The food is generally good.
- there are a very few small stores or shops on the course, but if you see one it’s a nice way to save some time. Watch for bikes stopped by shops, bakeries, or bars.
- if you wait to sleep until late there aren’t many openings in the control sleep areas. You can wait a long time in line to sleep or you can sleep in a corner of the cafeteria—it’s better to be lucky and get a place in a sleep area but it doesn’t always work out,
- Brest is generally disorganized and slow
- if you get a hotel room reservation you usually will have a room when you stop there, but you may get there early and not be ready to sleep
- the bathrooms may be out of toilet paper. I hope they’ve retired the last of the squat toilets.
- French ideas of modesty are different—don’t look. One year the shower at a control was a volunteer with a hose and a bucket, with a short naked line waiting in an open courtyard, but I only saw this on my first PBP. Also, the more miles into the ride the wetter it is at the edge of the road rather than in the bushes.
- people are very nice. If you see kids giving out water bottles be grateful, but don’t throw down the bottle since it might get dirty and they’re probably just refilling them so hand it back to them.
Mark W
08-23-18, 10:38 PM
#56
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I think I looked at the cue sheet for closing times too, but they are listed relative to your start time, so you have to do math every time. I think addition modulo 24 would be tough for me on most days, but that amount of math was too much for me and I was totally confused about closing times the whole ride. The fact that I had only a vague idea when I started didn't help.
Assuming I go back next year, this is the main issue I want to address. I had very minor trouble with navigation once, resulting in a trip down the wrong road off of a roundabout. I think my bonus distance was about 50 feet. I was a little worried about being lost a couple of times, but I was always on route when that happened. A gps showing a map would have made me feel more comfortable, that's for sure. But I don't think it's realistic that most of riders will use anything other than the arrows.
Assuming I go back next year, this is the main issue I want to address. I had very minor trouble with navigation once, resulting in a trip down the wrong road off of a roundabout. I think my bonus distance was about 50 feet. I was a little worried about being lost a couple of times, but I was always on route when that happened. A gps showing a map would have made me feel more comfortable, that's for sure. But I don't think it's realistic that most of riders will use anything other than the arrows.
(The cue sheets got wet at Dreux, and then a little mold set in when I didn't take my cue sheets out of the flap for a while after getting home.
)
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08-24-18, 12:14 AM
#57
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Wow, that cue sheet is quite a thing. Do they give this out prior to the event (perhaps online)? One thing I like to do for brevets is to study the sheet and try to plot the route with RideWithGPS, and then look out for points of interest along the route (food, water, shelter, etc) and mark them down also, so that they show up on my Garmin's cue sheet. Of course, a complete route (on Strava or RwGPS, for example) would be even better though I don't know if they do such a thing for PBP.
08-24-18, 06:54 AM
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yes, it is available ahead of time. They email it to you when your registration is complete. I found the one from 2011. I suppose that the incomprehensible part for me is the road names. If you figure that out, you're good. The good thing about French roads is that, for the most part, there is no redundancy. If you are in town X and the next town you want to go to is town Y, there is one road to take.
08-24-18, 08:47 AM
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I'm also not good with road names and rely more on the turn directions; together with distance, they're usually good enough to plot a route in RwGPS. This PBP one though..... might take some heavy deciphering to work out. Wonder why they didn't also provide the graphical tulips format?
08-24-18, 11:26 AM
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Plotting it (or parts of it) on rwgps probably would be very helpful to get a feeling for the cue sheet. I have looked at this person's routes a number of times https://ridewithgps.com/events/11783-pbp-2015
The scheme is, you look on the cue sheet for the next road and when you get to that road you take it. I think the number of times where you have a choice of which way to go is relatively small. Then you look for the next place you are going and head towards that. It's always pretty easy to tell what the next town is from the cue sheet. The fact that the route is pretty much a straight east-west line doesn't hurt either.
Looks like the road naming system in Malaysia is very similar to France.
The scheme is, you look on the cue sheet for the next road and when you get to that road you take it. I think the number of times where you have a choice of which way to go is relatively small. Then you look for the next place you are going and head towards that. It's always pretty easy to tell what the next town is from the cue sheet. The fact that the route is pretty much a straight east-west line doesn't hurt either.
Looks like the road naming system in Malaysia is very similar to France.
08-31-18, 09:52 AM
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I survived PBP back in 1979 and 1983. I considered myself a marginal rider and managed to survive by careful planning. Here are some of the tricks that got me through.
1. I got "adopted" by a French cycling club. I wore a New York Cycling Club jersey as a conversation starter. The French riders were curious and friendly, when I explained that I just wanted to finish and not come in first. I spoke French well enough to keep up a conversation. They offered to let me ride with them. The French clubs are very disciplined regarding pelotons. This was a life saver in 1979 because there was a stiff headwind for the first 3 days. I did not realize the course was hilly, until I rode in 1983.
2. I planned my pace and sleeping times. This would work out to 60 hours of cycling, if I could average a 20 kph pace. The remaining 30 hours would be divided between meals and sleep. The sleep would be reduced, if I could not maintain the 20 kph average (I could not). I took the cue sheet and wrote the expected passage time for each entry based on that 20 kph pace. I chose each day's starting time so that I'd have a minimum of a 2 hour margin at the first control. This was to allow for road repairs.
At one point I told the French club that I'd have to drop back because we were going too fast. They were puzzled. I showed them my marked cue sheet. I explained that I would not have the endurance, if we continued at the current pace. They slowed down. I met them 4 years later at the bike check. They had marked their cue sheets the same way I had.
3. I carried space blankets because my metabolism fell so low when sleeping that I had chills. I also carried an air mattress.
That air mattress got me a second night's sleep in 1983. There was a crowd trying to get into the gym at Carhaix. The person in charge explained that they had no more gym mats and that the riders could not sleep on the bare floor. No amount of arguing would convince him to let the riders sleep on that bare floor. I ran to my bike and brought the air mattress into the gym. I showed the air mattress to the person in charge and asked whether I could sleep there. He agreed that I could sleep there with my air mattress. The Frenchmen congratulated me on my foresight. It still cost 10F ($2) to sleep in Carhaix.
4. I managed a mini baggage drop off between Charhaix-Brest-Carhaix. I packed a bag within a bag. The smaller bag contained tools that I might need on the road. The rest contained clothes, toiletries, the air mattress, etc. I left the larger bag with one of the controllers at the Carhaix control on my way out. I picked it up on my way back. That allowed my to "fly" up the steps at Landerneau with a much lighter bike.
5. I avoided long food lines at the controls. I went to a local restaurant in the town where I would be served more quickly. Several restaurants had signs to their regular patrons that stating priority would be given to PBP riders.
6. I carried dextrose tablets to get brain brain functioning, if I were hallucinating due to sleep deprivation. It was a one time shot, to get me to a safe place where I could sleep out of danger.
7. I got a wrist watch with an alarm on it, so I could take a 10 or 15 minute nap on the side of the road. The alarm was supposed to prevent that from becoming a 1 hour nap.
1. I got "adopted" by a French cycling club. I wore a New York Cycling Club jersey as a conversation starter. The French riders were curious and friendly, when I explained that I just wanted to finish and not come in first. I spoke French well enough to keep up a conversation. They offered to let me ride with them. The French clubs are very disciplined regarding pelotons. This was a life saver in 1979 because there was a stiff headwind for the first 3 days. I did not realize the course was hilly, until I rode in 1983.
2. I planned my pace and sleeping times. This would work out to 60 hours of cycling, if I could average a 20 kph pace. The remaining 30 hours would be divided between meals and sleep. The sleep would be reduced, if I could not maintain the 20 kph average (I could not). I took the cue sheet and wrote the expected passage time for each entry based on that 20 kph pace. I chose each day's starting time so that I'd have a minimum of a 2 hour margin at the first control. This was to allow for road repairs.
At one point I told the French club that I'd have to drop back because we were going too fast. They were puzzled. I showed them my marked cue sheet. I explained that I would not have the endurance, if we continued at the current pace. They slowed down. I met them 4 years later at the bike check. They had marked their cue sheets the same way I had.
3. I carried space blankets because my metabolism fell so low when sleeping that I had chills. I also carried an air mattress.
That air mattress got me a second night's sleep in 1983. There was a crowd trying to get into the gym at Carhaix. The person in charge explained that they had no more gym mats and that the riders could not sleep on the bare floor. No amount of arguing would convince him to let the riders sleep on that bare floor. I ran to my bike and brought the air mattress into the gym. I showed the air mattress to the person in charge and asked whether I could sleep there. He agreed that I could sleep there with my air mattress. The Frenchmen congratulated me on my foresight. It still cost 10F ($2) to sleep in Carhaix.
4. I managed a mini baggage drop off between Charhaix-Brest-Carhaix. I packed a bag within a bag. The smaller bag contained tools that I might need on the road. The rest contained clothes, toiletries, the air mattress, etc. I left the larger bag with one of the controllers at the Carhaix control on my way out. I picked it up on my way back. That allowed my to "fly" up the steps at Landerneau with a much lighter bike.
5. I avoided long food lines at the controls. I went to a local restaurant in the town where I would be served more quickly. Several restaurants had signs to their regular patrons that stating priority would be given to PBP riders.
6. I carried dextrose tablets to get brain brain functioning, if I were hallucinating due to sleep deprivation. It was a one time shot, to get me to a safe place where I could sleep out of danger.
7. I got a wrist watch with an alarm on it, so I could take a 10 or 15 minute nap on the side of the road. The alarm was supposed to prevent that from becoming a 1 hour nap.
08-31-18, 06:39 PM
#63
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I googled the "dextrose tablets" before the post. There appear to be American-made varieties as well. I have not tested them to see if they are as fast acting as the German variety.
09-23-18, 09:10 PM
#64
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So should we talk about actual PBP 2019 here, or start a new thread for it?
Anyway, one thing I wanted to ask is about pre-qualifiers. I did some searching around, the official ACP website still has the brochure for PBP 2015 so that's no help. I've found others talking about pre-registration starting at 14 January 2019 (for 1200k and 1000k finishers), 28 January for 600k finishers, and so on... but does anyone know where we can get actual official info (and in English)?
Anyway, one thing I wanted to ask is about pre-qualifiers. I did some searching around, the official ACP website still has the brochure for PBP 2015 so that's no help. I've found others talking about pre-registration starting at 14 January 2019 (for 1200k and 1000k finishers), 28 January for 600k finishers, and so on... but does anyone know where we can get actual official info (and in English)?
09-24-18, 05:50 AM
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The official rules aren't going to be released until January. This document gives the dates. I remember there being some typos in the English translation, but I forget what they are:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...c2YmQ2ZDA5NDBi
French:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alj...T7vTKO2Xz/view
It doesn't reflect the change of starting point.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...c2YmQ2ZDA5NDBi
French:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alj...T7vTKO2Xz/view
It doesn't reflect the change of starting point.
09-24-18, 11:45 AM
#66
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Our local rando club has the same information about pre-registration posted in this pdf. From the info on the official site it seems to me that preregistration just holds you a spot while you do the 2019 SR series... might be worth it if a lot of people that didn't do a 2018 1000K or SR are going to be trying to get into PBP2019. In the past they've never had to turn riders away but with the growing popularity of randonneuring maybe 2019 will be the year? I am still not sure if I want to do it but I will probably preregister on the 28th since I didn't do a 1000 or 1200 this year.
09-24-18, 12:45 PM
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I recall there is a fee to preregister with the balance due sometime in June. Someone that rode in 2015 can verify. I dnf'ed my 600k in 2015, so didn't register. But I don't remember preregistering either.
09-25-18, 09:13 AM
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Thanks for the info, looks like most people are getting the information from the same PDF. Looks like I'll wait until next year to see what steps to take, but unless the fee for preregistration is exorbitantly high I'll probably do it, then figure out logistics afterwards.
09-27-18, 11:46 AM
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it turns out I did preregister in 2015. The emails I got from the ACP mentioned payment, but none of them say how much it was. Must not have been that much or I would remember 
I have seen people complaining that this is the only document they have issued, but I'm pretty sure that's normal. The "dossier" with all the details only gets sent out after you complete the second step of registration.
I have seen people complaining that this is the only document they have issued, but I'm pretty sure that's normal. The "dossier" with all the details only gets sent out after you complete the second step of registration.
10-09-18, 10:16 AM
#70
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As I continue to dither about my plans for next season, a question: when the rules for personal support say "may meet you only at controls",does anyone know what that means for the not-quite-control stops? (Specifically, Saint-Nicolas-du-Pélem.) I'm not planning on having a full-on support crew; I think that's antithetical to how I want to enjoy randonneuring. But I am not opposed to arranging* a drop bag** and think a: that's probably about the right point for me to want to sleep, especially with the start change.
* My husband has never been to France and would like to see Paris, so this would be a personal arrangement rather than paying a service.
** I will be a much happier human if I can change my sports bra as close to once a day as possible, but my preferred sports bras are gargantuan underwire monstrosities that carrying even one would significantly increase my need of bike luggage space, haha. Bike shorts are also bulky but they bend/fold up better.
* My husband has never been to France and would like to see Paris, so this would be a personal arrangement rather than paying a service.
** I will be a much happier human if I can change my sports bra as close to once a day as possible, but my preferred sports bras are gargantuan underwire monstrosities that carrying even one would significantly increase my need of bike luggage space, haha. Bike shorts are also bulky but they bend/fold up better.
10-09-18, 11:45 AM
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I am pretty sure you can get private support there. I'll try to remember to dig through the dossier they sent out to see if it mentions it.
10-09-18, 03:14 PM
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Okay, there is no route listed for support cars to go to St Nick, so I think that means you can't be supported there. If you can make it to Carhaix, that would be better, although I think that Loudiac would be really interesting
10-09-18, 08:17 PM
#73
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Aw, shucks. Probably why that was the only one of those that I could find an un-fully-booked hotel in. (It's fully refundable, so I booked it, but that seems unlikely to work for my purposes.) Thanks for digging that out.
Last edited by antimonysarah; 10-09-18 at 08:25 PM.
10-10-18, 09:36 AM
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It isn't essential to book this early. You probably have more choices though.
there are some things, like hotels, that are booked up by travel agents. The person that did a lot of that in the U.S. retired, but I don't know if anyone took over for him. He used to book a lot of hotels along the route.
there are some things, like hotels, that are booked up by travel agents. The person that did a lot of that in the U.S. retired, but I don't know if anyone took over for him. He used to book a lot of hotels along the route.